ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

[Tagrineth]

/nod, only thing i disagree with is the meat on drk, ive tried meat on drk and if ur subbing war with zerk and the 3 attack bonuses i cant notice the meat at all lol hell i have 478 base attack /whm lol. rather use sushi.

Depends on what you're up against and if you have a bard. Attack doesn't "cap" on merit mobs until you have anywhere from 600 to 800. Most mobs in Caedarva max out at about 700 whereas mamool ja or other "harder" mobs (like abraxas) require 800. Trolls probably require 800 to max out PDIF too.

 

[Tride]

Who cares about 2k rampages? If you miss a fuckload and hit for piddly amounts of damage, you're going to suck. Know why ninjas are good cannon jobs? I'll tell you right now, it's not the 600-700 average Blade: Jin damage... Scythes hit hard as hell, and a double attack with 1 crit is like 600 damage. That's as much (roughly) as my average ws damage.

not to mention only time a drks rampage would be any comparison to a guillotine is when they souleater, when i can most likely match it or do more with just zerk and warcry lmao

 

[Uzor]

not to mention only time a drks rampage would be any comparison to a guillotine is when they souleater, when i can most likely match it or do more with just zerk and warcry lmao

DRK/WAR with scythe ftw. While yes, /NIN with axes can do rather good damage, its not as much as with Scythe. Especially not anymore with Absorb TP

 

[Tride]

Depends on what you're up against and if you have a bard. Attack doesn't "cap" on merit mobs until you have anywhere from 600 to 800. Most mobs in Caedarva max out at about 700 whereas mamool ja or other "harder" mobs (like abraxas) require 800. Trolls probably require 800 to max out PDIF too.

with zerk i have 600 attack w/o food or brd, zerk + warcry 626, zerk + warcry + last resort 728 lol

edit: forgot to say my base attack w/o buffs being 480 /war

 

[Tagrineth]

Even DRK/NIN is better with a Scythe than axes. =x

 

[Rappa]

Only, you didn't mention cannon parties untill recently. Otherwise I wouldn't argue with you.

Now to preface this, it goes without saying that /nin has its place in the game. Anywhere that you are most likely to take a lot of hits for example, like cannon pts, dynamis, certain nm fights, etc. In these cases where hits are unavoidable and you are doing it to save mage mp then that's fine (though that doesn't give you permission to dual wield, more on that later). Also, it is SOMETIMES okay for certain jobs to use /nin at lower levels until they can benefit more from the traits/abilities of better subs. Having said that....

Pretty sure I did.

 

[Tride]

Even DRK/NIN is better with a Scythe than axes. =x

yes, yes oh god yes although id rather sub whm and nin lol...

 

[Uzor]

Pretty sure I did.

Then I'm sorry, and it seems we pretty much agree.

 

[Rappa]

For shits and giggles I tried axes recently in dynamis on drk/nin just for fun (maneater/tabarzin). I can tell you that my rampages were consistantly doing about half the damage that my guillotines did (death scythe), and that's not even accounting for the loss of berserk and warcry from subbing nin. No thanks.

 

[Tride]

For shits and giggles I tried axes recently in dynamis on drk/nin just for fun. I can tell you that my rampages were consistantly doing about half the damage that my guillotines did, and that's not even accounting for the loss of berserk and warcry from subbing nin. No thanks.

yea.. lol i dunno why people do it, things like that make baby jesus cry !

 

[Scaevola]

Is this a serious post or a joke? I honestly can't tell. "Thf's arn't out there to get good damage for every hit." THEN WHAT THE FUCK AM I INVITING YOU FOR?!

pulling, hate management, and excellent skillchain closing. and wrt your hateboner for shadows when pulling, until you have pulled a raptor, stop talking.


christ.

 

[meeze]

pulling, hate management, and excellent skillchain closing. and wrt your hateboner for shadows when pulling, until you have pulled a raptor, stop talking.


christ.

You're a fucking tard if you can't get back to camp without getting hit by a raptor, a bigger tard if you flee to pull and there are some right in the first part of zone.

I pulled there as DRK/WAR and RNG/NIN.

