Playstation's Serious side Fighting Disease

[Elpon]

You're implying the PS3 is only a carrier of the processor and makes no use of it. If 1 of the cells in the chip breaks, the entire PS3 will not work. Like all processors, the mother board inside the PS3 is designed exclusively for the chip it carries.

Didn't say anything about it not using the cell technology. You read all of that on your own. Why would one cell breaking cause the entire sysyem to not work? I thought the system was already not running all the cells at once.

You're implying the PS3 can work without the cell processor.

Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that the PS3 uses the cell technology, that's it. It's the cell technology that is doing the work, the PS3 is just the product that allows the researches to harness it. I'm sure that as the technology develops, the cell technology will develop to a point where the networked PS3s are no longer needed. More powerful supercomputers will develop that can use their own forms of cell technology.

The Cell processor is being mass prouduced and sold under the form of the PS3. It is the heart and soul of the machine, without it, the PS3 would be more like the 360

No without a processor it would be a brick.

I don't think anyone can offer you "positive and advanced feedback" because you seem to see any feedback as negative.

 

[Garvin]

After the failures of the PS2 through normal use (Yes, I love the PS2, but it is fragile), I'd never leave a PS3 on 24/7 if I owned one. If I wanted to do folding@home, I'd just download and run it on my PC, laptop, and junker storage computer, for far better results than PS3, probably... (http://folding.stanford.edu/)

 

[Anttaru]

Didn't say anything about it not using the cell technology. You read all of that on your own. Why would one cell breaking cause the entire sysyem to not work? I thought the system was already not running all the cells at once.

The cells are running at 20%

Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that the PS3 uses the cell technology, that's it. It's the cell technology that is doing the work, the PS3 is just the product that allows the researches to harness it.

before you said

Not the PS3, the cells.
The PS3 is only acting as a carrier of the cell technology, using it and "putting it out there".

The PS3 is not "acting as a carrier" It cannot function without the chip. When the PS3 get's put to rest, it's very unlikely we'll salvage the processors from the systems no longer in service. (Then again who am i to know this) The PS3 will make use of it's horse power. Otherwords it will end up getting crushed. And for the record. The PS3 is all about the cell processor. The Motherboard, like all motherboards is designed for the processor, the surrounding shell inside and out is all about the cell processor, If the cell processor were to change, so would most of the systems CPU hardware.

Saying "PS3 and Cell processor", seperates the cell, from it's costome made hardware does it not ? The Processor is part Sony part IBM part Toshiba. All 3 companies do make computers. Sony and Toshiba makes the same shit. in some areas, Sony i'd say is more advanced than Toshiba, IBM is cold ass, and is probably more advanced than boath of these other 2.

The Point is the development of this processor is all on Sony. The prouduction of the processor is on Sony, and it being put out there now is on Sony. Which is another reason, so to speak, you can't divided the processor from the PS3.

I'm sure that as the technology develops, the cell technology will develop to a point where the networked PS3s are no longer needed. More powerful supercomputers will develop that can use their own forms of cell technology.

Well let's see. For starters

-1 PS3 doing 2 trillion calculations. Times, Lets start with a mear 10,000 other PS3's

-Not to mention the rest of the hundreads of thousands PS3's "Working seperatly" to submit it's individual render tasks.

-It's better than 1 super computer doing it alone, and it will be, probably until the end. Making something faster does not replace the PS3 so easily, you're still getting numbers we don't even understnad in such fractions.

-This does not cancel the efforts made on PC, to remove the PC is to slow down more of what exceeds super computer capabilities.

No without a processor it would be a brick.

I don't think anyone can offer you "positive and advanced feedback" because you seem to see any feedback as negative.

Elpon.... I don't see all feedback as negative, just Tagrineth, you gotta admit, that guy has no logical reason to curse me like he does. He just comes in here using the F against me cause he hasn't anything better to say.
But you are different than that, I don't know if you're words don't come out right, or if you're sick in the head or what. You just say things that sets the train to derail.
Like saying you want to clearify and confirm that everyone here is implying the PS3 will save the world. That would be something totally different, do you not think so ?
Or saying the PS3 will become nothing and and replaced, which kinda makes me want to cuff you in the back of the skull.

