POLNews - GM Policy (12th December)*Update* - continued from the other thread

[RoM]

.........Peregrine?

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=36712&page=3

Given the drama this stirred up and other completely forseeable issues my friend naturally rethought his opinions of CoH and warcraft. I am all that's left, you have elei to thank for that.

i ran out of bubblegum so occasionally i find the random ass what needs kickin.

 

[hellstorm]

glad someone can read though the lines. Uzor is correct in interpreting what i said.

Difference: RoM already validated all his points with real arguments, information, and support from others. Peregrine just says he's right because of who he is without even attempting to argue.

correction he follow your point of view so he must be right. The argument is plain and simple, parse is a bot it calculate automatically information from "ingame." Give the user a clear advantage plus damages the games intended parameters.

 

[Marajade]

glad someone can read though the lines. Uzor is correct in interpreting what i said.

You'll excuse us, to say you're about as clear as 400 feet of mud is an understatement.

correction he follow your point of view so he must be right. The argument is plain and simple, parse is a bot it calculate automatically information from "ingame." Give the user a clear advantage plus damages the games intended parameters.

Completely false, and you're still retarded. Please exit the way you came, you lost 10 threads ago.

 

[RoM]

 

[Uzor]

Wow, I can't believe how retarded all of you are...

How is it hard to read what he said? It's quite obvious what HEllstorm ment from his text. That's like saying you don't know what someone ment if they say "I need to go to the bathroom".

Jesus christ, how do I tolerate being in a linkshell with you...

Yeah, because what I argue about on an online forum affects my performance, right?

right?

*rolls eyes*

 

[Eulore]

Difference: RoM already validated all his points with real arguments, information, and support from others. Peregrine just says he's right because of who he is without even attempting to argue.

I just thought the way it was worded made it sound a helluva lot like peregrine lol

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=36712&page=3

Given the drama this stirred up and other completely forseeable issues my friend naturally rethought his opinions of CoH and warcraft. I am all that's left, you have elei to thank for that.

i ran out of bubblegum so occasionally i find the random ass what needs kickin.

wb I guess :O

 

[RoM]

Wow, I can't believe how retarded all of you are...

How is it hard to read what he said? It's quite obvious what HEllstorm ment from his text. That's like saying you don't know what someone ment if they say "I need to go to the bathroom".

moar.

That motherfucker's less coherent than blazn, an accomplishment in and of itself.

It'd be real easy to explain it to you again since you weren't even part of the conversation hell and i were having but chances are the reality of the situation would simply escape you.

Go back to page one and read this thread over again until it sticks, laughing boy.

 

[RoM]

I just thought the way it was worded made it sound a helluva lot like peregrine lol

Pere claims superiority from page one and invites the attention immediately in the FB. I build to superiority and nine times out of ten am dragged along for the ride by some dumbass.

We were all well and good just chatting it up as a moral issue all being wrong in our own right until Uzor started ragging. :/

Next time i'm gonna pack midol.

wb I guess :O

Much obliged.

 

[Sneakypants]

Next time i'm gonna pack midol.

 

[Garvin]

Wow, I can't believe how retarded all of you are...

How is it hard to read what he said? It's quite obvious what HEllstorm ment from his text. That's like saying you don't know what someone ment if they say "I need to go to the bathroom".

I don't really think there's much of a problem actually understanding what he's saying, it's just... wrong.

Yeah, because what I argue about on an online forum affects my performance, right?

right?

*rolls eyes*

Eh. S'why you're there, isn't it? Just the fact that you're saying these things gives me a very concerning and negative feeling, much akin to disappointment, but I digress.

parse is a bot it calculate automatically information from "ingame." Give the user a clear advantage plus damages the games intended parameters.

No.
No.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, no, wrong, no, nuh-uh.
Again, if you want to call parser a "bot", so is calculator.exe.
It performs calculations (on the same numbers, if you wish to) to arrive at the same values automatically. Anything other than a pencil and paper is considered the same under this logic. A program that automates the process of number collection.
Seriously. Stop this. Saying this demonstrates that you do not have a clear grasp of what a parser is, does, the sources it draws from, or the method by which it does its job.
You are wrong. That statement is dumb, and you are dumb for making it.

