ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

Rappa said:
THF/NIN. Despite what you seem to have yourselves convinced about, that cute little dual wield isn't making you do any more damage. This is one that could kinda waffle back and forth depending on the gear you can afford, but if you load up on the right stuff and bust out berserk, warcry, etc from /WAR, you'll notice a huge difference. I don't wanna hear "But whaaaaa, I have to pull" as an excuse either. You're evasion whores, and you can hit mobs from far enough away that they can't catch you, unless you fail at pulling too.
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I agree 100%, THF/WAR just does so much more DMG on SATA and SATA WS that I stopped leveling THF because everyone wants me to sub NIN and I really hate it. I mean if I'm pulling crabs or crawlers or anything else that is slow as molassas, I never use shadows anyway. I hate throwing away Shihie because my shadows WORE OFF. Not because they were ate up by the mob. Now against raptors...yeah those fuckers can catch you if you are fleeing. I'll use /NIN for pulling those.

Rappa said:
DRK/NIN. Now I use this myself sometimes, but only in dynamis and you can sure as hell expect me to have a scythe in my hand. You aren't a war, don't pretend to be one. If you wanna dual wield, level war or bst (yes, I think bst/nin is fine cause they have axe skill). Best case (as in, not in a cannon so you can sub what you want) you'd best have /WAR on doing the 1337 dmg with your scythe.
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I dissagree with this. From 56-60 DRK/NIN is the single most damaging job in the game. My buddy is an Elvaan DRK that subbed NIN at those levels and was doing constant 1300+ rampages on the poor little crabs in Kuftal, and I think his high was a 1600 rampage on a raptor in Cape Terrigan. If you do go this route though, make sure you have a PLD tank that knows what Cover is though. Once DRK get Guilotine though, sub THF and MPK some NINs.
 
Rappa said:
Is this a serious post or a joke? I honestly can't tell. "Thf's arn't out there to get good damage for every hit." THEN WHAT THE FUCK AM I INVITING YOU FOR?!
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I thought it was for SATA WS. but hey I could be wrong no?
 
Uzor said:
I do agree with you on COR, but your statement for BLU is 100% pure bullshit. You can't be more wrong.
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Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Enlighten us as to how blu/nin is not a gimped up piece of shit, I'd love to hear it. Nothing in your post tells me how dual wielding and utsusemi has any point to anything.
 
agreed on cor dont think you guys do enough damage to warrant a second racc+ dagger but this was @ a lv30 pt so maybe you guys get stronger with more gear havent seen one on my rdm yet

thf/nin....idk what to say about that thf/war would be my choice over it like some others i just like dealing more damage and not rely on one or two moves but thats the spoiled rdm side of me if that makes sense(read:wants to do it all in a pt except melee)

drk/nin not 75 so cant touch it seen it @ 56 but i think the drk was gimp really to make it look good

not touching blu/nin yet i would still prefer /war even if my phys spells dont get the zerk boost my regular dd does since you have refueling it makes a difference so you dont have to rely on someones haste which you often wont get. but haste does overwrite refueling's effects.

Also is blu using a club really worth it as a main as the better and more accurate sword?! I really saw that our skill is B+ and sword A- but really now...not many of the wses compare unless its True Strike and that wasnt even used for self SC
 
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Rappa said:
Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Enlighten us as to how blu/nin is not a gmiped up piece of shit, I'd love to hear it. Nothing in your post tells me how dual wielding and utsusemi has any point to anything.
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Easy. Doing 1200 damage in 10 sec will surely make you pull hate. Utsusemi is for not being a MP sponge.

Reason most believe BLU/NIN sucks is because mots BLU's suck. That's a fact. Our main source of damage is from spells. As BLU/NIN, I could easily pull out over 1,200+ damage per fight from only 1 spell and a a Vorpal Blade, and I almost always get over 100% TP every fight. Added to this is around 50-60 damage per sword, and remember that with Dual Wield you'll attack faster, but still get the same TP. Doing 1200+ per fight will most likely pull hate.

If you're a BLU/THF on the other hand, you'll attack half as fast, thus doing half that damage through melee hits. Additionally, you'll only do good damage with Death Scissors if you have TP. Sure, you can do 600 damage with Sneak Attack not stacked witth Chain Affinity, but I do more then that with a single Disseverment. You can't also use any other spell unless you want to pull hate, thus resulting in being a MP sponge. You also have to save your TP in order to do a 100% TP Chain Affinity Death Scissors for 1200 damage, but I do the same each fight, and you can only do it every 2 min. And remember that a BLU/NIN still did more damage to the mob because of melee hits through swords.
 
Uzor said:
Easy. Doing 1200 damage in 10 sec will surely make you pull hate. Utsusemi is for not being a MP sponge.

