The other night after finishing rank 5 I was bored and was thinking about farming when an LS mate of mine /telled me and told me that the party he was in was going to need a replacement for him. I was hesitant at first since he was a lvl 44 pld and I was a lvl 41 pld with 3k tnl but I was bored so I headed there. Well, once i got there I say "Hello!" everyone else replies and then 2 ppl say "I gtg"... well wtf? So we start looking for members and cant really find em till we find a nin/war and a rdm/whm. Woot! We needed a puller and we told the ninja that I would tank since the Drg in the pt sed he was sure to pull hate away. She says ok, and I saw she was rank 10. "Thank god and experienced player" i thought and we proceeded to fight. First few battles went well, and she took no damage b/c I voked off her and held hate. Then she says "wait till i start taking damage and then you can voke off me, it'll save the mages some MP that way" so i agree and we try this. After 2 pulls this way (which worked out) I voked off her and flashed, but she then proceeded to cast another Utsusemi: Ni and then try to voke off me. It didnt work, but I lost some hate and the mob went to the drg after a bit. So from that fight on she continually voked off me and spammed ninjitsu to try to keep/pull hate. But guess what, I felt like the noob cuz my highest job is lvl 41 and im only rank 5 and my sub isnt lvled past 20 yet. So i let her try to tank, this was bad b/c hate just kept bouncing around, Drg>nin>war>drg>nin>blm>pld>nin. So after 3 hours I lvl and leave, still feeling rather noobish. But she never asked me to be the back-up tank and voke off when she lost shadows like a blink-tank would do. After this, I realize how completely useless my job is when not tanking but i also realize the fragile hate issue when with a blink tank, the warrior was pulling hate off her and he was using a one-handed sword...So my job was pointless in this party and 1k per hour to me just seems like a such a pointless waste of time that I had to post it here.
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Yeah I am staticing in a Blink PT. I have experienced the hate problems first hand. In order for it to work well enough to hit some high xp/hour you need a THF. Otherwise hate will, like you said, bounce around and nothing but chaos happens.
If done right, a blink tank PT can hit some high chains and do it consistently with a THF there for hate control. Just for the simple fact that the healers use almost 0 cures if the Blink tank is any good.
Of course, eventually even with a THF, a NIN will lose hate without +Enmity gear. That's where I am in there as a NIN sub to blink a few until the NIN can use a WS, Provoke, or we can set up a SATA SC. Our healers actually get bored lol
>< That sucks for the wasted time with horrible xp/hour. Blink Tank + PLD in the same PT = bad
If done right, a blink tank PT can hit some high chains and do it consistently with a THF there for hate control. Just for the simple fact that the healers use almost 0 cures if the Blink tank is any good.
Of course, eventually even with a THF, a NIN will lose hate without +Enmity gear. That's where I am in there as a NIN sub to blink a few until the NIN can use a WS, Provoke, or we can set up a SATA SC. Our healers actually get bored lol
>< That sucks for the wasted time with horrible xp/hour. Blink Tank + PLD in the same PT = bad
I was in a party the other day, where I was pld and had been the established tank for about an hour. We lost a member, and the leader invited a 2nd pld. He was like "Alright! 2 tanks!" and I asked "why did you invite a 2nd pld? I'm tanking fine and holding hate. Pld's make shitty damage dealers." and the other Pld responded "Yeah, why the hell did you invite me?" So he left.
Some people just don't understand Pld.
I've been in parties where I was asked not to tank. I was in a 2 NIN party the other day that wanted to share tanking by bouncing hate off each other, casting utsusemi, and theoretically almost never taking a hit. Sound theory (if you're skilled enough to work it) and I asked "sounds great! what the hell do you need me for?" They couldn't really respond so I stayed anyway. They weren't doing very well keeping hate or taking hate from one another, so I just ended up tanking anyway. We ended up doing just fine as a party and all. It's just really a bad idea to ask a pld into your party if you don't want him to tank.
Some people just don't understand Pld.
