POLNews - GM Policy (12th December)*Update* - continued from the other thread

[RoM]

RoM, the bolded parts didn't say anywhere that writing guides is against the ToS.

trans·mis·sion /trænsˈmɪʃən, trænz-/Pronunciation[trans-mish-uhn, tranz-]
1. the act or process of transmitting.
2. the fact of being transmitted.
3. something that is transmitted.
4. Machinery.
a. transference of force between machines or mechanisms, often with changes of torque and speed.
b. a compact, enclosed unit of gears or the like for this purpose, as in an automobile.
5. Radio and Television. the broadcasting of electromagnetic waves from one location to another, as from a transmitter to a receiv

-

intellectual property
–noun
Law. property that results from original creative thought, as patents, copyright material, and trademarks.

-

I.E. any game data (read: intellectual property) you've had experience with is not allowed to be shared (read: transmitted/act of transmission). Should i provide you definition of how writing a guide and handing it out is transmitting or are we clear?

also doesn't mention anything about it being a cheat or against the ToS to write guides. It sas you're not allowed to record or reproduce communications you have with the servers. Read: you may not record packet data, or try to reproduce the way packets are sent..

I see, so doing a quest and then writing it down doesn't count as recording? And the game client itself is not SE communicating with you? You'd never pass a bar.

Please do mention the part that says writing guides are against the ToS, 'cause neither of the parts you bolded (which you said proved that everything is against the ToS), show that writing guides is against the ToS.

Ask and ye shall recieve, and promptly. I aim to please. You guys are the ones who want to take the damn ToS so literally, i'm only obliging you. I think it's a weak point to argue also, but that's your logic for you.

Edit: this isn't being smartassed or anything but thanks for countering without frothing at the mouth this time.

 

[Tomasello]

I like that you're borrowing terminology from me now, makes you sound intelligent. That post was almost a literary masterpiece...

Recycling your garbage terminology was a pun but obviously you didn't get it.

Edit: i like how you're distancing yourself from the break in 'ToS breach= cheat' mentality.

I've said it 5 times I'm just tired of repeating myself like a broken record.

Oh and apparently you were absent the day the taught you how to spell kindergarten.

You want to play the grammer nazi game? This is what you have to do to make your long-winded reponses seem intelligent? Ok. Let's Play.

In fact from now on you will be adressed specificly with pictures so i don't confuse you anymore.

Tag you're it.


EDIT: Edit made for the grammer Nazi.

 

[RoM]

I didn't nor have i tried playing grammar nazi previous to the handful of attempts you guys have made at it, obviously it gets under your skin worse than mine. C'est la vie.

Read the response to Uzor, you'll learn something. Promise.

Did you read it? So is the parser worse than a guide?

I didn't think so either.

Get off my internets. At the very least learn to relax your ass in public. It's kinda hard to take you guys too seriously if the crux of your argument is that a break in ToS is cheating. We've done this dance, you guys lost.

Edit: tag you're it. Too blatant, you can do better.

Sizzle.

 

[Uzor]

trans·mis·sion /trænsˈmɪʃən, trænz-/Pronunciation[trans-mish-uhn, tranz-]
1. the act or process of transmitting.
2. the fact of being transmitted.
3. something that is transmitted.
4. Machinery.
a. transference of force between machines or mechanisms, often with changes of torque and speed.
b. a compact, enclosed unit of gears or the like for this purpose, as in an automobile.
5. Radio and Television. the broadcasting of electromagnetic waves from one location to another, as from a transmitter to a receiv

Transmission, as in things being sent. As in packets, yes. That's not items and guides.

intellectual property
–noun
Law. property that results from original creative thought, as patents, copyright material, and trademarks.

As in copyrighted material. Read: images, animations. Your character. Writing a guide about something isn't copyright infringement, as it's your own work, not theirs. It is not illegal to write a guide about a game, as you're not claiming the game as your own, or try to copy it's material, or resell an illegal copy.

I.E. any game data (read: intellectual property) you've had experience with is not allowed to be shared (read: transmitted/act of transmission). Should i provide you definition of how writing a guide and handing it out is transmitting or are we clear?

Already answered this.

I see, so doing a quest and then writing it down doesn't count as recording? And the game client itself is not SE communicating with you? You'd never pass a bar.

No. That's counted as writing your own work, eg. not illegal. That's not the same as bringing a video camera to the cinema to record the movie. That's copying a movie, eg. illegal.

You may do anything the copy right holder allows you to do with it without breaking the law. If SE would say that writing guides about the game is illegal, then it probably would become illegal though.

 

[Tomasello]

Edit: tag you're it. Too blatant, you can do better.

Sizzle.

I can do better. That was a sizzle.