 

[Shintroy]

Someone sum this up for me.
I dont feel like readin 5 pages of something i probably already don't not know.
Really summarize this thread into one paragraph.

Oh yeah i almost forgot :O ;O :O

 

[Tagrineth]

Anttaru, you say PS3 is using Cell at "20%". Then you later say it's doing "2 trillion calculations".

1. PS3's Cell is an 8 PE unit with one disabled. Sounds more like ~88% to me.

2. PS3's Cell is rated at a peak of 210 GFLOPs. That's 210 billion floating point calculations per second. Billion, with a B. Not Trillion. Also, note, that this number is always unachievable in actual operation, especially when looking at a multi-processor system. Memory inefficiencies and communication inefficiencies, combined with difficulty of programming for seven different threads at once, will significantly lower that number in practice.


Oh, and I curse at you because you're thick as fuck and don't listen to anything I fucking say. Putting PS3 on a pedestal like this and then calling out MY console bias...

 

[Elpon]

before you said

Not the PS3, the cells.
The PS3 is only acting as a carrier of the cell technology, using it and "putting it out there".

The PS3 is not "acting as a carrier" It cannot function without the chip. When the PS3 get's put to rest, it's very unlikely we'll salvage the processors from the systems no longer in service. (Then again who am i to know this) The PS3 will make use of it's horse power. Otherwords it will end up getting crushed. And for the record. The PS3 is all about the cell processor. The Motherboard, like all motherboards is designed for the processor, the surrounding shell inside and out is all about the cell processor, If the cell processor were to change, so would most of the systems CPU hardware.

You even quote me and still ignore how i already said it uses it, here I'll even bold it for you. This is why I hate arguing with you because your reading comprehension is abysmal.

Saying "PS3 and Cell processor", seperates the cell, from it's costome made hardware does it not ? The Processor is part Sony part IBM part Toshiba. All 3 companies do make computers. Sony and Toshiba makes the same shit. in some areas, Sony i'd say is more advanced than Toshiba, IBM is cold ass, and is probably more advanced than boath of these other 2.

They are two separate things if you really think about it. The PS3 is a name brand product that people are buying base on the success of the PSone and PS2. The cell technology is a new and possibly revolutionary processor that the PS3 uses (bolded again for you) and introduces it to the market. Yeah the thing that makes the PS3 the way it is is the cell technology but your still not getting what is being said.

The Point is the development of this processor is all on Sony. The production of the processor is on Sony, and it being put out there now is on Sony. Which is another reason, so to speak, you can't divided the processor from the PS3.

Yes but the cell technology will not always be exclusive to the PS3. It will make it's way to other products.

Well let's see. For starters

-1 PS3 doing 2 trillion calculations. Times, Lets start with a mear 10,000 other PS3's

-Not to mention the rest of the hundreds of thousands PS3's "Working separately" to submit it's individual render tasks.

-It's better than 1 super computer doing it alone, and it will be, probably until the end. Making something faster does not replace the PS3 so easily, you're still getting numbers we don't even understand in such fractions.

-This does not cancel the efforts made on PC, to remove the PC is to slow down more of what exceeds super computer capabilities.

OK, let's go back to my original quote and bold some more

I'm sure that as the technology develops, the cell technology will develop to a point where the networked PS3s are no longer needed. More powerful supercomputers will develop that can use their own forms of cell technology.

Supercomputers. Plural. Multiple. If they make one they can make several and network those together. The PS3 could probably still be used but if they develop the technology they can create machines that could take the place of 100 PS3s. Just network multiple machines and the PS3 takes the place of a standard PC that uses the program today.

Elpon.... I don't see all feedback as negative, just Tagrineth, you gotta admit, that guy has no logical reason to curse me like he does. He just comes in here using the F against me cause he hasn't anything better to say.
But you are different than that, I don't know if you're words don't come out right, or if you're sick in the head or what. You just say things that sets the train to derail.
Like saying you want to clarify and confirm that everyone here is implying the PS3 will save the world. That would be something totally different, do you not think so ?
Or saying the PS3 will become nothing and and replaced, which kinda makes me want to cuff you in the back of the skull.