 

[Uzor]

I don't really think there's much of a problem actually understanding what he's saying, it's just... wrong.

So he's wrong in saying that you can't datamine recipes?

WTF do you know? Obviously nothing about datamining.

As for your other arguments iin the post, I've already countered them several times in this thread. I won't bother responding to them again.

 

[Tomasello]

No.
No.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, no, wrong, no, nuh-uh.
Again, if you want to call parser a "bot", so is calculator.exe.
It performs calculations (on the same numbers, if you wish to) to arrive at the same values automatically. Anything other than a pencil and paper is considered the same under this logic. A program that automates the process of number collection.
Seriously. Stop this. Saying this demonstrates that you do not have a clear grasp of what a parser is, does, the sources it draws from, or the method by which it does its job.
You are wrong. That statement is dumb, and you are dumb for making it.

This is like a bad merry-go-round.

So we're going to start this arguement all over again. Just reread the last 10 pages and make up your minds for yourselves. Enough people made enough valid points on both sides of the debate.

Either you use a parser and don't see a problem with it or you don't because you consider it cheating. Obviously no one is changing anyone's mind.

And please I beg everyone no more walls of crammed text ugh...

Keep it pithy!




P.S. You parse = you cheat

 

[RoM]

Article 3: Prohibited Activities and Indemnification
3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

1. Any activities consisting of selling, offering to sell, purchasing, agreeing to purchase, exchanging, or agreeing to exchange "gil" (or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time), characters, or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;
2. The use of or participation in the Game for the purpose, in furtherance of, or in preparation for committing any illegal acts (including, by way of example but not limitation, any kind of gambling) or otherwise violating any applicable local, state, national or international law, or any rules or regulations promulgated thereunder;
3. The interference with or disruption of the Game or the PlayOnline Service or any servers or networks connected thereto, or the failure to obey any procedures, policies, regulations or other requirements of any networks connected to the PlayOnline Service;
4. The unauthorized use, duplication, transmission, display, performance or distribution of any items owned by you or third parties, or any other commission of any act of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement, trade secret infringement or misappropriation, or any other violation of any intellectual property or other proprietary right;
5. The impersonation or attempted impersonation of any employee of SEI or any SEI partner or affiliate, any other user of the Game or the PlayOnline Service, or any other person, in a manner intended to deceive or mislead any third party, or in any effort to access the account of another Game player or PlayOnline user;
6. The use of the Game or the PlayOnline Service to harass any third party, including other users of the Game and PlayOnline Service, or to solicit, encourage or threaten bodily harm or destruction of property;
7. Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices; and
8. SEI does not consent to or authorize any recording or reproduction of any communications with you. You may not record, reproduce or publish any communication with SEI. In addition to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, you may also be subject to criminal and civil sanctions and fines.


Based on the highlighted anything gained with regards to the game informational or otherwise outside of the game is not only illegal it's cheating.

Cry me a fucking river.

Get a grip. You don't get to pick and choose if all you can manage to do is what the ToS/EULA feed you. So either you leave your message boards, delete your bookmarks, don't talk to people on msngrs about the game and figure it all out for yourself inside the client or you're no better than anyone using a parser. If the parser is cheating so is the entire foundation for information exchange with regards to FFXI. I'll be damned if you nitpicking fuckbags are going to sit here and brow beat anyone for using the parser when EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE of information constitutes a cheat be it player written or otherwise, by the standards fo the ToS. Either it's a black and white issue for you and you're clearing out your data, guides, and login IDs or it's a personal call which now makes those of you calling parser a cheat hypocrits of the worst order.

Truth is it's a grey area that you pick and choose the definitions to suit you, as i've stated from post one. unless SE (read: lawyers) happen to be involved in which case it's what they say it is at the time they're pinning something on you and you're a dumbass for being caught regardless.

Dictionaries don't write legally binding end user contracts and terms. Lawyers do.

Regardless it's a baseless accusation made by people with little to no understanding not only of how these games work but how a ToS/EULA are open to interpretation both morally and legally.

Sheep.

This conversation is over.

