POLNews - GM Policy (12th December)*Update* - continued from the other thread

[RoM]

The land of fantasy called, they want their unicorn back. All 3rd party software (ie anything that didn't come with the cd you purchased) alters the function of the game. It does things for you it doesn't do for me genius. Hence Webster's Dictionary definition of cheating.

You like dictionaries?

al·ter /ˈɔltər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[awl-ter

–verb (used with object)
1. to make different in some particular, as size, style, course, or the like; modify: to alter a coat; to alter a will; to alter course.
2. to castrate or spay.
–verb (used without object)
3. to change; become different or modified.

Parser does not alter the game or it's functions in any way shape or form. It simply displays the same information the client displays for you. Same information, different means.

A) It's technically a "cheat" but its not cheating...

Not mine.

B) It's a "grey area" and I can pick and choose the rules I obey.

It being a cheat is a grey area until such time as SE makes a comittal statement to expand the scope of what they consider a cheat. As no such statement exists, it is simply a rule infraction where no benefit or harm is done.

C) It's not cheating cause if I harass someone I'm not cheating but breaking the ToS

Like i'd go that far. Talk to Uzor about needing to get to bed early or something. There's sarcasm hidden in here somewhere. Gold star if you find it.

D) I have an advantage over everybody yet somehow no one is disadvantaged

I have a web browser, i read my log realtime, i read guides which rely on parser information without knowing it, i look for knowledge other people might not posses and might even benefit from. Everyone who doesn't is at a loss. Which means everyone who does these things is cheating because i'm comfortable with ignorance. Cry me a fucking river.

E) "Random declarative victory statement" after proving my point again

See above and below.

F) Whatever dumbass!

I like this one.

G) You spelled a word wrong score one for the grammar nazi!

You started it.

Did I cover just about every excuse you've invented in your mind to convince yourself you're somehow playing a game fairly by breaking the rules?

Didn't we cover the fact that not only do i not play but i never used the parser already? Yea, thought so. You get reader rabbit with christmas, you and Uzor can help each other out.

Oh and since you like pictures so much here's one for you:

See your ponch and raise you a banderas.

Merry christmas! :biggrin:

You win for being more fun than Uzor. Both of you are still trying way to hard to keep up with me though. It really does show.

 

[Bajaratt]

The land of fantasy called they want there unicorn back. All 3rd party software (ie anything that didn't come with the cd you purchased) alters the function of the game. It does things for you it doesn't do for me genius.

It in no way alters the function of the game, just like fraps or ventrillo doesn't.

 

[Skaw]

C) It's not cheating cause if I harass someone I'm not cheating but breaking the ToS

winning choice right there.

violation, but not a cheat.

 

[Trippyhippy]

winning choice right there.

violation, but not a cheat.

Exactly.

 

[Uzor]

I'm sorry i just had to go look at this awe inspiring flee hacking example...

Bravo. You tried. I hit the nail right on the head, half thought out and completely braindead. Oh how you must wish you're me with regards to this conversation. It shows. Grasping at straws like that. It's cute around this time of year.

Is flee hacking to get to bed earlier cheating?

Yes.

SE recognizes flee hacking as cheating and makes attempts to ban people for doing so. It alters the function of the game whereas the parser does not. Were i to need to get to bed earlier i'd be at a disadvantage over a fleehacker ... or not since i have a higher brain function and can simply type /logout whereas you, apparently, cannot.

Gold star for effort.


Now then how about you clear up your tab on unanswered points made on my end.

I'll save you the time:

Rom you're such a fucking newb. *Drool* *spittle* *hiss* *cry* Your words make my point, blah blah blah. quote quote quote, where did i say that? yadda yadda, i really didn't read any of this before i bothered sticking my foot in it. huminah fail.

With love,

Uzor.

Now since you've been harping on it so long please do give us all the rebuttal you've been saving up for at least 2 days now about how what i said is wrong even though it makes absolutely perfect sense. Srsly, baited breath.

Your deffnition of cheat is that it have to put someone at a dissadvantage. If you flee hack to go to bed earlier it doesn't put anyone at a dissadvantage.

Although you did help me out here. You said that if SE considers something a cheat, it is a cheat. SE considers parsing a cheat, so it must be a cheat, right?

I haven't been saving anything for 2 days. I said that you're apparently too stupid to come up with new arguments to counter mine. So for as long as you repeat yourself I won't respond. I won't waste energy on a half-brained geek that attempts to prove a failed point, and do so by using over-used arguments that have already been countered 10 times.

I have a web browser, i read my log realtime, i read guides which rely on parser information without knowing it, i look for knowledge other people might not posses and might even benefit from. Everyone who doesn't is at a loss. Which means everyone who does these things is cheating because i'm comfortable with ignorance. Cry me a fucking river.

Since you still seem ot confuse it, thi is the last re-used point I'll say.