I've been in parties where I was asked not to tank. I was in a 2 NIN party the other day that wanted to share tanking by bouncing hate off each other, casting utsusemi, and theoretically almost never taking a hit. Sound theory (if you're skilled enough to work it) and I asked "sounds great! what the hell do you need me for?" They couldn't really respond so I stayed anyway. They weren't doing very well keeping hate or taking hate from one another, so I just ended up tanking anyway. We ended up doing just fine as a party and all. It's just really a bad idea to ask a pld into your party if you don't want him to tank.
Yea, no thf btw;
rdm/whm
blm/whm
nin/war
war/who the hell knows
drg/sam
pld/war (me)
rdm/whm
blm/whm
nin/war
war/who the hell knows
drg/sam
pld/war (me)
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- PrarieBears/Nameless
Being a paladin in a blink tank party is still a great setup. Why? Because your whm technically doesn't have to really cure as much. However, if you already have another voker, then....that's a waste of a spot if their not a pld. A great party would be:
Pld/war
Nin/war
Blm/whm/rdm
whm/whatever
2 damage dealers (I personally prefer dark knights)
When the ninja knows what the heck he's doing, it's great. He casts Utsenemi-> blink->blink->blink->I voke->take damage->take damage-> repeat. I know basically everyone knows the whole process, but a paladin taking damage is FAR better than a plain warrior (sorry warriors). The whm then has less HP to heal thereby extending the chains. However, this is always saying you have a COMPETENT blink tank. Competent means they generally never take damage (unless it's the 2nd vokers' fault. Casting Utsenemi AFTER you voke is a perfect example of it being the Ninja's fault).
I agree two paladins is a big waste. It takes up a damage dealer spot and when I was the secondary paladin in the group, I felt VERY useless and it was so bad. It's a waste of a paladin. They could just be in their own group. I do so little damage I feel very bad just contributing to the madness
Pld/war
Nin/war
Blm/whm/rdm
whm/whatever
2 damage dealers (I personally prefer dark knights)
When the ninja knows what the heck he's doing, it's great. He casts Utsenemi-> blink->blink->blink->I voke->take damage->take damage-> repeat. I know basically everyone knows the whole process, but a paladin taking damage is FAR better than a plain warrior (sorry warriors). The whm then has less HP to heal thereby extending the chains. However, this is always saying you have a COMPETENT blink tank. Competent means they generally never take damage (unless it's the 2nd vokers' fault. Casting Utsenemi AFTER you voke is a perfect example of it being the Ninja's fault).
I agree two paladins is a big waste. It takes up a damage dealer spot and when I was the secondary paladin in the group, I felt VERY useless and it was so bad. It's a waste of a paladin. They could just be in their own group. I do so little damage I feel very bad just contributing to the madness
In my opinion, PLD are not even decent backup tanks ... why ... we are keeping hate too well and it's very hard for another class to take it back (THF can help here). I must add that we deal ridiculous damage. So if you want a backup tank, just invite a WAR or a SAM, they will handle backup tanking AND be able to deal serious damage during the fight.
And for the 2 PLD pty ... lol ... just tried that last WE in Khazam ... one of the crappiest party I have ever experienced. The other PLD was 3 levels higher than me, so I let him tank. I finished in the role of crappy damage dealer (even after using a Mithkabob) and limited support healer. A total waste of a party slot.
And for the 2 PLD pty ... lol ... just tried that last WE in Khazam ... one of the crappiest party I have ever experienced. The other PLD was 3 levels higher than me, so I let him tank. I finished in the role of crappy damage dealer (even after using a Mithkabob) and limited support healer. A total waste of a party slot.
M
masterorion
Guest
first of all, a pt only needs one tank. there is exceptions of the rule when lvling in the dunes and in quifim and possible a part into lvling in kazaam.anything after that, it isnt needed and is more of a waste of a party slot because you have 2 people that do minimal damage(ninja-decent dmg). most useless setup is to have both pld and nin. if nin is gonna be main tank with pld holding hate for less than 15 seconds, your job their is doing absolutely nothing.
Hi Narell ^^/
Now i have to admit that the ninja in this pt was me.