I think Tagrineth is just expressing the feeling we all get when arguing with you. It's really like trying to argue with a wall. Not just saying that you are unwavering in your beliefs, but it's physically like trying to argue with a wall. You can shout all you want at it but it doesn't understand a word coming out your mouth because it's a wall.
My first post was a sarcastic remark about how it seems like all those with a e-rection for the PS3 will find any excuse or little tid bit to glorify the console. It was a joke. It's clear this went straight over your head and how your obsessing over why I can say one thing about the PS3 saving humanity and another why it will eventually be replaced. So stop before you hurt yourself.
So if you really really really feel like replying to this, can you do me the biggest favor in the world? Don't dissect my post. If you find it all offensive or wrong just say what your going to say in a nice tidy paragraph, wall-o-text if neccessary. I know what I said and I don't need it constantly regurgitated back to me.

 

[Westyle]

I'm not much better.. but I feel I'm to f*cked up to be of any help x.x

I think I'm far too fucked up TO be any help to anyone

Not that I'm any better.. I recognize it and that's it. I just don't think (or more I know it) I am useful to help anyone or anything.

Is someone having a crisis?

 

[RoM]

Or saying the PS3 will become nothing and and replaced, which kinda makes me want to cuff you in the back of the skull.

I fail to understand this statement.

News flash: consoles become nothing and get replaced.

While this whole thing with the fold@home is a nice yuppy selling point so they can brag their consoles are 'contributing to mankind' to the joneses it's really nothing more than that; more smoke and mirrors for people with more money than sense, go sony.

 

[Strid]

you still don't get it do you?

Yes, is a console system, but what Anttaru is trying to say is the CONSOLE's Processor Cell can do calculation faster then any high end PC out there, it can be benfit helping the Folding@home crap by downloading their Software and installed into the PS3 and when PS3 is on and not in use, instead of wasting electic bills and your PS3 life spam, use those wasted hour for more life saving task

We all KNOW IS A CONSOLE! we're discussing about the power of the Cell Processor that may help researcher find a cures

I don't think they make a toolbag big enough to fit you in it I pitty your collective data processing skills.

 

[Shintroy]

Someone sum this up for me.
I dont feel like readin 5 pages of something i probably already don't not know.
Really summarize this thread into one paragraph.

Oh yeah i almost forgot :O ;O :O

lllll

 

[Anttaru]

Anttaru, you say PS3 is using Cell at "20%". Then you later say it's doing "2 trillion calculations".

I mentioned it's using 20% yes. And i also mentioned in another thread that it reaches near 2 trillion in 6 seconds.

1. PS3's Cell is an 8 PE unit with one disabled. Sounds more like ~88% to me.

The cells arn't equal in speed. I get my information from Michael Gschwind. He's the lead R&D at IBM who pretty much is responsible for how the cell turned out.

The article i posted earlier stated that the cell will be used in an upcoming super computer IBM is making. Said to do 1,000 per second. So if the cell is running at 80% in the PS3 like you say it is, then that is more than we can hope for now isn't it.

2. PS3's Cell is rated at a peak of 210 GFLOPs. That's 210 billion floating point calculations per second. Billion, with a B. Not Trillion.

Ok but you never mentioned it's DDR to memory did you ? No you didin't, plus the chip connects itself to XDR which is a totally different fourm of memory.
I'm talking about a new kind of Hyperthreading here. The Billions is only a base to get amped up.

CPU: Cell Processor

PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz

1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance << TeraFLOP ! Hows that beotch ?
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)

Memory:

256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth:

Main RAM: 25.6GB/s
VRAM: 22.4GB/s
RSX: 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB: 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance: 2 TFLOPS



Oh and other official resources say the cell processor alone can to up to level 16 TeraFlops.

For those of you that have no clue, Tera represents 1 trillion.

And you say....

Also, note, that this number is always unachievable in actual operation, especially when looking at a multi-processor system.

As if it would be easier to do on a processor flying solo. Is that what i'm hearing ?

Memory inefficiencies and communication inefficiencies, combined with difficulty of programming for seven different threads at once, will significantly lower that number in practice.

I'll stay close to the developers word if that's ok with you.

Oh, and I curse at you because you're thick as fuck and don't listen to anything I fucking say.

Dude, you can't school me when you're talking shit. There are the correct spects for the PS3 cell. Read it, then go stare at yourself in the mirror.