Reason most believe BLU/NIN sucks is because mots BLU's suck. That's a fact. Our main source of damage is from spells. As BLU/NIN, I could easily pull out over 1,200+ damage per fight from only 1 spell and a a Vorpal Blade, and I almost always get over 100% TP every fight. Added to this is around 50-60 damage per sword, and remember that with Dual Wield you'll attack faster, but still get the same TP. Doing 1200+ per fight will most likely pull hate.

If you're a BLU/THF on the other hand, you'll attack half as fast, thus doing half that damage through melee hits. Additionally, you'll only do good damage with Death Scissors if you have TP. Sure, you can do 600 damage with Sneak Attack not stacked witth Chain Affinity, but I do more then that with a single Disseverment. You can't also use any other spell unless you want to pull hate, thus resulting in being a MP sponge. You also have to save your TP in order to do a 100% TP Chain Affinity Death Scissors for 1200 damage, but I do the same each fight, and you can only do it every 2 min. And remember that a BLU/NIN still did more damage to the mob because of melee hits through swords.
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...Here it is again. Why do people keep saying Dual Wield doubles TP gain? 15% is not 100%. Christ.
 
Willian said:
...Here it is again. Why do people keep saying Dual Wield doubles TP gain? 15% is not 100%. Christ.
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Where did I say it boosts TP gain? I said this;

Uzor said:
Added to this is around 50-60 damage per sword, and remember that with Dual Wield you'll attack faster, but still get the same TP.
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Learn to read.
 
Uzor said:
If you're a BLU/THF on the other hand, you'll attack half as fast, thus doing half that damage through melee hits.
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Right there, Spanky.
 
Uzor said:
And remember that a BLU/NIN still did more damage to the mob because of melee hits through swords.
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You are aware that with dualwield you add up the delay of BOTH your weapons, and dualwieldII allows you to remove 15% of that delay, so in all reality you arent really attacking much faster just cause you are dualwielding. Not to forget subbing war you get double attack wich probably about evens it up with the 15% delay cut from dualwield. And you scoffed off berserk cause it did nothing for your spells, but it most certanly does something for the meleedmg you are talking about now.

Saying you need utsusemi to survive is one thing, saying you do more dmg with /nin is probably far far away from the truth.
 
Uzor said:
Easy. Doing 1200 damage in 10 sec will surely make you pull hate. Utsusemi is for not being a MP sponge.

Reason most believe BLU/NIN sucks is because mots BLU's suck. That's a fact. Our main source of damage is from spells. As BLU/NIN, I could easily pull out over 1,200+ damage per fight from only 1 spell and a a Vorpal Blade, and I almost always get over 100% TP every fight. Added to this is around 50-60 damage per sword, and remember that with Dual Wield you'll attack faster, but still get the same TP. Doing 1200+ per fight will most likely pull hate.

If you're a BLU/THF on the other hand, you'll attack half as fast, thus doing half that damage through melee hits. Additionally, you'll only do good damage with Death Scissors if you have TP. Sure, you can do 600 damage with Sneak Attack not stacked witth Chain Affinity, but I do more then that with a single Disseverment. You can't also use any other spell unless you want to pull hate, thus resulting in being a MP sponge. You also have to save your TP in order to do a 100% TP Chain Affinity Death Scissors for 1200 damage, but I do the same each fight, and you can only do it every 2 min. And remember that a BLU/NIN still did more damage to the mob because of melee hits through swords.
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Nothing in this is convincing me of anything. Any benefit from dual wield is lost by the loss of double attack, berserk, and warcry. If your argument is "lol I do too much dmg and pull hate too fast", then you aren't a very good dd and I wouldn't invite you to my pt anyway. A good dd does enough dmg to kill quickly without pulling hate like a jackass. If you start the fight with 1200 dmg, you deserve to die. I've always said that /THF is situational, but nothing will convince me that /NIN beats /WAR for blu.
 
Caerloc said:
You are aware that with dualwield you add up the delay of BOTH your weapons, and dualwieldII allows you to remove 15% of that delay, so in all reality you arent really attacking much faster just cause you are dualwielding. Not to forget subbing war you get double attack wich probably about evens it up with the 15% delay cut from dualwield. And you scoffed off berserk cause it did nothing for your spells, but it most certanly does something for the meleedmg you are talking about now.

Saying you need utsusemi to survive is one thing, saying you do more dmg with /nin is probably far far away from the truth.
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Do say that when you parse your damage. I'll copy/paste my own damage from one of the parses I did. In every party, 1/3 of my damage was from melee hits. And with spells/WS and melee, I do around 1500 damage per fight. Ranging between 1000 to 2100
 
Uzor said:
Do say that when you parse your damage. I'll copy/paste my own damage from one of the parses I did. In every party, 1/3 of my damage was from melee hits. And with spells/WS and melee, I do around 1500 damage per fight. Ranging between 1000 to 2100
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OMG parsing = h4x
 
Uzor said:
Do say that when you parse your damage. I'll copy/paste my own damage from one of the parses I did. In every party, 1/3 of my damage was from melee hits. And with spells/WS and melee, I do around 1500 damage per fight. Ranging between 1000 to 2100
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Saying what you average in a parse means nothing. I've averaged everything from 1200 - 2200, it doesnt only depend on how much dmg you yourself is able to put out, it varies vastly pending on what your fellow party-members dish out.
 
