ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

[Uzor]

I would have to say 55-60 any WAR with standard gear could give most THFs a run for thier money. I know my war can do consistant 500-700 rampages. Pair that up with the fact that WAR DoT is so much better then THF. I would think WAR makes a better Distortion closer at this lvl.

A good THF will parse about the same as a WAR. I know a good THF I partied with that parsed very good.

Although, I do suppose you actually need to parse to see what kind of damage they can do. Its the same with DRG, a good DRG will also parse well. But people won't notice untill they check the parser.

 

[Zethren]

I don't know about other THF's I average about 900-1400 a ws without attack food with a merc kris in offhand.

Is this WS with or Without SA/TA?

 

[Caerloc]

What people fail to understand about the Merc Kris is it's NOT FOR THE DAMAGE if it was it'd be fucking amazing. But what Merc Kris does is give you a fuck load of more TP. When you hold a Merc Kris your basically holding 3 weapons in your hand. It's going to attack 1-3 times if it attacks 1 time well you got no benifit if it attacks 2 times your basically hitting with 3 weapons if it attacks 3 times your basically attacking with 4 weapons averages out about 2 which is like holding 3 weapons. When you do that and you eat ATTACK food you make up for any lack of damage on your ws's and look all the TP you get way better then using 2 normal weapons and sushi. I don't know about other THF's I average about 900-1400 a ws without attack food with a merc kris in offhand. So this arguement that merc kris suck is not only redundant it's fucking pathetic. TP gain you get will be incrediable if you don't beilieve me I will challenge any thf to come test me. And no THF's damage doesn't take that big of a drop because of your offhand weapon. You might lose 50 damage per ws not a big deal compared to the tp you gain. It's a completely differnt arguement on DRK's with the kraken club because between 11damage with bad accuracy and very low skill in that weapon to a A+ Scythe with 101 damage is FUCKING HUGE. With Merc Kris it is a THF's best weapon and it doesn't matter if you lose a little per hit. The TP returns ALONE are worth it.

Mercurial Kris
Level: 50
Flags: Rare
Slot: Weapon
Type: Dagger: Kris
Jobs: BRD COR DRK DRG NIN PLD PUP RNG SAM THF WAR
Races: All
Damage: 8
Damage Per Second (DPS): 2.5

"DMG: 8" How much do you hit for with that thing? Does it stack with trippel attack? If not, then you dont really benefit THAT much from it, while your DoT suffers incredibly. Not to mention your DMG/TP given ratio. And dont give me the crap that THF's cant DoT so its pointless to try. THF can DoT fine. Especially after the dagger-upgrade.

Sirocco Kukri
Level: 69
Flags: Rare / Exclusive
Slot: Weapon
Type: Dagger: Kukri
Jobs: THF
Races: All
Damage: 26
Delay: 150
Damage Per Second (DPS): 10.4

Compare the DPS of Sirocco with the DPS on your merc kris. Even if you do attack 3 times EVERY attack round, your DPS still isnt even 75% of a sirocco Kukri, and thats not even counting the added wind dmg on Sirocco.

I think you really should parse yourself and re-evealuate if getting 100% tp at any cost really benefits you that much.

 

[Marajade]

Mercurial Kris
Level: 50
Flags: Rare
Slot: Weapon
Type: Dagger: Kris
Jobs: BRD COR DRK DRG NIN PLD PUP RNG SAM THF WAR
Races: All
Damage: 8
Damage Per Second (DPS): 2.5

"DMG: 8" How much do you hit for with that thing? Does it stack with trippel attack? If not, then you dont really benefit THAT much from it, while your DoT suffers incredibly. Not to mention your DMG/TP given ratio. And dont give me the crap that THF's cant DoT so its pointless to try. THF can DoT fine. Especially after the dagger-upgrade.

Sirocco Kukri
Level: 69
Flags: Rare / Exclusive
Slot: Weapon
Type: Dagger: Kukri
Jobs: THF
Races: All
Damage: 26
Delay: 150
Damage Per Second (DPS): 10.4

Compare the DPS of Sirocco with the DPS on your merc kris. Even if you do attack 3 times EVERY attack round, your DPS still isnt even 75% of a sirocco Kukri, and thats not even counting the added wind dmg on Sirocco.

I think you really should parse yourself and re-evealuate if getting 100% tp at any cost really benefits you that much.

DPS=! DOT

DPS of Sirocco offhand is higher, but DoT of Merc. offhand is higher because of the increased TP for more WS. However, this is only in TPburn parties where you fire off at 100%, and not standard parties.

 

[Mattaru]

All in all it comes down to a parsed dmg %.

 

[Caerloc]

DPS=! DOT

DPS of Sirocco offhand is higher, but DoT of Merc. offhand is higher because of the increased TP for more WS. However, this is only in TPburn parties where you fire off at 100%, and not standard parties.

I was questioning if the ws's he produces extra with it makes up for the low dmg the merc-kris itself produces.