Edit: In fact don't bother reading the ToS or EULA. It's obvious walls crammed full of accurate text related to the topic are beyond you folks, specificly when it's blatantly obvious by said text example that you're simply mistaken or at the very least a hypocrit with no clue.

 

[Tomasello]

4. The unauthorized use, duplication, transmission, display, performance or distribution of any items owned by you or third parties, or any other commission of any act of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement, trade secret infringement or misappropriation for any other violation of any intellectual property or other proprietary right;



Blah Blah Blah



Sheep.

This conversation is over.

It is over. Thank you for pointing of where it states all unauthorized 3rd party tools is cheating. I'm on a PS2 other then playing the game I purchased from SE in its original format and coming to this flameboard for a good chuckle every now and then, I have somehow managed after 2 years to play this game, very well I might add, without Cheats, Hacks, Parsers or even a stinking windower.

Feel free to underline the "gray area is open to interpritation" section of the ToS for me. Please.

If SE actually sent a GM to QCDN.org for a few hours to review these posts and actually had the balls to enforce their own rules, half of Quetz would easily be suspended or banned. Unfortunately collecting there $15 bucks a month which is more imporatant to them is the only reason they don't.

Your explicitly disobeying rules. Fact. Yet you deny your doing ANYTHING wrong. If your not cheating what is it your exactly doing?

 

[RoM]

It is over. Thank you for pointing of where it states all unauthorized 3rd party tools is cheating. I'm on a PS2 other then playing the game I purchased from SE in its original format and coming to this flameboard for a good chuckle every now and then, I have somehow managed after 2 years to play this game, very well I might add, without Cheats, Hacks, Parsers or even a stinking windower.

QCDN is a cheat, by your definition. Your statement is a lie.

Feel free to underline the "gray area is open to interpritation" section of the ToS for me. Please.

Actually i already bolded it. Learn2read. After that learn2interprit.

S'pose i'll dumb it down for you. The interpretation is in the severity of the breach. One might say QCDN/alla/somepage is cheating whereas one might call that a ripping good read for research on the game. That they both technicly constitute a breach in ToS doesn't even enter in to it nor does it qualify as 'cheating' until some braindead nitpicking moron comes in to shit all over the conversation because they have a bug up their ass for no reason in particular. In this case the part of the moron was played by Uzor with yourself in the supporting roll.

If SE actually sent a GM to QCDN.org for a few hours to review these posts and actually had the balls to enforce their own rules, half of Quetz would easily be suspended or banned. Unfortunately collecting there $15 bucks a month which is more imporatant to them is the only reason they don't.

Bingo, that and if they wanted to hold everyone to the precise letter of the ToS they would:

A. have to spend years and countless millions in court.

and

B. Actually think the EULA/ToS through themselves instead of hiring some random lawyer write up the standard CYA agreement that goes with software.

Enjoy your pip windower i don't have access to that's not a breach of ToS even tho it gives you an advantage over a PC user, cheater. While you're out cheating it up with user guides, datamined informational resource sites, and asking people outisde the game for information i'll be playing WoW, a game run by a company that thinks about these sorts of things.

If it's not open to interpretation you're no better than a parser user. Making anything you and yours have to say an entirely moot point made by self-hating cheaters. There is no concievable way to be any more clear about how your logic fails. It's a shame you skip over the meat of my posts and replace it with 'blah blah blah' it's also coincidental seeing as how that's usually the part of the post that requires answering or countering, something you just can't manage.

Your explicitly disobeying rules. Fact. Yet you deny your doing ANYTHING wrong. If your not cheating what is it your exactly doing?

I could say the same of anyone who uses anything but a brady guide, if i were as simple-minded as you. Meanwhile you feel entirely justified being able to look up quest information online .. third party ... against ToS ... EXPLICITLY BREAKING RULES! If that's not a cheat i don't know what is .. by your logic.

By mine it's hardly a big fucking deal, it hurts no one. Quite the contrary really. One of the requirements for me to call something a cheat means it has to advantage me over someone else and blatantly so or it simply doesn't hold up to the moral definition of a cheat. As the parser offers no more information than is in game it hurts no one and is not morally a cheat.