Code: 
 [B][COLOR=#970004][FONT=Arial]1 - The Sea Puk(IT)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
  [B][U][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill                
[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][/B]
  
[COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial]Uzor                     1522                     33,27                    378                       1144                     0                        
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]Azren                   728                       15,91                    728                       0                           0                        
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Grayswander      1293                     28,26                    309                       0                           984                    
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Midgetdude           1025                     22,4                      596                       0                           429                    
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[U][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Acoustic               7                           0,15                      0                           7                           0                        
[/FONT][/COLOR][/U]
[U]
[/U]
  
[B][COLOR=#970004][FONT=Arial]2 - The Mamool Ja Blusterer[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
  [B][U][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill               
[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][/B]
  
[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Grayswander      1044                     24,24                    320                       0                           724                   
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Uzor                     1066                     24,75                    253                       515                       298               
[/FONT][/COLOR]
  
[COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial]Azren                   1427                     33,13                    777                       0                           650                   
[/FONT][/COLOR]



  
[B][COLOR=#970004][FONT=Arial]3 - The Skoffin[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]
  [B][U][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill                [/FONT][/COLOR][/U][/B]
  [COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]Midgetdude           1073                     18,82                    936                       0                           0                      [/FONT][/COLOR]
  [COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial]Uzor                     1953                     34,26                    577                       880                       0                        [/FONT][/COLOR]
  [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Grayswander      1098                     19,26                    1098                     0                           0                         [/FONT][/COLOR]
  [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Azren                   1570                     27,54                    658                       0                           912                   [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [U][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Acoustic               7                           0,12                      0                           7                           0                     [/FONT][/COLOR][/U][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]  
[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]

This was when I was still 73


*crosses fingers that it shows up correctly*






 
Lol, that parse tells me nothing. I dont know what kind of food you where eating, it doesnt tell me what jobs you where parsing against, it doesnt tell me what gear they where using. For all i know you could have been parsing with 3 whm's.
 
That very party I don't have the total log for, but on another one its

Code: 
 [B][U][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill                     M Hit %                [/FONT][/U][/B]
  [FONT=Arial]Anmitu                  39159                   11,14                    27874                   26                         11176                   88,8                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Aloo                      73098                   20,79                    44162                   263                       28673                   95,25                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Uzor                     107658                 30,62                    33955                   64024                   9531                     85,94                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Blitzer                   117081                 33,3                      68822                   0                           48236                   90,52                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Daveman              106                       0,03                      0                           88                         0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Micah                    5232                     1,49                      0                           5216                     0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]SC: Fragmentation                             826                       0,23                      0                           0                           826                       0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]SC: Distortion       1905                     0,54                      0                           0                           1905                     0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]SC: Darkness       560                       0,16                      0                           0                           560                       0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Rygor                   5701                     1,62                      4310                     0                           1391                     85,11                    [/FONT]
  [U][FONT=Arial]SC: Light               317                       0,09                      0                           0                           317                       0.00                      [/FONT][/U]
  [B][FONT=Arial]Totals                  351643                 100                       179123                 69617                   102615                 89                         [/FONT][/B]
Code: 
 [B][U][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill                     M Hit %                [/FONT][/U][/B]
  [FONT=Arial]Uzor                     139082                 31,76                    47069                   75936                   15573                   76,55                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Neokarsh              80798                   18,45                    50812                   228                       29710                   74,39                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Rorixx                   29221                   6,67                      17665                   0                           11274                   74,55                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Snugglebunny      96533                   22,04                    0                           96533                   0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Gunner                 89960                   20,54                    58506                   123                       31279                   77,25                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Amora                  24                         0,01                      0                           0                           0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Raduhadu             1593                     0,36                      1142                     0                           365                       81,82                    [/FONT]
  [U][FONT=Arial]Darienn                 730                       0,17                      730                       0                           0                           66,67                    [/FONT][/U]
  [B][FONT=Arial]Totals                  437941                 100                       175924                 172820                 88201                   75,71                    [/FONT][/B]
Code: 
 [B][U][FONT=Arial]Player                  Total                    DMG %                 Melee                  Spell                    Skill                     M Hit %                [/FONT][/U][/B]
  [FONT=Arial]Uzor                     80411                   27,43                    27834                   43109                   9350                     81,68                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Silenas                 10                         0                           0                           10                         0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Majinboo               19424                   6,63                      15711                   306                       3407                     50,38                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Tec                       37896                   12,93                    0                           37896                   0                           0.00                      [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Fravan                  69018                   23,54                    49997                   0                           18978                   92,44                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]Othello                  85438                   29,14                    66998                   0                           18429                   84,32                    [/FONT]
  [FONT=Arial]SC: Light               968                       0,33                      0                           0                           968                       0.00                      [/FONT]
  [U][FONT=Arial]Alvie                     0                           0                           0                           0                           0                           0.00                      [/FONT][/U]
  [B][FONT=Arial]Totals                  293165                 100                       160540                 81321                   51132                   78,54                    [/FONT][/B]
Most of the time I do CA and SC with other melees randomly.