 

[Zethren]

THFs usually don't fire off a WS without SA or TA. If you are doing that then your SA/TA will be ready before you get 100% TP again. Unless you somehow magically get 100% TP in like 15 seconds. If that is happening I can picture
SA WS, 15s go by WS, 15s go by TA WS, 15s go by WS, 15s go by SA WS...etc. Which sounds really good in the papers.

That is why I was asking him before if he was getting those numbers with or without SA/TA. Doesn't matter if you are getting all the TP in the world if you are waiting for SA/TA to cool down it is a waste. Especially when you are hitting for such low numbers and giving the mob unecssary TP.

This is ofcourse without Merits. Fully Merited SA and TA will cut the recast down from 60 seconds to 55 each.

 

[Damita]

Started blu 2 days back and i'm using /nin. Sue me. Sarashi & Suppa should help a bit with the dual wield thing. Someone posted the difference between /war and /nin a while back as subs for bst, it was pretty interesting, i'll try to find it...

Don't do it Dejan (Sarashi)... It sucks... It sucks badly. Don't waste the slot. You'll be better served with a life belt or swift belt.

 

[Claxton]

A good THF will parse about the same as a WAR. I know a good THF I partied with that parsed very good.

Although, I do suppose you actually need to parse to see what kind of damage they can do. Its the same with DRG, a good DRG will also parse well. But people won't notice untill they check the parser.

PROTIP: a good anything will parse well.

edit: except PUP

 

[Claxton]

/rng accuracy bonus is physical acc.. says in game that it enhances accuracy to phsyical attacks which i consider straight up melee... so it has nothing to do with ranged. Unless SE is hiding something about that job trait.

It enhances acc and rng acc, because they're both physical damage. Otherwise it would just say acc or enhances ranged accuracy.l

 

[Crosis]

I want to add that /NIN sub for Bard is very very useful for Pulling in U. Range. You have a bard. When you get a chance try pulling with /whm or /rdm. There is no way to outrun the demons, unless you want to sleep them and run to camp. That could work in non canon Pts. But for Canons /nin is the way to go in U range. Just about everwhere else Yes I agree /WHM and /RDM are better.

Considering most of the demons in Range and Ahriman are casters it's not hard at all to outrun them. And thats why you have stoneskin/blink/phalanx when they do catch you. It's also not hard to quickly lullaby with minstrel's ring/manteel/fast cast on. Your party will not be that far away if you are pulling correctly.

Stoneskin and blink combined take almost 30 seconds to cast. For me to have that kind of time, I need to pull 2-3 mobs at once, taking more damage in the process than stoneskin and blink absorb. Brd/whm gives status cures and curaga, period. Stoneskin and Blink are as useful as en-spells from /rdm. On the subject of /rdm, it's useful for cast cast only. No status cures, Cure III only, you're not doing any kind of backup healing with that.

30 seconds to cast Blink and Stoneskin? Huh? I have at least one of these up at all times in Merit party. Are you saying you never cast Ichi subbing nin? Cause I'm doubting that Ni is always ready when you go to pull again. And Ichi takes just as long. Fast cast is damn useful, you can pull the mob and sleep it before it even hits you. Also I have 400+ mp Cure III is enough to back up heal while keeping buffs on yourself.

As a brd in a cannon, I spend more than 95% of my time pulling, sleeping, and buffing. I often have so little available time that the healer in a cannon gets Ballad 2 only. I often take as much MP being cured as I save by backup healing. As brd/nin I take almost no damage outside of AoE, and all of a sudden have time to slip in Ballad 1 on occasion.

/RDM you get songs on your mages and melee faster, giving you MORE time to buff and more time to go pull. The only time I regret /RDM is when their is a status cure the healer needs help curing. But at least I can help them out by throwing out a Cure III, /NIN you help with nothing.

 

[Tride]

THFs usually don't fire off a WS without SA or TA. If you are doing that then your SA/TA will be ready before you get 100% TP again. Unless you somehow magically get 100% TP in like 15 seconds. If that is happening I can picture
SA WS, 15s go by WS, 15s go by TA WS, 15s go by WS, 15s go by SA WS...etc. Which sounds really good in the papers.

That is why I was asking him before if he was getting those numbers with or without SA/TA. Doesn't matter if you are getting all the TP in the world if you are waiting for SA/TA to cool down it is a waste. Especially when you are hitting for such low numbers and giving the mob unecssary TP.

This is ofcourse without Merits. Fully Merited SA and TA will cut the recast down from 60 seconds to 55 each.

/nod ~

 

[Sneakypants]

Fully Merited SA and TA will cut the recast down from 60 seconds to 55 each.

Well, 54 seconds and 56 seconds, or just 50 seconds if you opt to fully merit one or the other.

 

[Soujiro]

Any point in listing dream gear?

btw...