At the very least you're a hypocrit, at the very most you're a goddamn moron with shifty moral values who likes to be told what's right and wrong based on a document written by a corporate lawyer. Cheating implies immorality and guilt. If i'm hurting no one and the information is attainable in numerous varying venues both ligitimate and illigitmate (depending on the severity of your interpritation of the ToS and EULA) to everyone what's there to be guilty about and why am i an immoral person?

Your turn. We going to do this all night or are you just going to make more declarative victory statements when you've proven nothing except that you violate rules and believe it's ok when it benefits you?

 

[RoM]

Uz, you're arguing semantics and interpretation.

The fact of the matter is that in a court of law you just got pwned in the face. ALL material with regards to FFXI is solely owned by SE, including all information gleaned from your character. Unless you've obtained liscencing from SE to produce material related to their content you are in violation of the ToS.

As i stated, it's much like the NFL disclaimer on tv. If they catch you talking they can take action. Just because they don't doesn't make it any less valid. By that reasoning they haven't taken action on the parser so it must not be cheating so much as a minor rule infraction. See what i did there? Here we go again.

But not really tho.

The defense rests.

 

[Uzor]

Uz, you're arguing semantics and interpretation.

The fact of the matter is that in a court of law you just got pwned in the face. ALL material with regards to FFXI is solely owned by SE, including all information gleaned from your character. As i stated, it's much like the NFL disclaimer on tv.

The defense rests.

No, because you can't commit an illegal act when it comes to copyrighted material if the copyright owner says it's OK.

And since SE says it's OK to write guides, it's not illegal. Thus, I didn't get pwned in the face.

And don't come talk to me about interpretation when you did the very same thing about the way you interpreted Hellstorm's post.

Go away.:rtfm:

 

[RoM]

No, because you can't commit an illegal act when it comes to copyrighted material if the copyright owner says it's OK.

I don't recall SE saying it's ok. As such the ToS uses what are called 'blanket statements.'

And since SE says it's OK to write guides, it's not illegal. Thus, I didn't get pwned in the face.

Got a link to SE oking that or are you just simply blowing smoke out of your ass some more?

And don't come talk to me about interpretation when you did the very same thing about the way you interpreted Hellstorm's post.

2 examples makes datamining ok. A million still doesn't validate the parser. Gotcha.

Go away.:rtfm:

If that was all you were building to take two of the above and pretend like i care some more.

 

[RoM]

you've proven nothing except that you violate rules and believe it's ok when it benefits you?

Violates the rules, yes.

Benefits me? No.

Benefits anyone over the combat log? No.

Benefits someone too stupid to work it out themselves? Yes.

I could go on all night but i have a life. As far as my declarations of victory i imagine the crowd making them for me has tired of you two being dumbasses (didn't want to disappoint). Although i'm sure if you keep it up more will be along shortly.

 

[Tomasello]

Got a link to SE oking that or are you just simply blowing smoke out of your ass some more?

LMAO you're one to talk...

Truth is it's a grey area that you pick and choose the definitions to suit you, as i've stated from post one.

What page of the ToS is that on again?

 

[RoM]

What page of the ToS is that on again?

A blanket statement is a vague and noncommittal statement asserting a premise without providing evidence. Hence is open to (legal) interpretation.

Next time you don't understand me ask jeeves. The only links i could've provided you are to google, dictionary.com, and the ToS and EULA which i directly quoted. So sorry to disappoint.

Seriously, they ask that you read and understand this stuff to play. You guys fail. Log out and read till your eyes bleed, then read some more.

Here's a good one: Does a 10 year old on the game constitute cheating? It's a break in the EULA. <.<

If it were noon and you had a flashlight you still wouldn't be able to see me.

 

[Uzor]

Got a link to SE oking that or are you just simply blowing smoke out of your ass some more?

http://www.playonline.com/polapps/s/fansite.site.List?polg_loc=en&c=2

Do you honestly think they would have community links to sites with information about the game and strategy guides? They don't link to sites that have hacking tools, nor the parser.

If it was agaisnt the ToS, and infringement (sp?) of copyrighted material and agaisnt the law due to interrupting and recording transmissions, they:

1) wouldn't link to them
2) wouldn't reccomend them
3) would sue them

Seriously, they ask that you read and understand this stuff to play. You guys fail. Log out and read till your eyes bleed, then read some more.

I reccomend you re-read it. You obviously missunderstood it.

Here's a good one: Does a 10 year old on the game constitute cheating? It's a break in the EULA. <.<

That's not cheating. That's just breakign the EULA. The reason PlayOnline have it there isn 't because they want to, it's because US law says that anyone under the age of 13 is not allowed to sign up to internet sites. It's also probably because they (not SE) consider the game "violent".

If it were noon and you had a flashlight you still wouldn't be able to see me.

Well, it's not so much that I'd see you as it is I would ignore you. I tend to ignore homeless beggars.