You - break in ToS = cheat. So by extension parser = cheat

Me - By that token you cheat because you break the ToS in other ways every day (guide/forum/chat outside game .. all breaks of the ToS) therefore you've no room to speak.

Both arguments are by your logic but only one makes any sense.

At the very least you're a hypocrit, at the very most you're a goddamn moron with shifty moral values who likes to be told what's right and wrong based on a document written by a corporate lawyer. Cheating implies immorality and guilt. If i'm hurting no one and the information is attainable in numerous varying venues both ligitimate and illigitmate (depending on the severity of your interpritation of the ToS and EULA) to everyone what's there to be guilty about and why am i an immoral person?

I'm not. Therefore it's not a cheat.

or

I am cheating but there's no victim. Making my cheating entirely moot at the very least.

Regardless i, personally, can't be cheating as to the topic matter here as i don't play anymore. So it's of little consequence. I just don't like faulty logic on loudmouthed retards who can't help but preach at the boards.

 

[Tomasello]

Let me dumb it down for you sir.

I'm on a PS2 other then playing the game I purchased from SE in its original format and coming to this flameboard for a good chuckle every now and then, I have somehow managed after 2 years to play this game, very well I might add, without Cheats, Hacks, Parsers or even a stinking windower.

So whats your reponse?

Enjoy your pip windower.......

blah blah blah

At the very least you're a hypocrit.

Moving on to the quintisential BS agruement of all you pro-parser people.

I am cheating but there's no victim. Making my cheating entirely moot at the very least.

And for the LAST time this where you and everyone else fails with your "victimless crime BS". I can't use a parser. So I am at a disadvantage therefore your cheating.

You operate in the land of fantasy where steriods and insider trading are also ok because there "victimless crimes". You get the edge I don't. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Maybe another long hard to read post with name-calling will prove your point?

Maybe not, it obviously hasn't so far.

 

[RoM]

Let me dumb it down for you sir.

I was under the impression you'd been dumbing it down since your enterance to the thread, how surprising.

So whats your reponse?

By your definition if you've looked up or learned anything outside of the client you are cheating, as you've broken the ToS. It's a harsh interpretation for cheating but no worse than your calling the parser a cheat. To be sure it breaks the ToS, it being a cheat is another matter entirely which i've already answered to about 20 times. Actually this whole time you've been able to parse and have been doing so without the third party program, it's called a combat log. You paying attention to it puts you at an advantage over someone who doesn't, hence you cheat. Your logic, not mine.

I love how you continually fail to respond to the above as well as the windower argument made as it directly refutes your faith in the ToS/EULA. Selectively ignoring issues is a sure sign of a weak argument. That and outdated forum insults and 80s movie references.

Moving on to the quintisential BS agruement of all you pro-parser people.

I'm not neccessarily pro parser, just anti-dumbass.

And for the LAST time this where you and everyone else fails with your "victimless crime BS". I can't use a parser. So I am at a disadvantage therefore your cheating.

no more information is available with the parser than is not available with your gear and the combat log. You make yourself a victim by engaging me in conversation. Your disadvantage is solely in your head, i assume you should be used to that by now.

You operate in the land of fantasy where steriods and insider trading are also ok because there "victimless crimes". You get the edge I don't. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Insider trading hurts investors. Steroids hurt the user. The parser hurts no one. You are not at a loss as not only is the information readily available to you through the first party client but any third party with the tools to provide the information such as fraps/parser/alla/somepage/BGforums/QCDN/etc/etc/etc.

Maybe another long hard to read post with name-calling will prove your point?

Hard to read? insulting?

lol, ok. This coming from You . 116 .. literary masterpiece. I'm simply breaking it down to your level while not sacrificing my vocabulary. Get a dictionary and a helmet, kid. As for it being hard to read it's damn near the same thing said multiple times in any post on varying degrees of intellect, sorry you can't handle the read no matter how simple i make it for you. If i could find pictures to make the point i would ... in fact from now on you will be adressed specificly with pictures so i don't confuse you anymore.

Maybe not, it obviously hasn't so far.

Probably not, although i got my point across before the move to the flameboard. Everything after the move here was simply sport. If you can't take the heat GTFO of the kitchen. Start a thread elsewhere if you don't want me commenting on your obvious mental handicap.