Putting PS3 on a pedestal like this and then calling out MY console bias...

Um. The PS3 is on a pedestal, i never put it there, i only choose to speak of it's technology, and what else it will be doing.

"You" say i'm raising it, to add as a 2nd excuse to attack me. I haven't even started with you, and believe me Tagrineth it's a side of me that can get so ugly, i have mercy on my enemies before i even see who they are. I have been kind enough not to cast insults like a child, and don't hate me for thinking you're full of shit either.

Go teach you're mindless sheep whatever. I choose to follow what i read and see from realiable sources. Not from some pissy stranger i have come to know in the off topic boards

Then you come in here barking at me from post 1. Then after i show you the way out, you accuse me of calling out you're console bias ? I don't even know what the hell you're console bias is, and if i cross it, who freakin cares ? It's you're choice to make it personal.

I post so rarely, i make new threads not so often, this being the 16th one. And this is the 2nd one in a row Tagrineth, where i end up having to keep the thread clean. I'm not trying to be cocky or anything, i do enjoy our encounters to be honest. Learn to see my point of views, I only dislike you're point of views after i examine them very carefully.

 

[Vandoura]

Nice come back Anttaru

*waiting for Tagrineth for a come back* :O XD

 

[Anttaru]

You even quote me and still ignore how i already said it uses it, here I'll even bold it for you. This is why I hate arguing with you because your reading comprehension is abysmal.

The PS3 is only acting as a carrier of the cell technology, using it and "putting it out there".

You overlook the fact the Cell processor originated "for" the PS3. It was Sony's idea and money that powered the colaberation between Sony Toshiba and IBM. In the end the Cell processor is too good to just put aside when the PS3 is done.

They are two separate things if you really think about it. The PS3 is a name brand product that people are buying base on the success of the PSone and PS2. The cell technology is a new and possibly revolutionary processor that the PS3 uses (bolded again for you) and introduces it to the market. Yeah the thing that makes the PS3 the way it is is the cell technology but your still not getting what is being said.

You are right. Playstation is a brand. It's predasessors does pave a road for it's successors. That is no secret. What everyone does exspect is something better than the last. Not everyone needs to know the specs, but what they will get is overkill. On a personal note. I love power. Motors, computers, even a whoop ass fishing rod.

I'm not assuming the PS3 will automatically have awsome games because of the CPU inside. Everyone knows the Sony brand, Yes everything they make is really nice. Playstations success is that of the 3rd party developers.

Yes but the cell technology will not always be exclusive to the PS3. It will make it's way to other products.

Sony Toshiba and IBM ended up with something too good to just pass. It's going to be implanted in alot of technology from Cell phones to other home entertainment centers. Toshiba is already making it record 49 mpeg2 videos at the same time. Watching multiple channels on a big screen is too much to ask for, But the cell processor is doing it already.

OK, let's go back to my original quote and bold some more

Supercomputers. Plural. Multiple. If they make one they can make several and network those together. The PS3 could probably still be used but if they develop the technology they can create machines that could take the place of 100 PS3s. Just network multiple machines and the PS3 takes the place of a standard PC that uses the program today.

To put my original answer in another perspective...

Making a more advanced technology will be better. But it does not replace. Just because the PS3 is faster, does not mean it's time to for the PC's to dissconnect. The whole process is faster (which is better) if the PC's were to stay put.

Add those new machines to the service the same way.

The Network is not a constant stream or it's not the PS3's actually combining physically. It's each machine working individually, then submitting the completed files. The Server is responsible for sending out the requested tasks to selected CPU's connected to the system. the completed files from various machines from around the world will "click together" given each file has it's own unique name, the peices will be put together as easy as you or i can put together a 2 peice puzzle. The end result is time ripping.

I think Tagrineth is just expressing the feeling we all get when arguing with you. It's really like trying to argue with a wall. Not just saying that you are unwavering in your beliefs, but it's physically like trying to argue with a wall. You can shout all you want at it but it doesn't understand a word coming out your mouth because it's a wall.

Sorry i don't react how you'd want me to. I try to be kind in my posts usually. I don't reconize you're persona as friendly. I do recall a tiff we had before. Off the top of my head, maybe it was induring a time i was scraping with Tagrineth and you were siding him. So don't exspect me to face you without a sheild.

