ProTip: /nin sucks for most jobs

[Shady]

I haven't read this entire thread so it's entirely possible someone else stated this already.. but having /nin subbed at lower lvls say 30-50 is nice because of the dagger bonuses like poison on strike or blind on strike or whatever else I know there's a plethora of daggers with those kind of debuffs stacked on em that still do decent damage.

*edit* /em beats a dead horse.

 

[meeze]

Going from like 24-55 I rarely got hit, I even watched my Utsusemi wear off a fuckload of times. I'd be 2-3 hours into a party before realizing I wasn't even using it.

Let's get a real good test out. Find someone around my LV with no merits hand em a couple knifes, give me my knife, asshole naked the whole time and parse away. I think /nin would want corsairs/mkris, or corsairs/hornetneedle, I'll take a corsairs and we work a few mobs.

PS, To all DRKs out there, don't rock anything but GS or Scythe unless you got an assload of merits like Phraust.

 

[Khali]

well i have sword merits... plus i have a suppanomimi. What DM earring did you get? that might make a big difference... so that's an extra 5 sword skill and dual wield bonus.

Considering i'm a War, Sam, and Cor... as a war I love using G. Axe in parties instead of dual wielding Axes... Why? because i hardly ever get to use G axe any other time.. besides fighting gods. Some people just wanna do 'something out of the ordinary' because the first 70 or so levels they've used the same weapon(s) and it sorta gets... old. Now.. I know i shouldn't have a mind set like that as a DD.. but.. you have to keep the game interesting. Drks at lower lvls probably use Scythe, learned Guillotine.. then Switch to GS for spinning slash and sickle moon. so they can sa/ta and close light/distortion (respectively). Nothing is wrong with what you do.. and for the person that parsed the dmg of Sctyhe vs. Axes vs. Axe/Sword, that's cool but all that showed to me is that if you didn't have guillotine.. it'd probably be last. only being under by 500 or so dmg isn't that bad.. that's like a couple critical hits.

Yes Scythe with /war is better.. but is it gonna make some life and death difference if you use axe/sword or 2x axe instead of GS or Scythe... nope. If war's had a B- in 1h axes and still the A+ in G axe... we'd be having a convo about Wars should be using Raging Rush instead of Rampage. And already, Rampage is so random with its dmg as is that DoT makes up for it. Let people play the job the way they want to.. they pay to play this game... so let them do what they want. As long as you're dealing damage and not leeching xp or limit points... i don't really care.

 

[Trelution]

hell i can do 200+ nukes as drk, and 400+ MBs lol, (really need to give drk auto-refresh ; ; )

That was awesome... yet so wrong at the same time. XD

And Use your parade gorget like a good little boy!

 

[Sneakypants]

 

[etchdog2000]

well i have sword merits... plus i have a suppanomimi. What DM earring did you get? that might make a big difference... so that's an extra 5 sword skill and dual wield bonus.

Considering i'm a War, Sam, and Cor... as a war I love using G. Axe in parties instead of dual wielding Axes... Why? because i hardly ever get to use G axe any other time.. besides fighting gods. Some people just wanna do 'something out of the ordinary' because the first 70 or so levels they've used the same weapon(s) and it sorta gets... old. Now.. I know i shouldn't have a mind set like that as a DD.. but.. you have to keep the game interesting. Drks at lower lvls probably use Scythe, learned Guillotine.. then Switch to GS for spinning slash and sickle moon. so they can sa/ta and close light/distortion (respectively). Nothing is wrong with what you do.. and for the person that parsed the dmg of Sctyhe vs. Axes vs. Axe/Sword, that's cool but all that showed to me is that if you didn't have guillotine.. it'd probably be last. only being under by 500 or so dmg isn't that bad.. that's like a couple critical hits.

Pretty much can respond to this, 65+ if you are a DRK and dont have Ridill, if you use axe or sword, you are gimping your DMG. Ask any career DRK that has tested it in any way and they will tell you the same thing.

Nothing is wrong with what you do.. and for the person that parsed the dmg of Sctyhe vs. Axes vs. Axe/Sword, that's cool but all that showed to me is that if you didn't have guillotine.. it'd probably be last. only being under by 500 or so dmg isn't that bad.. that's like a couple critical hits.

This made me laugh, by using your terminology, the only reason Axe even came close was because I have rampage.....Which quite honestly was the pointless thing I read in your argument.

 

[Khali]

only reason i said that was because i saw a post earlier that said scythe was better by only a few hundred dmg. Unless i read that wrong, and if i did.. then i apologize for that.

I'm just trying to say that... /war, /nin, and /thf are all fine with me.. as long as you are dealing dmg... i only making a debate to say that /nin is a 'viable' subjob... I'm not saying it's the BEST subjob. But it just sounds like y'all are saying that if you're not /war when playing drk or whatever other jobs y'all have been talking about.. then you're wasting your time. That i think isn't true.

It just seems out of all this.. the faster you can spam your WS the better you are as a DD. So wouldn't that make drk/sam with new abilities a contender with drk/war? >.>

 

[etchdog2000]

only reason i said that was because i saw a post earlier that said scythe was better by only a few hundred dmg. Unless i read that wrong, and if i did.. then i apologize for that.