I also felt bad that we were getting such terrible exp (due to the fact that we were fighting soldier crawlers with lvl 45 members in the pt, which was absolutely retarded.) The red/white had not main healed before adn even as a taru was having trouble keeping up with the mp. The blm/whm was not helping her at all. I felt useless in pt because a ninja is frankly a crappy dmg dealer compared to any real damage dealer and so i spammed teh ninjitsu to try and keep pace with the damage numbers of the other melee's.
The pt was a flop because we had a lvl 41 pld and 42 ninja tanking for a 45 pt on mobs that con tough to 45's. We did not have the damage to kill those flies, and as fast as i could pull the stupid crawlers the exp was just terrible _(._.)_
What is absolutely true (and sad) is that after you left we picked up a thf and lo and behold, chain4-5 on damselflies. It was certainly not your fault the party leader didnt know how to build, but i have to say I love ninja and i love blink tanking and my gear is set up for tanking. If i had str+ and attack+ then sure i could go toe to toe with the drg or the war in that pt, but i dont carry that stuff because i'm a tank... I even put as the second line in my seek tag, --->Ninja Tank<--- because when i get stuffed in a pt with a pld its just awful.
It was also my first ninja pt in over a month and a half, and i was very rusty. I apologize for how downright crappy that was, and i hope it doesnt give you a bad impression of me or ninja's in general. If the RDM had been able to heal you, i would have gladly just let you tank, but she couldnt keep up all by herself.
Anyways I'm glad you lvld before you left, and i'm sorry we couldnt have met under beter circumstances.
Now i have to admit that the ninja in this pt was me.
I also felt bad that we were getting such terrible exp (due to the fact that we were fighting soldier crawlers with lvl 45 members in the pt, which was absolutely retarded.) The red/white had not main healed before adn even as a taru was having trouble keeping up with the mp. The blm/whm was not helping her at all. I felt useless in pt because a ninja is frankly a crappy dmg dealer compared to any real damage dealer and so i spammed teh ninjitsu to try and keep pace with the damage numbers of the other melee's.
The pt was a flop because we had a lvl 41 pld and 42 ninja tanking for a 45 pt on mobs that con tough to 45's. We did not have the damage to kill those flies, and as fast as i could pull the stupid crawlers the exp was just terrible _(._.)_
What is absolutely true (and sad) is that after you left we picked up a thf and lo and behold, chain4-5 on damselflies. It was certainly not your fault the party leader didnt know how to build, but i have to say I love ninja and i love blink tanking and my gear is set up for tanking. If i had str+ and attack+ then sure i could go toe to toe with the drg or the war in that pt, but i dont carry that stuff because i'm a tank... I even put as the second line in my seek tag, --->Ninja Tank<--- because when i get stuffed in a pt with a pld its just awful.
It was also my first ninja pt in over a month and a half, and i was very rusty. I apologize for how downright crappy that was, and i hope it doesnt give you a bad impression of me or ninja's in general. If the RDM had been able to heal you, i would have gladly just let you tank, but she couldnt keep up all by herself.
Anyways I'm glad you lvld before you left, and i'm sorry we couldnt have met under beter circumstances.
I know mistaya, it wasnt you that upset me about the party, it was the fact that the party was just a big failure. The group leader shouldn't have even had me in the party with a blink tank. I could tell you knew what you were doing but it was tough b/c the warrior (who would have been a better back-up voke than me) was taking damage hard and it was just a sad experience of a party. I've never been a non-tank in a party with my pld and I assure you that my impression of you isn't bad at all. You were level headed and didn't say anything nasty about the way I was handling myself (I'm sure I acted rather confused) and you didn't give anyone a hard time. Thank you for not being a typical flame boarder and responding to my post by getting offended and replying with "OMG you fucking noob etc etc".
i think it was a war/sam with a 1hand sword and shield -_-; and his problem was he spammed warcry, which is a huge hate magnet, but the little idiot couldnt take dmg, and was only fighting the both of us :/
Incidentally he was the lvl 45 -_-; althought the drg jumping before every battle (i couldnt even get voke off sdjkfa;sdfja;d) was not helping at all. I later left the pt thinking 'good pld, good rdm, moderate blm, omgsucky drg and war'
Incidentally he was the lvl 45 -_-; althought the drg jumping before every battle (i couldnt even get voke off sdjkfa;sdfja;d) was not helping at all. I later left the pt thinking 'good pld, good rdm, moderate blm, omgsucky drg and war'
LOL. Yea, you're right, i think that was his combo. And thank you /bow.
hmm if you have one of those elusive successful blink parties, then what would be the point of having a whm at all? With that kind of party, you're basically trying to eliminate the need to heal. That's pretty much a whm's sole job. so maybe 2 nin/war, a thief with SATA, a rdm, and some dmg dealers. *shrug* could work maybe.
theres a billion reasons to have a whm in a pt...
