PLD Pro's and Con's, negating weaknesses and how to improve further your strengths

[Vafruvant]

In practicality, I've never tanked an HNM/God/otherwise high level mob as most prefer my WHM, but I've been around people who have enough to know what I would do. Overall, I prefer /war if I have a good WHM with me. Realistically, I've run into too many people who think they are good WHM's and just flat out are not, haha. As such, I often go /nin for singular events.

Really, though, there are so many factors that play into hate control, it's too hard to deem it solely on what to change with PLD. Weapon resistance, mob attack speed, mob attack itself, etc. So many things can make or break /nin, /war or even /rdm. /nin is gonna bomb against WAR or THF mobs, but it'll make a SAM or DRK fight a breeze (provided they use a 2H weapon). /rdm is awesome if you have a nice DEF and Enmity set, but otherwise you'll have issues retaining hate.

Flash is an invaluable tool, as is using Sentinel beforehand to double it's enmity gain. If I can, I like to start by a mere attack, then Sentinel (usually will pull hate itself) followed by Flash and possibly Shield Bash right before Sentinel wears off. The doubled enmity will usually hold for a good bit, then I can follow up with Rampart and Flash again when it's getting shaky. Granted, you can't always start a big fight the way you'd like to, but that is idealistically.

I've personally never used HP-swaps, as I hate carrying anymore gear than necessary. Being on 360, I can't make use of extended macros, and as useful as one like Caerloc posted, that would use 2 slots just for 1 cast, and that's if I only swapped in 3 pieces. For all the abilities and spells we have to cast, that can be an issue, switching palettes and stuff. But it's great for those windowed ^^;

 

[Diabllos]

/rdm is awesome if you have a nice DEF and Enmity set, but otherwise you'll have issues retaining hate.

/RDM has the most hate tools available of any sub. Using blind > bind > sleep > flash > phalanx > along with your usual cures/flash. Especially over longer fights such as HNM, Jailers or whatever, /RDM proves incredibly useful.

I've personally never used HP-swaps, as I hate carrying anymore gear than necessary. Being on 360, I can't make use of extended macros, and as useful as one like Caerloc posted, that would use 2 slots just for 1 cast, and that's if I only swapped in 3 pieces.

This could be done in one macro:

/equip ring "bomb queen ring"
/equip back "gigant mantle"
/ma "cure ii" <me>
/wait 5
/equip back <whatever>
/equip ring <whatever>

 

[shmedly]

You may think I'm crazy, but I carry around a stack of Kurayami tools on pld/nin. When I get the opportunity, I use a tool. I've landed blind on all sky gods including Kirin, Behemoth, and also Proto Ultima. Not sure if it's much hate, but I'm sure it adds a little even if resisted.

I also use a gear swap for cure II's. Not much mp so I can spam that when the fight allows. A lot of times I get most of my hate from curing my co-tank or random melee. I also work with my rdm's so they know to be in my magic range when Converting. With all the debuffs, cures, and other things they do, it's a nice boost of hate for me.

Peace,
Shmed

 

[Diabllos]

You may think I'm crazy, but I carry around a stack of Kurayami tools on pld/nin. When I get the opportunity, I use a tool. I've landed blind on all sky gods including Kirin, Behemoth, and also Proto Ultima. Not sure if it's much hate, but I'm sure it adds a little even if resisted.

It's common practice to spam ninja tools like Kurayami, Hojo, Dokumori as PLD/NIN. Although, if your MP pool is being comfortably refreshed, it often just works out better to use another cure in place. The casting times are so long for Ninjutsu debuffs, and since it requires more gil and inventory space I choose not to bother with it myself.

Landing kurayami as PLD/NIN is kinda funny, lol. I've landed Bind on Sarameya as NIN/DRK, but it's really just a humerous thing rather than useful. It won't stick for long at all, much like Kurayami probably won't be very potent or long-lasting in the least either.

 

[jamal]

You may think I'm crazy, but I carry around a stack of Kurayami tools on pld/nin. When I get the opportunity, I use a tool. I've landed blind on all sky gods including Kirin, Behemoth, and also Proto Ultima. Not sure if it's much hate, but I'm sure it adds a little even if resisted.

I also use a gear swap for cure II's. Not much mp so I can spam that when the fight allows. A lot of times I get most of my hate from curing my co-tank or random melee. I also work with my rdm's so they know to be in my magic range when Converting. With all the debuffs, cures, and other things they do, it's a nice boost of hate for me.

Peace,
Shmed

Not sure if Flipmixer is still around, but we used to use Tonko on Tiamat just to be casting something, lol.

 

[Caerloc]

You may think I'm crazy, but I carry around a stack of Kurayami tools on pld/nin. When I get the opportunity, I use a tool. I've landed blind on all sky gods including Kirin, Behemoth, and also Proto Ultima. Not sure if it's much hate, but I'm sure it adds a little even if resisted.

There is no difference in hate gained wether the spell is resisted or not. Its the same amount either way. But its a big timesink to indulge in ichi-casting. But if all your timers are down and your out of mp, it can get the job down.