I'm just trying to say that... /war, /nin, and /thf are all fine with me.. as long as you are dealing dmg... i only making a debate to say that /nin is a 'viable' subjob... I'm not saying it's the BEST subjob. But it just sounds like y'all are saying that if you're not /war when playing drk or whatever other jobs y'all have been talking about.. then you're wasting your time. That i think isn't true.

It just seems out of all this.. the faster you can spam your WS the better you are as a DD. So wouldn't that make drk/sam with new abilities a contender with drk/war? >.>

No what I was saying was Axe/Axe and Axe/Sword DRKs that are /NIN are gimp. /NIN and using Scythe is much better. I go /NIN all the time for cannon type parties. Do I like it, no. But I do it anyways. I dont equiup axe or sword because I want to maximize my dmg.

/WAR still beats /SAM now imo.

4 Double attacks every 3 minutes =1 meditate.
Giving up Berserk and Warcry for the new SAM abilities I would say isnt worth it, but we will see, the abilities are still new. I have that sub lvled already so I could give it a shot, but I really dont think /SAM will beat out /WAR.

EDIT: No what I was saying was Axe/Axe and Axe/Sword DRKs that are /NIN are gimp. IF YOU DONT HAVE RIDILL.

 

[Khali]

really.. is that how often the double attack rate for war sub is? was always wondering about it. Store TP bonus is nice.. i think as sam sub you'd only get 2 percent tho... and you get zanshin now. But i dunno what the % rate on that is. It's nice to have double attack.. but you still have to connect with it, know what i mean? Maybe having a brutal earring would make drk/sam more effective or drk/nin with dual wielding axes or axe/sword a bit more effective. I understanad that scythes are awesome.. but like i said earlier.. some ppl may get tired of it and wanna do soemthing different. perhaps?

nvm about the first comment in this post that i said... finally understood what you meant. But anyways.. as sam main.. hasso gives some extra attack and then added 10 str for me.. along with i think 5% haste and some accuracy. I'm not saying drk/sam beats drk/war.. i'm just saying it's a viable subjob now. maybe add in a brutal earring to make it even better. you can keep hasso on all the time unlike warcry and zerk.. so it may be a DoT kind of sub.

 

[Tride]

But anyways.. as sam main.. hasso gives some extra attack and then added 10 str for me.. along with i think 5% haste and some accuracy. I'm not saying drk/sam beats drk/war.. i'm just saying it's a viable subjob now. maybe add in a brutal earring to make it even better. you can keep hasso on all the time unlike warcry and zerk.. so it may be a DoT kind of sub.

actually u dont get any attack bonus except from the few attack that u get from the 10 str.

Edit: Hasso is only +5str when subbed :\ +10str sam main

 

[Makelith]

really.. is that how often the double attack rate for war sub is? was always wondering about it.

I think he was just using that as an example. I notice far more then 4 double attacks in the span of 3 minutes. Since we are talking about brutal earrings, i don't have one, but thats another +5% double attack? Would just make drk/war even better if i could ever use it in a mert setting.

you can keep hasso on all the time unlike warcry and zerk.. so it may be a DoT kind of sub.

But how gimped is hasso when subbed, if at all. Thats the nice thing about zerk and warcry is that they don't get gimped. So unless hasso makes up for all of that, including double attack, it still wouldnt be anywhere near as good. Just because its viable doesn't mean you should use it. I'm all for being different if you can make up for the loss of choosing to do so.

 

[Tride]

really.. is that how often the double attack rate for war sub is? was always wondering about it.

yea its suppose to be 10% and Brutal earring being 5%, thats 15% Double Attack, sounds like a winner to me

 

[Jakey]

/sam has basically replaced /nin for those who use 2 handed weapons because with seigon+Third eye you'll now be almost as effective defensively well considerably stronger offensively compaired to /nin

 

[Khali]

That's cool then.. but imo.. /war, /nin, and /thf would be acceptable to me. I guess i'm just a guy who can take what they can get... probably from trying to make a lotta parties out of nothing. I dunno. If you know how to control your dmg as /war and not gain hate all the time.. then that's fine with me. If you don't know how or when to WS and you decide to go /nin.. more power to ya for trying to help out your healers. If you wanna go /thf because you like to sa/ta or etc... fine with me.

I guess when i started this game.. i've seen strange strange stuff... and this whole /nin stuff doesn't seem strange to me. One time long ago i was sam and another sam was in my party.. and he went sam/brd so he can use madrigal on himself. So if you think drk/nin with axes is bad.. i wonder you think of a drk/brd =P

 

[Beka]

Quick comment on the BLU debate earlier in the thread:

BLU/THF (at least Pre-70) Does the most damage. Sneak Attack stacks great with BLU physical spells and Trick Attack lets you put the hate on the tank give a decent party setup. (which is not always the case)

BLU/NIN - I often sub this when I'm not confident in the party and survivability might be an issue. Such as NIN tank with no THF or no one to voke for me to TA as /thf. Second best sub for damage. Yes, I put it over war for a couple of reasons. 1. you can use more spells without sucking up whm mp if you happen to cross the hate line accidentally, allowing you to not hold back as much. 2. I dual wield Musketeer Cmd. Falchion and Dual Wield 2 plus an offhand weapon with Acc+3 Att+6 keeps up fine with DOT. Especially since ACC DOES effect BLU magic, ATT (berserk) does not.