While we're at this please explain to me how i'm the one who doesn't understand when i continually turn your own logic and points against themselves meanwhile you can't find your ass with both hands.

 

[Tomasello]

Selectively ignoring issues is a sure sign of a weak argument.

LMAO. I swear every post you make only makes me look more right. I'm amazed you made it through an entire reply without using that literary masterpiece of a word "dumbass" in your reply.

If a parser is nothing more then something I can see in my chat log, why do you use it? Why don't you use the log on your screen and sit there with a pad and paper and for 3 hours of exp write down every single bit of dmg you do along with the 5 other members of your team, then average them all up and then do it all over again with another piece of equipment. All the while landing every Skillchain, engaging right away, applying you utsusemi and/or voking when applicable?

Cause you can't without playing like shit and/or screwing up all the data in the process. So you parse then you take that data, buy a piece of gear or weapon that makes you 5% better then me and all the while I have no idea why your using that setup. That sounds very fair to me. You just don't even know what the hell your talking about anymore and I'm done wasting my time explaining the rules, you've already chosen to break, to you and the concept of cheating which apprently you were absent the day they went over it in kindergarden.

 

[RoM]

Once again... can't miss it this time.

I do not play FFXI anymore, i simply know the difference between breaking rules and actually cheating.

I like that you're borrowing terminology from me now, makes you sound intelligent. That post was almost a literary masterpiece...

Writing it down isn't required. Actually with the given combinations of gear provided i knew my numbers, like most people do, you should be able to get close to accurate realtime. The parser is used to correlate hard data with player experience, it offers no advantage over a keen eye for detail during fights. It allows for people like me to put people like you in their place with hard numbers to back the player experience as opposed to simply allowing people to blow smoke up everyone's ass without a system of checks. I could prove the same by copy/pasting my log but i suppose that's cheating too.

I made it a point to know what's better over people like you when i did play. Therefore because i looked for information both in and outside the parser to be better then people who don't do their homework on what works, that's cheating?

In my world (and just about everyone elses) that just makes me a better gamer. That i would go so far as to share the information with the community, parser or otherwise, makes me a rule breaker but not a cheater. Quite the contrary. You can't cheat if you're not the only one with the advantage and in this case the parser is only a secondary means of validating the information provided by the game client.

You've been cordially invited to read this thread over again. Or for the first time as it would appear from your response. That last paragraph only shows how little you know about how the parser functions and what the user interaction with it is. The parser doesn't tell you what's better, just wether what you're using is working out. No different then you making the inference on your own. It would, however, give me two sets of data (provided i was a thinking man) to contrast and compare two different pieces of armor and how they perform. Something you could do as well simply based on the client information provided.

If that doesn't work out there's always this.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005LJEO.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

pictures!

Edit: i like how you're distancing yourself from the break in 'ToS breach= cheat' mentality. It shows, if nothing else, you are at least beginning to grasp this.

Oh and apparently you were absent the day the taught you how to spell kindergarten. Are we even? Back in my day they saved moral things like cheating for later on so you weren't stuck with a child's understanding on the issue.

 

[Uzor]

RoM, the bolded parts didn't say anywhere that writing guides is against the ToS.

The first bolded part, the:

4. The unauthorized use, duplication, transmission, display, performance or distribution of any items owned by you or third parties, or any other commission of any act of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement, trade secret infringement or misappropriation, or any other violation of any intellectual property or other proprietary right;

says you're not allowed to dupe items, and sell your account or anything on your account like gil and items. You're also not allowed to claim them as your own

The second part, the

8. SEI does not consent to or authorize any recording or reproduction of any communications with you. You may not record, reproduce or publish any communication with SEI. In addition to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, you may also be subject to criminal and civil sanctions and fines.

also doesn't mention anything about it being a cheat or against the ToS to write guides. It sas you're not allowed to record or reproduce communications you have with the servers. Read: you may not record packet data, or try to reproduce the way packets are sent..

Please do mention the part that says writing guides are against the ToS, 'cause neither of the parts you bolded (which you said proved that everything is against the ToS), show that writing guides is against the ToS.