But for this specific pt, i'll go into detail.
Blink is not 100% effective, lots of mob specials cut right past it (Like the cursed Sphere we were dealing with in this pt.) Also recasting is very difficult when you are being beaten on, constantly slowed (HASTE is a HUGE help to a ninja with the recast time for the blink spells, and only whm have it at the lvl we were in the pt.) Also has a larger mp pool and curega 2 i believe which would have helped a ton.
Even as a nin i will take whm over rdm as main healer, kinda like i would take ranger over dragoon as a damage dealer. rdm has a lot of uses (see some of the threads below) that are much easier to accomplish when NOT main healing.
Successful blink parties are not elusive at all, if the party is set up properly and the people have a clue as to what their job is. I have been in very few terrible pts with ninja/as ninja, but many many awesome ones.
As a side note, Nar was it my imagination or did you do more dmg with your one-hand sword than that war with his....
(Hmm.)
But for this specific pt, i'll go into detail.
Blink is not 100% effective, lots of mob specials cut right past it (Like the cursed Sphere we were dealing with in this pt.) Also recasting is very difficult when you are being beaten on, constantly slowed (HASTE is a HUGE help to a ninja with the recast time for the blink spells, and only whm have it at the lvl we were in the pt.) Also has a larger mp pool and curega 2 i believe which would have helped a ton.
Even as a nin i will take whm over rdm as main healer, kinda like i would take ranger over dragoon as a damage dealer. rdm has a lot of uses (see some of the threads below) that are much easier to accomplish when NOT main healing.
Successful blink parties are not elusive at all, if the party is set up properly and the people have a clue as to what their job is. I have been in very few terrible pts with ninja/as ninja, but many many awesome ones.
As a side note, Nar was it my imagination or did you do more dmg with your one-hand sword than that war with his....
(Hmm.)
He probably had a higher skill with it, as PAL uses one handed swords exclusively (if they know what's good for them) while WAR should use two-handed weapons...
Tyrion said:
This isnt really accurate.
PLD has A ratings in Sword, Club, AND Staff, and a B in G.Sword.
WAR has As in Axe and G.Axe, and Bs in a variety of weapons, such as Dagger, Sword, G.Sword, Polearm. Scythe, Club, and Staff.
With so many high proficiencies, its very situational as to which weapons should be equipped. A smart player in each of these jobs would try to keep as many of these weapons capped as possible, to exploit their different uses.
(Ex. Club does like 100000x more damage to skelletons than Sword)
:shock:
Hmmm. I guess you're right. I really wasn't thinking of the different weapons, but rather the one-handed+shield/two-handed thing...
My bad.
Hmmm. I guess you're right. I really wasn't thinking of the different weapons, but rather the one-handed+shield/two-handed thing...
My bad.
The Keits has a valid point, but anyways, the A or B ranking really shouldnt have come into play at early 40's, not to mention Nar(PLD) was 41 and the WAR was 45. It was a subtle poke at mr. war/sam(pre-meditate too, wtf why? he didnt even USE third eye when he was getting beaten on...) and his obviously crappy equip.
I think the great thing about war is the wide variety of weapon choices you can abuse. Downside is how many weapons you have to buy/carry/level (*chokes*) which is why i dont plan to take war past 37 (which it is already) until i play some other jobs, therefore having most of those skills capped already and much less of a painintheass to keep up.
I think the great thing about war is the wide variety of weapon choices you can abuse. Downside is how many weapons you have to buy/carry/level (*chokes*) which is why i dont plan to take war past 37 (which it is already) until i play some other jobs, therefore having most of those skills capped already and much less of a painintheass to keep up.
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