My first post was a sarcastic remark about how it seems like all those with a e-rection for the PS3 will find any excuse or little tid bit to glorify the console.

That kinda strikes me down. Not saying i have cum running down my leg or anything, but the PS3 specs is very shocking.

I won't bull shit you. I love all consoles, without one the next is even better. I do love Sony the most, and what the PS3 has under the hood is very impressive. The release is new, the news and updates for it has yet to come. It being mass prouduced and put out there is a special process that is dangerous to Sony.

It was a joke. It's clear this went straight over your head and how your obsessing over why I can say one thing about the PS3 saving humanity and another why it will eventually be replaced. So stop before you hurt yourself.

You trying to clear the original topic of disscussion as a joke will not be taken as one if it is not presented as a joke. Saying people are testifying that the PS3, will kinda rewrite the subject. And if people think you achieved clearity, it would make the rest of us look dunce, due to the false reality of it all.

Saying the PS3 will save humanity is different. What the participation of the PS3 is doing his "helping" humanity. Basically we'll see more medical breakthroughs in our lifetime thanks to computers.

There is no need to replace. Just add more, even if they are better or worse. You don't understand that concept. You can talk about better if you wish. go ahead.

So if you really really really feel like replying to this, can you do me the biggest favor in the world? Don't dissect my post. If you find it all offensive or wrong just say what your going to say in a nice tidy paragraph, wall-o-text if neccessary. I know what I said and I don't need it constantly regurgitated back to me.

Oh funny, you should have mentioned this in the 1st paragraph. Fullfulling you're request would have been enlightning, but none the less. I don't feel i was being as defensive this time.

The machines will advance in the future, that is no secret. Sony has already demonstrated some freaky ass A.I. on lesser hardware than what is being used today. I respond to correct you in some degrees. There is no doubt what you said will come.

I understand what you say. I see it more as Sony is a successful brand + the Cell processor = increadable harmony.

We boath see. The Market desires the PS3 regardless what is under the hood. What happened is Sony outdid themselves, still many don't know this, which could be very pleasant for them when the developers who make PS3 games, start to get freaky with the system.

Companies like INTEL is going to have to do something they never really had to do before, and that is go to War for the processor of choice and the survival of the brand. Cause in the end, it's all about the market. And i'd be glad to see what wonderful things will come out of that.

 

[Anttaru]

I fail to understand this statement.

News flash: consoles become nothing and get replaced.

We are disscussing the effects of @home productivity on the network scale. Not about the end of the upcoming. Of coarse they get replaced, but the cause in effect, replacing dosn't make the rendering any better. Adding more computers, old current and new is what makes it better. We all know the PS3 will get put to sleep one day. The @home will gain more speed and power, but even so, the amount they will loose from the PS3 leaving the scene is also a great loss for the production.

Above all things. A machine that will kick for a lifetime is nothing to be disgusted in. I doubt the PS3 is that machine. But that would be the ultimate.

While this whole thing with the fold@home is a nice yuppy selling point so they can brag their consoles are 'contributing to mankind' to the joneses it's really nothing more than that; more smoke and mirrors for people with more money than sense, go sony.

What do you think Sony is hiding from the consumers ?

 

[RoM]

What do you think Sony is hiding from the consumers ?

What you fail to grasp is that PCs run @home not only with more frequency (when was the last time you restarted?) and for longer intervals than your average console even stays on to play in it's average lifetime aside from that PC tech is only increasing and it's not to far of a leap to say that the lack of console-hippies out there fighting diseases with their precious world changing PS3s will not be overlapped by people who have and run PCs on a constant basis. To be frank no one's going to feel this, not even the jedis, when they leave the scene.

As i stated; the statement i quoted you on i failed to understand, much obliged for the clarification.

I don't think sony's hiding anything from it's consumers. Past experience with sony products and a little fact searching on the internet can tell you everything you need to know about this round of the console wars. What i was alluding to was that I think sony's consumers, particularly the rabid fanboy base in this case, are hiding from quite alot. More precisely i think little tidbits like this and the reaction the function is supposed to provoke is nothing more than grasping at straws for any kind of plus for the late comer of the season. Seeing as how that's not the topic i'll respectfully bow out at this point, i'd really rather not derail the technical jargon that actually brings substance to the topic.

