ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

[Rappa]

So what's the point of these parses again? Maybe if there was a blu/war in the pt or something they would be relevant but otherwise not seeing it. Also failing to see how dual wield did a damn thing here since spells are doing 2/3 of your damage.

 

[alanon]

Nothing in this is convincing me of anything. Any benefit from dual wield is lost by the loss of double attack, berserk, and warcry. If your argument is "lol I do too much dmg and pull hate too fast", then you aren't a very good dd and I wouldn't invite you to my pt anyway. A good dd does enough dmg to kill quickly without pulling hate like a jackass. If you start the fight with 1200 dmg, you deserve to die. I've always said that /THF is situational, but nothing will convince me that /NIN beats /WAR for blu.

Forget the Dual-Wield argument, survivability is enough. You can't list Warcry/Beserk/DA/etc as reasons to sub War, then tell him he's a crappy DD because he does too much Dmg as /Nin....

 

[Lanien]

WAR/DRG = fun ^^

And was Blitzer DRG in that one party Uzor?

 

[Firestreak]

If he's outdamaging all those people so badly, wouldn't /Nin be a good subjob for the fact he's probably pulling insane hate?

 

[Caerloc]

To Caerloc
And btw every 5 minutes I believe it is Drk can use something called souleater and when paired with K-club can out damage any job in the game I have seen first hand that Kraken is way more than it has "kraked" up to be... Save maybe monks 100 fists but they can only use that once every 2 hours so its not really a comparison.

Im well aware of this. The recast is 6 min btw. Im also aware that w/o using bloodweapon the drk becomes a mp-sponge uncomparable with anything else, wich is fine in certain situations, but definately not viable for exp. Im also aware that subbing in any other weapon in that case only is gonna slow the Kraken down, afaik most drk's sub war for this and berserk to boost their dmg even more, since they are gonna be cure-bombed either way, and they arent gonna stop to recast shadows during the short duration Souleater lasts.

So no. Drk/nin with Axe/kraken isnt all that its cracked up to be.

 

[Angeloxi]

/thf is also a realatively decent sub job but it most situations except for blu it will hurt your DoT more than it will raise your WS. and lets not forget that SATA is on a 1 minute timer so at 75 blu/thf in a cannon would only be able to so spike dmg once every other fight. but at elast he wouldnt be taking extra dmg. He just puts the dmg on someone else and slows their dmg output because they have to tank now...

/thf is solely for TH, believe it.

 

[Rappa]

THF/NIN ??? Umm dual wield does increase damage over time you hit more often and gain less TP per hit so its the same TP gain but more hits on the way to 100%.

Also gives the mob more TP, which is arguably a bad thing.

And I dont know if you guys have done raptors or colibris or greater birds or puks or the long list of mobs that run faster than you but shadows are really nice. Thief/War can pump out the dmg yes but like right now, at level 63 I can offhand My Mkris and make TP nearly twice as fast as I can with /war. For colibri cannons I can basically Dancing Edge just short of twice per battle. THF/NIN is a largely viable option.

Yes, I covered in my opening paragraph that /nin has a few situational uses, though I pulled Raptors on drk/war w/o a problem. Gogo stun!

And btw every 5 minutes I believe it is Drk can use something called souleater and when paired with K-club can out damage any job in the game I have seen first hand that Kraken is way more than it has "kraked" up to be... Save maybe monks 100 fists but they can only use that once every 2 hours so its not really a comparison.

Because everyone who subs nin has a k.club/ridill.

Ohh and why the fuck would you sub nin in dynamis? the mobs should be dying so fast they only get like 1-2 hits off at max anyways. /War would be way more efficeint for dynamis because then everyone can kill the mobs even faster and less dmg can be dealt to your alliance. you arent making any sense to me at all...

You ever done the new dynamis zones? Dynamis-Buburimu is full of dragons that do annoying spam AoE that shadows can absorb. This also applies to AoE from orcs and other mobs, though for most dynamises you don't need it. If you are low on members entering a zone though, /nin can really help the taxed mages out, if you're willing to give up a bit of e-peen. Oh, and of course Dyna-Xarc vs ying/yang/DL.

 

[Uzor]

yes Lanien, he was DRG. DRG is good agaisnt Puks and dragons ;p

And I've partied with other BLU/NIN, BLU/WAR, BLU/THF, BLU/WHM on all other levels, but I don't save parsers that far back. Some were good, some were decent, soem sucked. Neither of the other subs impressed me enough.