Ifrit's bow is only active when a party member has Ifrit out

Ifrit's BowLevel: 72 Flags: Rare / Exclusive / Not NPC SellableSlot: RangedType: ShortbowJobs: BST DRK NIN PLD RDM RNG SAM THF WARRaces: AllDamage: 40Delay: 360Damage Per Second (DPS): 6.67TP Per Hit: 9.3%Equipment Category:
Weapons / RangedEffects for Ifrit's Bow:

• Strength +3
• Ranged Attack +10
• Latent Effect: Increases Rate of Critical Hits

Reward from Quest:

• Waking the Beast

It looks to me that only the +Crits are latent. Where do you see that STR+3 would only be active if Ifrit were out?

Basically the majority of the people posting are saying that the reason to sub nin on blu is to blink off hate because of the uber 1K+ dmg spells they are putting on the mob. That's interesting because i don't see anyone arguing for blm/nin for the exact same reasons. Please don't say anything about blink/stoneskin/phalanx either, because everyone knows that they are not as reliable, as fast, or efficient as Utsusemi. If blinking hate is the primary reason, then by this mentality, everyone should be subbing nin, which isn't far from what people are actually doing anyway.

I haven't partied with enough blu to form an opinion on what is the "best" sub for the job. I'd say it's situational depending on pt setup/camp/target mobs. I stopped levelling blu at 44, and never subbed nin for it since it was pre-50, and anyone that understands dual wield knows that before DW2, it's essentially pointless. I've never merited with any, so i don't have an opinion on them endgame. Just because a job pulls hate doesn't mean that subbing nin is the best, otherwise let's have blm/nin for thundaga4/burst2/thunder4 spam and let them blink off the hate, or maybe rdm/nin or whm/nin so they can drop cure4 bombs and just blink it away. <que some jackass to chime in about the 3% part of the game where blm/nin, rdm/nin, whm/nin is worthwhile>

 

[Zethren]

Well, 54 seconds and 56 seconds, or just 50 seconds if you opt to fully merit one or the other.

ooo I see... Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Zethren]

Considering most of the demons in Range and Ahriman are casters it's not hard at all to outrun them. And thats why you have stoneskin/blink/phalanx when they do catch you. It's also not hard to quickly lullaby with minstrel's ring/manteel/fast cast on. Your party will not be that far away if you are pulling correctly.


Maybe I have been PTing in the wrong camps then, lol. I am not the type of person who will disagree just becuase I have not done something, have not seen someone else do it, even read it on a forum or something like that. Perhaps I could watch you next time you PT in the Range. I'd love see how you pull it off and the place where you setup camp. Thank you.

 

[Crosis]

Maybe I have been PTing in the wrong camps then, lol. I am not the type of person who will disagree just becuase I have not done something, have not seen someone else do it, even read it on a forum or something like that. Perhaps I could watch you next time you PT in the Range. I'd love see how you pull it off and the place where you setup camp. Thank you.

I can't stand Range because there are too many casters and AOE moves so normally am never there. But I'll assume your parties are roaming parties, if it is indeed a cannon otherwise Bard probably shouldn't be pulling. Many times mobs will cast AM, Aga's, Tier IV nukes, or loldrk spells so I don't see how out running them is that difficult. I didn't have a problem on /rdm anyway.

 

[Zethren]

I can't stand Range because there are too many casters and AOE moves so normally am never there. But I'll assume your parties are roaming parties, if it is indeed a cannon otherwise Bard probably shouldn't be pulling. Many times mobs will cast AM, Aga's, Tier IV nukes, or loldrk spells so I don't see how out running them is that difficult. I didn't have a problem on /rdm anyway.

Yes, canons. I hardly ever PT there either. A couple of times I have done a canon there when everywhere else was full. YOu are right sometimes those mobs will case a ga or a IV nuke, my trouble had been when they cast the dark spells, or the blm cast something else(short spell) they have bene able to catch up to me. And ofcourse WARs don't cast anything. Also problem had been pulling them from afar becuae everything around is dead. I think our camp position was not the best. And I did not have the /RDM.

Tell me, how much of a difference does pharanx make with the limited skill that you have with rdm subbed?

 

[Rappa]

Listen to Crosis, this man speaks the truth!

 

[Crosis]

Yes, canons. I hardly ever PT there either. A couple of times I have done a canon there when everywhere else was full. YOu are right sometimes those mobs will case a ga or a IV nuke, my trouble had been when they cast the dark spells, or the blm cast something else(short spell) they have bene able to catch up to me. And ofcourse WARs don't cast anything. Also problem had been pulling them from afar becuae everything around is dead. I think our camp position was not the best. And I did not have the /RDM.

Tell me, how much of a difference does pharanx make with the limited skill that you have with rdm subbed?

Phalanx isnt the real reason to sub RDM it just helps take off a bit of damage you may get. With Blink/Stoneskin you can take at least 4 hits maybe 4.5 with the right food/Phalanx and even more with damage reduction gear, wheres Ni you get 3. Now you aren't going to stop to cast Ni if you are pulling Demons nor would you stop to cast Blink/Stoneskin. And always can sleep if its bad.