Edit: Your tank is a fucking tard as well if he honestly needs a THF to keep hate at LV 60.

 

[Scaevola]

You're a fucking tard if you can't get back to camp without getting hit by a raptor, a bigger tard if you flee to pull and there are some right in the first part of zone.

I pulled there as DRK/WAR and RNG/NIN.

That's not the point. Shit happens. Links on the return, unfortunate pops, lag spikes, whatever. If you're going THF/WAR, you have the option of turning off Berserk to keep yourself from dying, or at the very least going in the red, but if you do that, you're nerfing your damage until the ability cools. Utsusemi lets you ignore this. Hell, if you're lucky, it will keep you alive long enough tanking an add you brought back for the RDM to remember where he macroed Sleep. This thread is in the context of lower parties, and in lower parties, everything has a way of going wrong.

On the subject of lower parties, THF dominates from 33-60 solely on the basis of the retarded Distortion closing it can do with Viper Bite. Anything a THF can do to pump his DEX at this level gives massive returns, and offhanding a Mithran Scimitar as soon as you get VB easily balances out the benefit you get from Berserk.

imo.

Edit: Your tank is a fucking tard as well if he honestly needs a THF to keep hate at LV 60.

Then why even invite a THF?

EDIT: people have been arguing about whether /NIN or /WAR is a better sub for THF for years now. I'm not going to pretend I have some great insight to offer as to why /NIN is better damage; honestly, it's probably not. But to say THF gets nothing considerable out of subbing NIN in lower level parties is just retarded.

 

[Stouter]

and Stouter, I know exactly the benefits of /THF. And the only time /THF is highly superior to any other sub is against HNM's.

You've obviously never played BLU. In all honesty, /THF sub *SUCKS* past 70. That's a fact. When yo u can do over 1,200 with 2 spells in less then 10 sec, why on earth would you like to sub THF? Any BLU subbing THF past 70 is gimp. Seriously. Wow, so you can do 1200 damage every 2 min? That's cute. Now stfu and go sub NIN.

THF sub isn't really that good pre-70 either. Seriously, you should try lvling BLU and parse BLU/NIN vs BLU/THF someitmes before you go talk. Don't go all high-single-damage happy. Its about DoT, not direct damage.

Your biggest reason for subbing Nin was that you did too much damage and pulled hate, if a third of your damage was put on the tank's hate list, this wouldn't be an issue. Where is the superior damage of /nin over /thf, dual wield?

 

[meeze]

If you're going THF/WAR, you have the option of turning off Berserk to keep yourself from dying, or at the very least going in the red, but if you do that, you're nerfing your damage until the ability cools. Utsusemi lets you ignore this.

Sorry, but cancelling berserk takes you back down to your base att, it doesn't nerf it. Utsusemit doesn't help with it because /nin doesn't add any attack at all.

Relying on Utsu is a crutch for mediocre pullers. You should have mob pops down by the 2nd or third chain and should know that a pop is coming.

On the subject of lower parties, THF dominates from 33-60 solely on the basis of the retarded Distortion closing it can do with Viper Bite. Anything a THF can do to pump his DEX at this level gives massive returns, and offhanding a Mithran Scimitar as soon as you get VB easily balances out the benefit you get from Berserk.

If I see a THF anywhere near a sword after they get VB I will slap them silly, especially when your main SC partners are DRG and SAM, two jobs that gain TP at a very good rate. Off handing a 236 delay sword when your mainhand is 190-205 isn't the brightest thing to do when you only have DW1.

You should either have two fed kukris, or off hand a sandy/hq sandy kukri, then offhand hornetneedle when you get to it.

I already posted /war isn't that hot in the 30's, and probably remains that way until lv 50 when /war gets double att. THFs att isn't that high to get excited about berserk. Once DA kicks in though, and especially once Triple Attack kicks in, /war puts you ahead of every THF out there. I dropped a few 800 VBs on Colibris, and backed that up with a few 600 VBs against crabs in Cape Terrigan

Then why even invite a THF?

To close Distortion or for "zomg he kan do 400+ damage every ws he leet". I've SATA VB'd my trick partner plenty of times and had the PLD take hate back, a few PLDs have even been shocked that they could when I suggested it. I know it can happen because I kept hate as NIN, and later as PLD.