Yes, BLU/THF did impress me on a per-hit basis first, but then I parsed the party and it showed up to not do that much different.

Its not really about the dual wield, its all about sirvivability and not being a MP sponge for the healer. When you od a lot of damage, you take a lot of hate, I ended up tanking in most, and that is with -3 enmity.

Also, don't pull the "They'll get more TP card!" Rappa. You forget that Subtle Blow helps. Also, mobs are designed in a way that they're not allowed to spam TP moves, other then some special mobs.

 

[Lanien]

lol Just wanted to make sure. I know he has other jobs leveled. And yes, DRG is awesome on birdies.

 

[Rappa]

Forget the Dual-Wield argument, survivability is enough. You can't list Warcry/Beserk/DA/etc as reasons to sub War, then tell him he's a crappy DD because he does too much Dmg as /Nin....

Er, yes I can. If he plans to Berserk->Warcry->WS at the start of the fight then he fails at blu/war as much as he fails at blu/nin. Just having the abilities isn't as important as knowing how and when to use them. DDing really isn't complicated, guys.

 

[Uzor]

Er, yes I can. If he plans to Berserk->Warcry->WS at the start of the fight then he fails at blu/war as much as he fails at blu/nin. Just having the abilities isn't as important as knowing how and when to use them. DDing really isn't complicated, guys.

Berserk + Warcry still doesn't do ANYTHING to BLU spells...

 

[Caerloc]

Berserk + Warcry still doesn't do ANYTHING to BLU spells...

But they do alot for the melee dmg you where just telling us how your /nin boosted so much.

 

[alanon]

Er, yes I can. If he plans to Berserk->Warcry->WS at the start of the fight then he fails at blu/war as much as he fails at blu/nin. Just having the abilities isn't as important as knowing how and when to use them. DDing really isn't complicated, guys.

Ok, so he subs Nin, does more overall damage than /war and never gets a scratch. Explain again how /war is better?

 

[Rappa]

Ok, so he subs Nin, does more overall damage than /war and never gets a scratch. Explain again how /war is better?

Where is the "does more overall damage than /war" part coming from?

 

[alanon]

Where is the "does more overall damage than /war" part coming from?

Have you not been reading Uzor's posts?

 

[Angeloxi]

THF/NIN. Despite what you seem to have yourselves convinced about, that cute little dual wield isn't making you do any more damage. This is one that could kinda waffle back and forth depending on the gear you can afford, but if you load up on the right stuff and bust out berserk, warcry, etc from /WAR, you'll notice a huge difference. I don't wanna hear "But whaaaaa, I have to pull" as an excuse either. You're evasion whores, and you can hit mobs from far enough away that they can't catch you, unless you fail at pulling too.

Actually, depending on sub weapon (Mkris, Kraken) THF/NIN is quite good at giving the mob TP and gaining TP as well. Or maybe we go with THF Knife because all we care about is THII+ for crystals or something and we want...what? Garuda's Dagger for AGI+3 Att+7 zomg. Then again THF/NIN to 75...what is your evasion skill if you didn't spend hours steal+hide EM+ gold beastcoin yags or gobs? hmmm...btw, THF/DRK is real nice since souleater stacks with DE...or whatever, but we choose THF/NIN because we are too lazy to level shielding also I guess.

 

[Rappa]

Have you not been reading Uzor's posts?

I have, and so far none of them imply that /nin is doing more damage than /war.

 

[Caerloc]

Have you not been reading Uzor's posts?

The ones where he failed to realize how Dualwield works or the one where he failed to show a parse comparing BLU/NIN to BLU/WAR?

 

[Angeloxi]

THF/DRK is real nice since souleater stacks with DE...

Hmmm...since I was bored enough to quote myself, I forgot to say than hey, THF74+/DRK37 can actually stun those mobs woot ! let all THF sub DRK henceforth...or wait we didn't level DRK because everyone wants NIN ; ; boo.

 

[Zoolander]

Uzor's parses showed that almost all of his DMG comes from his SPELLS. /war does nothing for his SPELLS. /NIN gives him defense since hes dishing out so much dmg so he doesnt have to worry about pulling hate, what is hard about this?

How does nin help him do more dmg? He doesnt have to worry about pulling hate like he would with /war. He can do his thing the entire fight instead of holding back. Same reason mnk's sub nin.

And unlike mnks, at least /nin does infact increase his attack speed, thus increasing his melee dmg a little higher.