 

[Vafruvant]

Nono, don't get me wrong, /rdm has a lot of hate tools, but you can burn through your mp quite quickly. And for kiting fights, not gonna happen, even with w.legs. Like, if you try casting blind, phalanx, stoneskin, etc, kiting is not gonna happen; it's great for bloodtanking, provided you have enough refresh support. Stoneskin, phalanx and flash in and of themselves could burn your mp, even with the boost, faster than a normal PLD/w/e would. I still like pld/rdm, don't get me wrong, but it can be bad unless you have at least an rdm and bard or cor.

 

[Slick]

Heal Anyone/Everyone = Enmity+1

Just a few of my 2 cents

I'm infamous for Cure IV spamming. I'm surprised people are talking about using Cure II.. Cure II doesn't even make the mob flinch imo. Use all your mp max gear (homam set + turban; which your using for uts recasts anyway) and have a blast flying through mp with flash and Cure IV. P.S. Reprisal in a haste setup is 1 min 30 recast, So slap that in if your 3 shadows drop in a heartbeat and you weren't ready for it or every 1 min 30 seconds for fun! Oh your running out of mp??? Pop Chivalry!! Rinse and Repeat... /nin grabs just as much hate as a /war imo. You basically are recieving around 150-200 mp more to spam from homam/uts recast alone. When blood tanking those slots should need to be buffed with DEF / VIT bonus's.

Also I personally tank dynamis as /nin (when i'm allowed to have fun) on occasion and keep hate just as good if not better than /war with joy toy / justice sword with normal haste setup. Brutal earring, suppa, swift belt, full homam, other random DD gears from my other DD jobs and swap in hecta set for ws. Now obviously if i'm low in the tp department and a DD wants to weaponskill off the pull and my flash its a little harder. But with a couple Cure IV's (since i really dont need to cure myself) on teamates taking damage, i cannnn get it back. Pop Chivalry when need tp. Granted, i have tried /nin without using the double attack chance on both weapons and the difficulty keeping hate doubled. But it definately makes dynamis fun again ><.

Anyone have any luck tanking as /dnc? Never tried it but wondering how it is and some good situations for it? I use /rdm all the time in campaign but i see some plds use /dnc in campaign.

 

[Lukas]

/DNC would be an interesting option for a PLD, but I haven't really spoken to any who have used it end-game. I mean, you'd be blood tanking, but have access to steps (which procure some enmity), Curing Waltz II which is similar to Cure III, Divine Waltz which is AoE and has the same potency as Curaga, and Animated Flourish which is on par with Flash in terms of enmity I believe. All of which have no cast time. You wouldn't be able to do much in terms of DD however and would be somewhat reliant on TP. But you could remove your own debuffs!

Anyone tried it?

 

[shmedly]

/DNC would be an interesting option for a PLD, but I haven't really spoken to any who have used it end-game. I mean, you'd be blood tanking, but have access to steps (which procure some enmity), Curing Waltz II which is similar to Cure III, Divine Waltz which is AoE and has the same potency as Curaga, and Animated Flourish which is on par with Flash in terms of enmity I believe. All of which have no cast time. You wouldn't be able to do much in terms of DD however and would be somewhat reliant on TP. But you could remove your own debuffs!

Anyone tried it?

As pld/dnc:

Pros:

Animated flourish: About 3/4 of a Provoke

3 more ways to cure yourself: Good Enmity generation from cures and being able to aoe cure

Drain/aspir samba: "Some" hp/mp


Cons:

Animated flourish: Takes 2 steps. There is a recast timer of 15 secs on each step you use and takes 10tp. So 30 seconds and 20tp, IF you actually hit both steps. You are a pld so your acc will still be shit.

3 more cures: Not too much for the con side except for your acc as pld and your TP gain. The shield blocking tp bonus is nice, so reprisal would need to be used whenever possible.

Drain/Aspir Sambas: Drain Samba II is ok but it does cost 25% for not a lot of hp return for yourself. Aspir Samba is almost worthless, but the mp does add up and it's only a 10% tp cost.

HP: You have the same HP as you would have with /nin.

TP and weapons: Getting TP as a pld in an HNM fight is not the easiest thing to do. Pld's have terrible acc along with not a lot of atk. As a taru I find myself hitting for 0 at times with no TP gain. You can add acc/atk/str but then you lose out on your def/vit/other good stat boosts that will keep you standing.

Weapon choices would be Macuahuitl +1, Joyeuse, and Justice Sword. I say these 3 because of the stats and effects.

Macuahuitl +1: +4 Enmity and +11atk but -4 acc to a job that already misses enough.

Joyeuse/Justice: Both have good DA proc rate, but lower on dmg and no Enmity boost. You also have to use 2 extra slots of inventory for Justice.

If you are missing/hitting for 0, it's not going to do you any good. Also if you are hitting for small numbers multiple times, you are feeding the mob large amounts of TP that is going to make you burn through any extra TP you did gain from it.

Possible TP gain option: If you have 1 or more Samurai that have Shikikoyo it might be possible to swap them in/out of the tank pt to use on the pld. Swapping people in/out of the tank party during combat is not an easy thing to do so this does have drawbacks.