Guides don't use parsed informtion. If you read a guide about how to do the ToAU missions, nothing in that is parsed.
If you read a guide about how to do your AF, none of that is parsed.

You seem to know know what a parser really do.

 

[Marajade]

Your deffnition of cheat is that it have to put someone at a dissadvantage. If you flee hack to go to bed earlier it doesn't put anyone at a dissadvantage.

Sure it does. You have an advantage over the person that doesn't do it, so you can get to sleep earlier, thus be better rested in the morning, so you'll be better able to claim that NM over the other guy who needed 10 extra minutes to get to his MH to go to sleep.
You have an advantage, thus he has a disadvantage.

 

[Uzor]

Sure it does. You have an advantage over the person that doesn't do it, so you can get to sleep earlier, thus be better rested in the morning, so you'll be better able to claim that NM over the other guy who needed 10 extra minutes to get to his MH to go to sleep.
You have an advantage, thus he has a disadvantage.

That's the exact same as saying if you parse the party to see that that one piece you bought apparently was slightly better, it puts you at a slight advantage over those that doesn't.

But oh, wait. He's not even a HNM camper. He's a lvl 50 DRK! Now what? He'll have an advantage over that other guy, because he needed that 10 min extra sleep in order to DD correctly? But the again, how do the person that invite them know that DRK is the one with better sleep?

 

[Makelith]

Thing thats wrong with that example, is that you don't keep parser info to yourself. If you do, just go online somewhere and look. Its probably been parsed before and put online so everyone can see. You can share your speed hacks with everyone like that.

 

[Marajade]

That's the exact same as saying if you parse the party to see that that one piece you bought apparently was slightly better, it puts you at a slight advantage over those that doesn't.

But oh, wait. He's not even a HNM camper. He's a lvl 50 DRK! Now what? He'll have an advantage over that other guy, because he needed that 10 min extra sleep in order to DD correctly? But the again, how do the person that invite them know that DRK is the one with better sleep?

Actualy, i said NM. LL, Spook, whatever you want.
How do they know that one DRK has the better gear than the other one who didnt use the paser? They'll have the same, because non-parser DRK can see the gear of the other one, see that he's doing better damage/whatever, and/or ask him about the gear.

 

[Tomasello]

It in no way alters the function of the game, just like fraps or ventrillo doesn't.

It doesn't have to alter the game in a physical way. That's what most of you don't understand. Card-Counting in a casino doesn't alter the game either except to present you with a little more data to give you an edge over the house. Yet that's considered cheating all the same. Your edge is being privy to data that you would otherwise not be without your third party tool and adjusting your gear accordingly. If SE was ok with parsing they would of enabled it themselves.

 

[Marajade]

It doesn't have to alter the game in a physical way. That's what most of you don't understand. Card-Counting in a casino doesn't alter the game either except to present you with a little more data to give you an edge over the house. Yet that's considered cheating all the same. Your edge is being privy to data that you would otherwise not be without your third party tool and adjusting your gear accordingly. If SE was ok with parsing they would of enabled it themselves.

Wrong part bolded. You do have acess to this information without a parser. they're just .txt files, you can open them in wordpad. Heck, model viewer is more of a hack if you use that anaology, because very few programs know how to correctly interpret .dat files.

 

[Chasym]

You'd have to ask some of the botters(Chasym?), but I'd be surprised if there wasn't an option to automatically engage the mob. Regardless, it's still carrying out it's function without you present at the controls, saying that it's doing nothing else is completely irrelevant.

bots DO IN FACT auto attack mobs, FFXI APP even had a feature that let you stand there with your weapon out the entire time you camped a mob, But to everyone else you looked like you were just standing there in non attack mode. When the mob spawns you would then warp to, walk to or whatever to the mob automatically and engage battle without hitting anything yourself.
i would camp things while i was out at a restauraunt eating somewhere for a few hours and come back to see what i got anything.

even simple bots such as argus auto attack. That is a very common bot command that is almost a must for someone who bots.
it even sets off an alarm when it pops incase you might need to pop a few macros for a sure win or something.
hell it gets even as complex as making the mob spawn NEAR YOU even if it spawned somewhere else on someone elses screen, on your screen its right in front of you and does a little mirror code making the game believe you are the NM then reflecting it off of you to the NM itself letting you claim it from any distance and ta da, magic impossible claim from wherever you decided to camp. Fight, kill, reset, begin camping again.
All while taking a nap.

 

[RoM]

Your deffnition of cheat is that it have to put someone at a dissadvantage. If you flee hack to go to bed earlier it doesn't put anyone at a dissadvantage.

I'm sorry, since when the fuck do you comprehend anything i have to say. My definition of a cheat varies. One of the criteria is that someone must be disadvantaged. I'm not the one who went on record about any set number of criteria. You and the meager flock of fucktards who agree with you on this topic did by labeling it solely as a breach in ToS. Remember those grey areas i was yacking about wherein the moral/ethical dilemma of a cheat is a huge grey area where the sole opposition to a defining characteristic is the people involved in conversation? How soon we forget.

