PLD Question

[Kagemusha]

As I've been leveling into the 50's, lately I've heard of PLDs tanking in a Haubergeon and doing fine...I'm wondering which one I should be using, hauby is only 2 defense below surcoat, but surcoat has VIT + 4, and I'd like to get some opinions on this. I have no problems using either.

 

[Bajaratt]

Paladins tanking in hauby's are almost always in level 75 merit parties, where they play damage dealer more than tank so they can "fit in" some merit cannons. At that point, they're gearing up and eating damage dealing food, not trying to mitigate damage; not something I'd imagine would be effective before those kinds of parties.

Considering that most of your hate comes from spells and job abilities, not melee damage, wearing a hauby won't do all that much for you. You can certainly macro it in when you do a weapon skill though.

 

[Areya]

Like Baj said, I wouldn't be concerned with tanking in a hauby just yet...and if you a taru (I'm assuming that you are), that Vit might be a bit important for you.

 

[CmdrFly]

On the flipside, eva-20 would help shield indirectly proc more would it not?

Still no real need for it at these levels, but another benefit to consider. I haven't donned a Hauby in some time, does it have agi-5?

 

[xlucifelx]

For a Taru, I don't suggest ever using ATT gear over HP gear, unless you're confident with the HP you have. A Byrnie would probably be a better choice if you're thinking DD-wise, because of the bonuses you get which in the long run, are actually better then the AF.

While leveling WAR and THF 60+ I did notice quite a few PLD trying the DD approach and it only really worked if you had really A-class gear.

 

[Bajaratt]

On the flipside, eva-20 would help shield indirectly proc more would it not?

Still no real need for it at these levels, but another benefit to consider. I haven't donned a Hauby in some time, does it have agi-5?

Yes, it does.

 

[Zerayla]

From what i've seen, the majority of PLDs that tank in a Hauby or a Vermy, only do so to "show off" their goods.

If you want to macro in gear for where it will help, then by all means do so but your job as a PLD is to tank. This means keeping hate at all times, and also means being able to take a beating so that you're not that much of an MP sponge for your healer.

Here's the stats you're comparing:

So here are the things I would consider, which is why I say AF > Hauburgeon:

1. You get 2 emnity from your AF. Emnity is a big help when keeping hate, and shouldn't be underestimated.
2. Divine Magic + 5 also helps with you keeping your hate, especially if you're flashing every minute.
3. Vit+4 and the DEF47 helps lessen the damage you take, which helps you not be an MP sponge.

The only benefits to having a Haubergeon would be if you're using it for weaponskills, because those stats are only going to help your damage and if the rest of your gear is set to "tanking" then the extra damage you could get from a Hauby isn't going to compare to the extra hate you're able to gain from the stats on your AF.

I realize you didn't mention what you would be chosing a Hauby over, but figured the other option you'll hopefully have if you're lvl 60, will definitely outweigh that option.

 

[Tim Wakefield]

I pt'd with a JP Taru PLD/NIN the other day. He switched out his Surcoat for a Hauby for WS I noticed, but that was about it. Zera summed it up pretty well. She gets the gold star.

 

[Jeska]

Harby's accuracy/dex would definately help with a multi-hit ws like vorpal blase and since keeping the mob's attention is as much dependant on how much you are damaging it per hit as it is on emnity I'd say give it a go next time you party and see the results for yourself.

 

[Necrosis]

So here are the things I would consider, which is why I say AF > Hauburgeon:

1. You get 2 emnity from your AF. Emnity is a big help when keeping hate, and shouldn't be underestimated.
2. Divine Magic + 5 also helps with you keeping your hate, especially if you're flashing every minute.
3. Vit+4 and the DEF47 helps lessen the damage you take, which helps you not be an MP sponge.

The only benefits to having a Haubergeon would be if you're using it for weaponskills, because those stats are only going to help your damage and if the rest of your gear is set to "tanking" then the extra damage you could get from a Hauby isn't going to compare to the extra hate you're able to gain from the stats on your AF.

I realize you didn't mention what you would be chosing a Hauby over, but figured the other option you'll hopefully have if you're lvl 60, will definitely outweigh that option.

1) 2 enmity is negligible. I would think the damage haubergeon adds in the long run would be far more beneficial in exp situations.
2) what?
3) Eh... extremely small difference.

 

[Xean]

Any enmity+ stacks onto anything you do, whether it's using job abilities, casting magic, etc. This does mean a lot of extra hate over time. Also, taking damage reduces hate, so that extra 2 def and 4 vit are going to make a difference in keeping hate over time. Damage from a Haubergeon really is negligible. You have to land hits for those stats to be of use, and PLDs aren't going to be having much accuracy. Unless you're gonna use Bream Sushi over Tavnazian Taco/Salad . . .

 

[Kagemusha]

From what i've seen, the majority of PLDs that tank in a Hauby or a Vermy, only do so to "show off" their goods.

People tank...In a vermy cloak? Wow...just wow.

If you want to macro in gear for where it will help, then by all means do so but your job as a PLD is to tank. This means keeping hate at all times, and also means being able to take a beating so that you're not that much of an MP sponge for your healer.