 

[Shintroy]

lol nah your all wrong the ps3 is now in 3rd place in the CWars

Which means thier stuff insides is fail
Which means the Wii and X360 is better and hafe better technologics
Which means in an alternate universe the 360 is the ekwivilent of the We and ekquals the pie of the ps3 diveyed'd by 10 =

ps4

 

[Strid]

lolmedicalmartyr AND...
























































GRILL! (probably the better use for it)

 

[Elpon]

I'm just going to pick this out. Most of your post was well formed and thought out so I don't have any problems with it. This though....strikes me as odd

You trying to clear the original topic of disscussion as a joke will not be taken as one if it is not presented as a joke. Saying people are testifying that the PS3, will kinda rewrite the subject. And if people think you achieved clearity, it would make the rest of us look dunce, due to the false reality of it all.

I laughed at this. "A joke will not be taken as a one if it is not presented as a joke"? So how should a joke be presented to show it's a joke? Should I put a big "THIS IS A JOKE, WATCH FOR PUNCHLINE"? Or maybe at the end of the joke I should put a "bah dum dum <cymbal>". Or I could use a good old /joke or /sarcasm.
....If you can't recognize a joke or ask for a joke to labeled...wow..just wow...

 

[Anttaru]

If you can't recognize a joke or ask for a joke to labeled...wow..just wow...

You're not the joker, you're the joke.

Ok, go ahead and act surprised that i have a natural distaste for you.

For a moment i thought you were gonna say something constructive, now i just want to end our exchanges with silence. I have no desire to talk about our relations in detail. Simply put, i think you're choices are awful, and extremely bad taste.

 

[Anttaru]

What you fail to grasp is that PCs run @home not only with more frequency (when was the last time you restarted?) and for longer intervals than your average console even stays on to play in it's average lifetime aside from that PC tech is only increasing and it's not to far of a leap to say that the lack of console-hippies out there fighting diseases with their precious world changing PS3s will not be overlapped by people who have and run PCs on a constant basis. To be frank no one's going to feel this, not even the jedis, when they leave the scene.

Interesting points. We'll have to wait and see what kind of results come in. If there is much change to be taking place in this feild. It's up to the PS3 owners on this wide scale reception.

Why is it taking so long for the simulations to complete ? Not everyone involves themselves with @home on the PC. None the less you cannot deny having this automated on a commercial machine will indeed increase the speed of the output. it's not a matter of replacement between PC and PS3. It's a matter of colaberation.

I don't think sony's hiding anything from it's consumers. Past experience with sony products and a little fact searching on the internet can tell you everything you need to know about this round of the console wars. What i was alluding to was that I think sony's consumers, particularly the rabid fanboy base in this case, are hiding from quite alot. More precisely i think little tidbits like this and the reaction the function is supposed to provoke is nothing more than grasping at straws for any kind of plus for the late comer of the season. Seeing as how that's not the topic i'll respectfully bow out at this point, i'd really rather not derail the technical jargon that actually brings substance to the topic.

Market scheme and the delay of mass prouduction saves Sony money, and promotes the prouduct just the same. No doubt Sony learned this from the N64 that sold out a million in 1 day (At the time that was the record, still might be, but not sure). PSX took 37 weeks to sell 1 million upon it's launch.

Releasing the goods during a time when the rich get richer and the poor become more poor is the time any company would want to release their primary prouduct.

Remember when Microsoft was accused of releasing the 360 too soon. I wouldn't be able to confirm if they would have 160+ games at this point if they hadn't had an early release. But they are going strong against Nintendo and Sony right now.

I think this round of console wars is going to be the most explosive console war we've ever seen. At this point in time Microsoft is the only one going stable while the PS3 and Wii are still under the looking glass, this being their 1st week in the people's hands and all. Even in the peoples hands the PS3 still needs time, unlike the Wii. Many would agree, now is not the time to buy a PS3. As always what determines the consoles success is the games. As a machine, the PS3 undoubtly is the most flexable, most impressive hardware, and how it takes part in the @home activity is riding on the owners of the system.