Although you did help me out here. You said that if SE considers something a cheat, it is a cheat. SE considers parsing a cheat, so it must be a cheat, right?

SE has never named the parser as a cheat. Find a source or you're blowing smoke. The fact is it's a rule violation, nothing more. The ToS does not assign the designation of a 'cheat' to something. It simply states what breaks the rules. I could be so bold as to say that the ToS actually mentions nothing in the way of cheating but i'm sure that absolutely imperical statement would make your tiny head explode.

I haven't been saving anything for 2 days. I said that you're apparently too stupid to come up with new arguments to counter mine. So for as long as you repeat yourself I won't respond. I won't waste energy on a half-brained geek that attempts to prove a failed point, and do so by using over-used arguments that have already been countered 10 times.

11. Fail. You're still responding. Not only that you've been tapdancing for at least 7 pages now.

Since you still seem ot confuse it, thi is the last re-used point I'll say.

Guides don't use parsed informtion. If you read a guide about how to do the ToAU missions, nothing in that is parsed.
If you read a guide about how to do your AF, none of that is parsed.

You seem to know know what a parser really do.

You still seem to be confused. I sighted a guide that used parsed information. I bet i can find plenty more on SE approved sites that go alot more in depth. But you probably didn't read that any better than any other response you've gotten. Meanwhile the guides you refer to are founded, for the most part, on datamining. Which is perfectly ok even though SE has gone on the record about that, right? No cheating there because the guide doesn't do the quest for you, it just tells you how to do it. Much like the parser doesn't gear you but tells you how it's doing. Oh snap....

But if you read a guide about say .. being a war/mnk/rdm/drg/etc chances are if it's anywhere near accurate the information is either parsed first or second hand. You're samples are too narrow, which is why your argument does not work.

But you knew all this already, it's in the last 25 pages. Hey if you didn't i'd hardly call it my fault. Think before you speak to me next.

 

[RoM]

It doesn't have to alter the game in a physical way. That's what most of you don't understand. Card-Counting in a casino doesn't alter the game either except to present you with a little more data to give you an edge over the house. Yet that's considered cheating all the same. Your edge is being privy to data that you would otherwise not be without your third party tool and adjusting your gear accordingly. If SE was ok with parsing they would of enabled it themselves.

The house doesn't count cards. The house also doesn't show you the face value of every hand immediately as it's dealt only to delete the hand played 5 games ago from everyone but it's memory.

By doing so you have altered the parameters of what is required to gain over the house. This is why it's a cheat. Learn about poker sometime. Terrible example to make when speaking about MMOs, it's just a bad comparison. It also helps not speaking to people who know how to count cards and what the implications of doing so are.

Parsing is done by SE. It's called your combat log. Check it out sometime... but shhhh, it's a secret. No one's allowed to see the numbers they do in relation to their gear, amirite?

Of course fucking not, dumbass.

You keep ragging on about how this is somehow privy information that no one gets access too when it's posted on the screen every fucking time you attack something or cast a spell. How hard is that to grasp?

Btw, no love for the Antonio? I got you, no shame in it... laugh.

 

[Andreva]

At this point RoM, I have but one thing to say to you on this subject:

Testicles.

That is all.

 

[RoM]

At this point RoM, I have but one thing to say to you on this subject:

Testicles.

That is all.

It's ok everyone, he's retarded.

*completes the quote*

Merry christmas you sexy bitch. :nyam:

 

[Andreva]

Haha. Just felt like like some minor comedy derailment to brighten up yer day. Merry Giftmas man.


Edit: And, to make this day complete and totally appropriate; post 420!

 

[RoM]

I got coal and an email with a link to this thread claiming it was for picking on the mentally challenged before, during, and eventually after christmas.

 

[Andreva]

Well, look at the bright side. With all that coal you're earning, when the energy crisis rolls around, you're set.

"Oh no! The world has gone dark and cold!"

"Who laughing now bitches?! NO COAL FOR J00!"

 

[Tomasello]

Terrible example to make when speaking about MMOs, it's just a bad comparison.

It's an excellent comparision but obviously none of you can understand it.

You sit there in the casino and watch every card that's dealt and 6 decks later are you able to remember EXACTLY how many Jacks, Queens, Kings, Aces and number cards were dealt so you know how to bet? Even though it flashed right before your very eyes? No, you can't without a system, not without card counting, not without CHEATING.

Now you play your character in ffxi for 3 hours exping away. Are you able to remember exactly who did how much damage and what your average per hour was in which gear? Even though it flashed right before your very eyes? No, you can't without a system, not without parsing it, not without CHEATING.

"Random declarative victory statement placed here".

P.S. I was talking about Blackjack. How can you count cards in Poker if you can't see them most of the time? Maybe you should learn how to play Poker first.