Also, from the top of my head, Blitzer was DRG, Otherllo is MNK, Grays was on his DRK, Aloo was DRK, the others are spread out between MNK WAR and DRK. The only parser that was on imps and flys was the last one with Othello.
 
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RNG/NIN is a viable option through all the levels. Not only is it 14 acc its shadows. 500ish + Sidewinders at lower levels always make hate really shakey and dealing that much dmg is pointless if the mob deals more back to you. But on mobs that take a piercing dmg bonus subb ing nin might not be bad because you dont even need sidewinder to pull hate. /nin is viable for most any job at any given time or another.

THF/NIN ??? Umm dual wield does increase damage over time you hit more often and gain less TP per hit so its the same TP gain but more hits on the way to 100%. And I dont know if you guys have done raptors or colibris or greater birds or puks or the long list of mobs that run faster than you but shadows are really nice. Thief/War can pump out the dmg yes but like right now, at level 63 I can offhand My Mkris and make TP nearly twice as fast as I can with /war. For colibri cannons I can basically Dancing Edge just short of twice per battle. THF/NIN is a largely viable option.

This post has nothing pro about it... /NIN though it is way overused is overused for a reason... We take more dmg than we can deal to a mob IT/VT mob. Therefore although one job may do less dmg to the mob it mitigates much more dmg taken because of shadows. Which when it comes to the most popular aspects of the game such as Exp or soloing or HNMs, damage mitigation is one of the most important aspects to cover because you cant deal damage if your dying right? The only thing that I have realized is pro about this post is /nin beacuse if your "pro" and have top gear you can sub ninja and do a fuckload of dmg and tank. now to me that sounds pro...

you should try arguing a point by proving that other subs have more potential than /nin. Because Currently /ninja can allow most jobs to not take any damage for a short period of time can increase your DoT and its a free Invisi on top of that.

/war gives you attack and a few more points in attributes but as soon as you pull hate your an MP sponge. So you pick up a few more dmg but take alot more dmg. I know this because Im a ranger and I sub warrior its great but if I dont kill the mob then I will die. Which right there alone lowers your total damage because you ahve to wait a bit before you can use TP sometimes.

/sam gives you TP faster but unless your in a cannon normal style parties generally you can keep up with the other melee for TP to SC once per fight.
You lose Shadows you lose Damage over time from dual wield and you lose alot of attack which you could have form /war. at 75 its a viable option but once again its gonna get you killed if you are doing spike dmg.

/drg which I dont know alot about looks like alot of fun for two handed weapon. Not sure what level the jumps are but its a TP and Damage boost due to the jumps it gives you and if the level is lwo enough you could erase hate but I think that jump is higher than 37 correct me if im wrong.

/thf is also a realatively decent sub job but it most situations except for blu it will hurt your DoT more than it will raise your WS. and lets not forget that SATA is on a 1 minute timer so at 75 blu/thf in a cannon would only be able to so spike dmg once every other fight. but at elast he wouldnt be taking extra dmg. He just puts the dmg on someone else and slows their dmg output because they have to tank now...

What Im trying to say here is in fact that ninja has the most benefits for most jobs of any Sub Job and if you have above par gear ninja is the best way to go because I do not need the attack to pull hate my gear compensates for it so I can deal massive dmg and not take any dmg in return. Same reason why Monks sub ninja for exp because its the only way to be efficient.

To Caerloc
And btw every 5 minutes I believe it is Drk can use something called souleater and when paired with K-club can out damage any job in the game I have seen first hand that Kraken is way more than it has "kraked" up to be... Save maybe monks 100 fists but they can only use that once every 2 hours so its not really a comparison.

Ohh and why the fuck would you sub nin in dynamis? the mobs should be dying so fast they only get like 1-2 hits off at max anyways. /War would be way more efficeint for dynamis because then everyone can kill the mobs even faster and less dmg can be dealt to your alliance. you arent making any sense to me at all...



Im stopping here there is so many things that I could keep saying but Ive already written a damn paper for FFXI which I prolly should have focused on writing for class.
 
Oh and above all, it tells me absolutely nothing about how your BLU/WAR would compare to that.
 
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