If i'm gonna use it just for macroing for WSes, then personally I don't think it is worth the buy, maybe that's just me

So here are the things I would consider, which is why I say AF > Hauburgeon:

1. You get 2 emnity from your AF. Emnity is a big help when keeping hate, and shouldn't be underestimated.
2. Divine Magic + 5 also helps with you keeping your hate, especially if you're flashing every minute.
3. Vit+4 and the DEF47 helps lessen the damage you take, which helps you not be an MP sponge.

1. 2 emnity isn't a lot, if i were to drop this and use the hauby instead, I will still be using all my other AF, which gives 6 emnity total. If you can't keep hate with +6 emnity, then I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be tanking at all.

2. Erm...Does divine magic skill even help flash? At all? It's a great spell and it keeps my divine magic skill up, but I don't think there is a noticable difference no matter what your skill is.

3. Once again, is an extra 2 DEF and VIT really going to help? Here is my plan: If I were to use a hauby I would also use WAR belt +1, which is +3 VIT, and if I were to use surcoat, I would just use a life belt instead for the extra acc. So I'm not really sure if the trade-off will make a difference.

The only benefits to having a Haubergeon would be if you're using it for weaponskills, because those stats are only going to help your damage and if the rest of your gear is set to "tanking" then the extra damage you could get from a Hauby isn't going to compare to the extra hate you're able to gain from the stats on your AF.

The hauby would be the only non-tanking gear I would wear, everything else would be strictly tanking, which I don't think would make that big a difference.

I realize you didn't mention what you would be chosing a Hauby over, but figured the other option you'll hopefully have if you're lvl 60, will definitely outweigh that option.

Maybe I was being a bit subtle about it, but I said I was choosing either hauby or surcoat.

Mmmkay, after all that's been said, I think I'm just gonna end up testing it for myself. Thanks for everybody's input on this. ^^

 

[Mishaela]

Flash can be resisted just like Stun can, just the occurance rate of it is also really low.

 

[Kagemusha]

Flash can be resisted just like Stun can, just the occurance rate of it is also really low.

I can honestly say that ever since I've been able to cast flash it has never been resisted, so I'm guessing skill is almost neglegible.

 

[Zerayla]

You wouldn't believe how many PLDs i've heard have been tanking in a vermillion's of late. I hear it all the time when my friends are in party.


Also just wanted to add, that the more emnity you're able to pack on to keep hate better, the more your DDs are able to go all out and don't have to hold back as much. Your job in the party isn't to be a DD, but to be the tank so your focus and priority should be to excell in the area, of tanking. As long as you're skilled, then yes having an extra 2 enmity isn't going to make a difference however it should allow for the other members in your party responsible for being the DDs to actually do a little more.

And though I haven't tested it, I'm pretty sure that having Divine Magic +5 would likely affect the duration of the spell "flash" which would increase your hate. Again, haven't tested this but I would assume that ability is attached to the AF because of the flash spell.. because no PLD uses banish, at least that i've ever heard of.

Honestly, for just a few extra points of damage from a haubergeon isn't worth it, because you're going to be taking hits a little harder and if a PLD's job was simply to keep hate, i'm sure that a WAR or MNK could do so better... its just that a PLD isn't going to drain the healer of their MP, which is why the extra DEF and VIT would be helpful.

 

[Kagemusha]

What if I were to macro in surcoat while voking/flashing and just use hauby for the rest of the fight? I'm trying to meet somewhere in the middle for myself here XD.

 

[CmdrFly]

You'll need a hauby for later anyways, may as well pick it up as soon as possible and test for yourself.

Most pld's geared for vit tanking, that I've partied with at least, parse ~50-60% accuracy. Haub's +10acc won't make a league of difference there, and if you're not hitting much then 5str and 10atk are pretty useless too.

 

[Bajaratt]

You'll need a hauby for later anyways, may as well pick it up as soon as possible and test for yourself.

Most pld's geared for vit tanking, that I've partied with at least, parse ~50-60% accuracy. Haub's +10acc won't make a league of difference there, and if you're not hitting much then 5str and 10atk are pretty useless too.

Not to mention if Hauby is the only piece of DD gear he's wearing, he won't see much of a difference in damage. Unless you're going to put on a bunch of +damage gear, Hauby will be a waste of money by itself. You'd be better off buying a vermy cloak with the money for in between fights.

 

[Xean]

You'll need a hauby for later anyways, may as well pick it up as soon as possible and test for yourself.

Most pld's geared for vit tanking, that I've partied with at least, parse ~50-60% accuracy. Haub's +10acc won't make a league of difference there, and if you're not hitting much then 5str and 10atk are pretty useless too.

You reworded a part of what I said! Get off my Kool-Aid, beech!

 

[Dejan]

1) 2 enmity is negligible. I would think the damage haubergeon adds in the long run would be far more beneficial in exp situations.
2) what?
3) Eh... extremely small difference.

I can't believe i'm saying this, but for once i actually agree and second what Necro said.... /panic =P