 

[Skaw]

http://www.playonline.com/polapps/s/fansite.site.List?polg_loc=en&c=2

Do you honestly think they would have community links to sites with information about the game and strategy guides? They don't link to sites that have hacking tools, nor the parser.

If it was agaisnt the ToS, and infringement (sp?) of copyrighted material and agaisnt the law due to interrupting and recording transmissions, they:

1) wouldn't link to them
2) wouldn't reccomend them
3) would sue them

But yet, most of the information used on those web sites is datamined, or related to it. IE, game experience confirming datamined item drops from datamined MobX.

Datamining is most assuredly against the ToS.

 

[Uzor]

But yet, most of the information used on those web sites is datamined, or related to it. IE, game experience confirming datamined item drops from datamined MobX.

Datamining is most assuredly against the ToS.

Yes, datamining is against the ToS.

However, items datamined only shows people what the items are before the servers are up, or before they're discovered. It doesn't show you anywhere where it's from, what drops it, what the recipe is etc. So technically, you don't obtain any information other then the stats of an item.

Game experience doesn't confirm an item drops from something, it proves it drops from something since that information is impossible to get through datamining.

 

[Garvin]

http://www.playonline.com/polapps/s/fansite.site.List?polg_loc=en&c=2

Do you honestly think they would have community links to sites with information about the game and strategy guides? They don't link to sites that have hacking tools, nor the parser.

Well, since Alla is on that list, and is flat out owned by IGE, and others have permanent RMT advertisements...
...oh wait.

And again, what about the "third party program" use SPONSORED by SE? Yeah, Fraps. Remember that, from earlier? But wait, that can't be right, because any program like that is cheating, amirite?

That's not cheating. That's just breakign the EULA.

Awesome. You finally realize those are two different things. Maybe one day you'll seperate them a degree farther and realize that the parser only falls into one of those categories as well, and even then, only a grey area, like linking to RMT affiliated sites or promoting the use of video capture tools.

 

[Uzor]

Well, since Alla is on that list, and is flat out owned by IGE, and others have permanent RMT advertisements...
...oh wait.

Yes, but have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, SE doesn't know about that?

And again, what about the "third party program" use SPONSORED by SE? Yeah, Fraps. Remember that, from earlier? But wait, that can't be right, because any program like that is cheating, amirite?

You're best asking SE about that. For all I know, they might have made a temporary allowance of recording videos.

Awesome. You finally realize those are two different things. Maybe one day you'll seperate them a degree farther and realize that the parser only falls into one of those categories as well, and even then, only a grey area, like linking to RMT affiliated sites or promoting the use of video capture tools.

You took that out of context. That was about the 12-year old playing FFXI, which isn't cheating.

 

[RoM]

Much like i figured. Others beat me to the punch.

Give it up, dumbass. All you've shown is that SE allows for breaches in ToS all the time, even supports it. Not only that but you provided links with PARSER INFORMATION and gilselling ads on them! LOLGrats. I like it when you work for me.

You lost and continue to do so.

No wonder meeze has so much fun with you.

 

[Uzor]

Much like i figured. Others beat me to the punch.

Give it up, dumbass. All you've shown is that SE allows for breaches in ToS all the time, even supports it. Not only that but you provided links with PARSER INFORMATION and gilselling ads on them! LOLGrats. I like it when you work for me.

Do show where I said that.

You lost and continue to do so.

I still haven't "lost" anything. The only thing you've proved is that your knowledge in law and ToS/EULA is extremely limited.

No wonder meeze has so much fun with you.

Yeah, Meeze is fun. I play with him all the time.

 

[Marajade]

You took that out of context. That was about the 12-year old playing FFXI, which isn't cheating.

But its still against the EULA and ToS, which is your grounds for defining a cheat. So it must be cheating.

 

[Skaw]

Yes, datamining is against the ToS.

However, items datamined only shows people what the items are before the servers are up, or before they're discovered. It doesn't show you anywhere where it's from, what drops it, what the recipe is etc. So technically, you don't obtain any information other then the stats of an item.

Game experience doesn't confirm an item drops from something, it proves it drops from something since that information is impossible to get through datamining.

That only works for ambiguous items.

What about the disambiguous items? Not every item is a mystery to link it to a mob..
Khimaira Horn, Mamool Ja Collars, Troll Helmets, Medusa's Armlet, Hydra Scales, Goblin Masks, Cerberus Meat, Diatryma Meat, Yagudo Feather, etc. the list goes on.

Items like that simply need confirmation. They're datamined. The mobs they drop from are datamined. The location of the mobs are datamined. Zone Maps are datamined.

Even some items, like Algol, are easy to link to where they drop by descriptions given by SE. They stated Algol had something to do with Hell. Cerberus is from Hell. Easy link, just needed confirmation.