But to say THF gets nothing considerable out of subbing NIN in lower level parties is just retarded.

I'll easily say they don't get anything from subbing /nin at lower levels, I'll just as easily say that /war isn't that hot till 50 also. I don't think either matters much pre-50, but after 55 /war is the shit.

 

[Uzor]

Your biggest reason for subbing Nin was that you did too much damage and pulled hate, if a third of your damage was put on the tank's hate list, this wouldn't be an issue. Where is the superior damage of /nin over /thf, dual wield?

Because Trick Attack is on a 1 min recast time, and most of the time the mob is dead before Trick Attack is ready again?

 

[Uzor]

But to say THF gets nothing considerable out of subbing NIN in lower level parties is just retarded.

This is a stupid argument. THF really don't get ANYTHING out of subbing NIN pre-50. You can argue all you want that shadows will help, but shadows won't do anything. Mobs doesn't run faster then you unless you pull raptors, and I don't remember fighting any raptors pre-50. At 50 you get Dual Wield 2, and then it MIGHT be usefull subbing NIN for that, but I dunno. I'm not a THF, so I won't argue about that.

 

[hellstorm]

DRK Clubskill = 220
Kraken base dmg = 11

Its not all its cracked up to be.

Everything already been said about the pros and cons of /war /nin /thf (even though when the person was making the cor sub list he didnt say /war which is dinomite sub for cor or rng.)

Any who I agree with caerloc about kraken. Yes it a great weapon it hit alot, but is overrated. I had arguement with drk the other say that keep argoing that ridill + kraken was the best setup for drk. Considering how weak sword is to that of axe there is no way ridill+kraken is better then axe+ridill. Also why is there always one these duel wield arguments they always bring up kraken and ridill. How many people actually own either? Lets see you have kraken which is 40-50 mil or get off LoO which drop rate is dang near that of thief knife. Then there ridill a ra/ex weapon that drop off fafnir/nighogg also pretty rare. drk with kraken+souleater = I hope you prepare to die.

In long run /nin become a merit melee best friend because he extends the chains. shadows absorbs aoe dmg which most mob dish out making less that the mage has to cure. extra dmg means nothing if he/she is draining the mage faster then he/she can regen. It true that people dont give other subs a chance and in alot of cases the other subs whould do better, but they go what they no works.

 

[Blancho]

too bad merc kris blows dick :\

What people fail to understand about the Merc Kris is it's NOT FOR THE DAMAGE if it was it'd be fucking amazing. But what Merc Kris does is give you a fuck load of more TP. When you hold a Merc Kris your basically holding 3 weapons in your hand. It's going to attack 1-3 times if it attacks 1 time well you got no benifit if it attacks 2 times your basically hitting with 3 weapons if it attacks 3 times your basically attacking with 4 weapons averages out about 2 which is like holding 3 weapons. When you do that and you eat ATTACK food you make up for any lack of damage on your ws's and look all the TP you get way better then using 2 normal weapons and sushi. I don't know about other THF's I average about 900-1400 a ws without attack food with a merc kris in offhand. So this arguement that merc kris suck is not only redundant it's fucking pathetic. TP gain you get will be incrediable if you don't beilieve me I will challenge any thf to come test me. And no THF's damage doesn't take that big of a drop because of your offhand weapon. You might lose 50 damage per ws not a big deal compared to the tp you gain. It's a completely differnt arguement on DRK's with the kraken club because between 11damage with bad accuracy and very low skill in that weapon to a A+ Scythe with 101 damage is FUCKING HUGE. With Merc Kris it is a THF's best weapon and it doesn't matter if you lose a little per hit. The TP returns ALONE are worth it.

 

[etchdog2000]

On the subject of lower parties, THF dominates from 33-60 solely on the basis of the retarded Distortion closing it can do with Viper Bite.

I would have to say 55-60 any WAR with standard gear could give most THFs a run for thier money. I know my war can do consistant 500-700 rampages. Pair that up with the fact that WAR DoT is so much better then THF. I would think WAR makes a better Distortion closer at this lvl.