In the end, it's a nice sub job for campaign, farming, smaller NM's, but I just don't think it's a viable subjob for endgame just yet.

Peace,
Shmed

 

[Hexx]

/DNC would be an interesting option for a PLD, but I haven't really spoken to any who have used it end-game. I mean, you'd be blood tanking, but have access to steps (which procure some enmity), Curing Waltz II which is similar to Cure III, Divine Waltz which is AoE and has the same potency as Curaga, and Animated Flourish which is on par with Flash in terms of enmity I believe. All of which have no cast time. You wouldn't be able to do much in terms of DD however and would be somewhat reliant on TP. But you could remove your own debuffs!

Anyone tried it?

/DNC is great for tanking, but HNMs and some Gods would be a bitch to kill. Granted, you can build TP before hand (I always have as PLD before goin up to take on Byakko, Suzzy and such) but its hard to regain it back due to the lack of acc. I would think its a great sub for dynamis and such but its really more meant for soloing or to give you more survivability in Campaign.

P.S. The acc issues is somewhat resolved by the fact that /DNC gives Acc. Bonus to PLD.

 

[Taurothar]

Shield Mastery from /DNC would be another good thing. That should net you enough TP from your blocks to be able to dance effectively.

 

[Bladewind]

Shield Mastery from /DNC would be another good thing. That should net you enough TP from your blocks to be able to dance effectively.

Are you implying Shield Mastery would help you rebuild TP with DNC sub, or does DNC sub have a natural Shield Mastery? if so i doubt it would stack with PLDs own trait.

 

[shmedly]

/DNC is great for tanking, but HNMs and some Gods would be a bitch to kill. Granted, you can build TP before hand (I always have as PLD before goin up to take on Byakko, Suzzy and such) but its hard to regain it back due to the lack of acc. I would think its a great sub for dynamis and such but its really more meant for soloing or to give you more survivability in Campaign.

P.S. The acc issues is somewhat resolved by the fact that /DNC gives Acc. Bonus to PLD.

The Acc Bonus isn't that great from /dnc, especially against a God or HNM

Shield Mastery from /DNC would be another good thing. That should net you enough TP from your blocks to be able to dance effectively.

Shield mastery does help gain TP faster but not near enough to try tank a HNM with it. You will block less and for sure hit less so your TP gain would be minimal.

Peace,
Shmed

 

[jamal]

The Acc Bonus isn't that great from /dnc, especially against a God or HNM



Shield mastery does help gain TP faster but not near enough to try tank a HNM with it. You will block less and for sure hit less so your TP gain would be minimal.

Peace,
Shmed

Not to mention tp-gain does nothing for the amount of damage you'll be taking comparatively.

 

[jyakotsu]

/DNC is great for tanking, but HNMs and some Gods would be a bitch to kill. Granted, you can build TP before hand (I always have as PLD before goin up to take on Byakko, Suzzy and such) but its hard to regain it back due to the lack of acc. I would think its a great sub for dynamis and such but its really more meant for soloing or to give you more survivability in Campaign.

P.S. The acc issues is somewhat resolved by the fact that /DNC gives Acc. Bonus to PLD.

PLD/DNC doesn't tank... And any PLD that isn't voking stones off of BLMs or backup tanking in dynamis shouldn't be coming PLD. Honestly if a PLD is meleeing instead of kiting stones, he shouldn't be allowed to come to dynamis. :\

 

[Hexx]

PLD/DNC doesn't tank... And any PLD that isn't voking stones off of BLMs or backup tanking in dynamis shouldn't be coming PLD. Honestly if a PLD is meleeing instead of kiting stones, he shouldn't be allowed to come to dynamis. :\

Stone kiting is only necessary if the BLMs arent up to snuff my friend. Also, PLD/DNC can tank easily enough, Ive done so quite often >_> have you even given it a shot since DNC came out? Dont knock it till you try it

The Acc Bonus isn't that great from /dnc, especially against a God or HNM



Shield mastery does help gain TP faster but not near enough to try tank a HNM with it. You will block less and for sure hit less so your TP gain would be minimal.

Peace,
Shmed

Never said it would help against a God or HNM (but i didnt clarify that either my bad). Shield Master DOES make a big difference as far as TP gain is concerned, plus add Reprisal to that and youre looking at a full TP bar every time you fight a MNK or other fast attacking mob. Speaking from personal experience from tanking MNK mobs in Dynamis, my TP bar is ALWAYS full to 300 after taking on a MNK typ mob lol.

 

[Achates]

Stone kiting is only necessary if the BLMs arent up to snuff my friend. Also, PLD/DNC can tank easily enough, Ive done so quite often >_> have you even given it a shot since DNC came out? Dont knock it till you try it

He quit some time ago.

 

[Hexx]

He quit some time ago.

I know he did. Not to start a flame war, but you cant really say a specific job/sub combo doesnt work if you dont play anymore and havent experienced it, hence the "Don't knock it till you try it" statement

 

[Taurothar]

I meant Shield mastery *with* /dnc not from. My bad on that.

PLD/DNC is a decent tank, and my thoughts were never for HNMing, because for that you need your A game, PLD/DNC is best used if you'll be using it on lesser things, soloing, or partying.