BLU/WAR - Only reason I'd sub this is to tank. There is not one single war JA that helps blu magic in any way as a sub. If Agressor was <37, then that would be different. But I have Attack Bonus from spells already for melee, and Berserk does nothing for blu magic unlike the extra accuracy from the offhand weapon which does help less spells get resisted. I do think if you need a BLU to tank or Dual tank even, that /war could be good.

If BLU only meleed.. no magic, then yes /war would be better for DOT. But since /nin can help melee some (dual wield 2 + offhand weapon stats), magic some (offhand weapon stats) and helps with survivability in questionable parties (utsu), it's my number 2 choice for BLU sub in party. /THF still wins in a good party though (again pre-70).

Soloing, I'd probably /whm. I don't think NIN offers much for tanking the whole time pre-74, only for tanking for some of the fight.

 

[K. Ishitar]

/sam has basically replaced /nin for those who use 2 handed weapons because with seigon+Third eye you'll now be almost as effective defensively well considerably stronger offensively compaired to /nin

yep to be expected wont be suprised if SE doesnt slightly nerf it like they did with /nin and its shadows and keeping merited dw from affecting other main jobs that /nin nothing major just nothing to keep it from being used as a good sub

 

[Zerayla]

Is Angeloxi a new account of Blazn?

Not relevant to the topic in any way or form, nor does it contribute to the discussion. If you really feel the need to post an antagonizing comment with the intentions to start something, keep it to PM but please don't troll.

Back on topic...

In all of what i've read, I have to ask... what tank were you guys partying with

You make it sound like you guys pull out so much damage that you're tanking the entire battle, hence the need to have shadows.

It sounds like those who have chosen to go as /nin are pulling so much hate, that the reason they're subbing /nin is to avoid being an MP sponge. With the exclusion of cannon parties (and having a NIN tank), I really haven't ever seen a DD pull excessive amounts of hate that the tank couldn't get hate back immediately, which just resulted in maybe one hit to the DD.

Anyways, in my experience i've always seen /war do better than any /nin (in regular xp parties) I'm definitely one that would rather invite a THF/WAR as opposed to a THF/NIN to my party, because i've seen the difference.
And on a side note, about BLU's.... I have yet to see one come out as the #1 DD in the party, they're usually one of the lowest DD's from all the ones i've partied with ; ;

 

[Tride]

And on a side note, about BLU's.... I have yet to see one come out as the #1 DD in the party, they're usually one of the lowest DD's from all the ones i've partied with ; ;

couldnt agree with u more, all of the blu's have been a waste of space in all of my pts, lol only time one actually did sumthing good was when he main healed and was /brd giving the melee minuet lmao

 

[Dowzer]

Not relevant to the topic in any way or form, nor does it contribute to the discussion. If you really feel the need to post an antagonizing comment with the intentions to start something, keep it to PM but please don't troll.

Back on topic...

In all of what i've read, I have to ask... what tank were you guys partying with

You make it sound like you guys pull out so much damage that you're tanking the entire battle, hence the need to have shadows.

It sounds like those who have chosen to go as /nin are pulling so much hate, that the reason they're subbing /nin is to avoid being an MP sponge. With the exclusion of cannon parties (and having a NIN tank), I really haven't ever seen a DD pull excessive amounts of hate that the tank couldn't get hate back immediately, which just resulted in maybe one hit to the DD.

Anyways, in my experience i've always seen /war do better than any /nin (in regular xp parties) I'm definitely one that would rather invite a THF/WAR as opposed to a THF/NIN to my party, because i've seen the difference.
And on a side note, about BLU's.... I have yet to see one come out as the #1 DD in the party, they're usually one of the lowest DD's from all the ones i've partied with ; ;

I really love to sub warrior for Ranger, but it results with me either holding back to the end of the fight to unload or sponging MP.

/NIN I can only get a max of 900 with Sidewinder and 800 with Barrage. /WAR with Berserk up results in 150-200 regular hits, consistance 1,000-1,100 Sidewinders and Barrage's regularly from 700-900.

High damage like this is really hard to pull hate from. Paladin's struggle to get it back, even when they Cover and Cure me.

Barrage, Sidewinder, and Eagle Eye Shot were all used in seperate fights. All level 57. All with Eurytos' Bow.

Btw, <3 Cover and anyone who can use it properly. I can take a mob from 50-60% - 0% with a Sidewinder > Barrage > Sidewinder. (Using a Gun so the positioning is high damage and the mob won't chase after me from a distance)

 

[Beka]

And on a side note, about BLU's.... I have yet to see one come out as the #1 DD in the party, they're usually one of the lowest DD's from all the ones i've partied with ; ;

It's unfortunately a job that attracts alot of bad players for the coolness factor. Much like DRK and DRG used to be. The job does fine damage if played properly. Sucks that most of them don't do so.