QCDN's future without a Flameboard

[Bajaratt]

I'm sorry but this just made me laugh. You really have no ground under your feet to make a statment like that. Considering that everytime someone says something different than how you think something should be done, you have some dumbass remark to make and about how they are an idiot.

I don't have a problem with people's opinions, I have a problem with people giving bad(and that's proven to be be bad) advice and acting like it's gospel. You're telling all white mages to melee in exp parties, that's not good advice; it's your opinion, but trying to convert all whm's to melee in parties is not a good idea. You're just following me around because I've shot you down several times already. I also don't just throw out insults or wildly attack people, I attack them logically, I prove them wrong.

Look at the " new armors" thread, it's my opinion that -cure casting time is worthless, but others think it isn't. That's fine, they can go for it, I won't; it's their choice. You've just taken me proving you wrong personally and just follow me around, that's all.

 

[Bajaratt]

Oh yeah, didn't Shaunessy quit qcdn to go to "better forums" but was back here within a week or two? That shows that despute our forum being an information dump like allakhazam, we're still a better forum than most. It could be due to trying to restrict all flaming to one area that people don't have to read if they don't want to instead of having it in most/every other thread on the forum.

 

[neophytal]

I hate to see a person's 3 year hard work got bashed just for 1 section of this fantastic website. However with all the respect to the hard work of sculli I do believe FB is not a good thing for our server.

Compare to other servers, our server seems to be still crawling in the stone age. How many NA ls had taken down the wyrms? How many NA ls had really went after the 3 kings? How many LS had any progress in sea?

When "A" ls makes a mistake, ls B, C, D will join the fest and bash them to hell on the FB. A LS loses some members due to the flame on FB and join B,C,D. 2 weeks later B ls wiped to kirin, and A, C, D ganged up on B and B loses its member to A, C, D. This is just a bad cycle.

Flames like these prevent A, B, C, D to work together coz at some point they all have beef with each other. What's worse? All those flames were DOCUMENTED. Remeber the best flame thread competition? Yes I can understand sometimes people need their place to rant and those individuals might need some help from getting jacked. But for all the endgame communities out there, the flame board just hurts the oppuntunity for us to work together or reunited. One member of certain ls did something dishonored, and the effect of the FB would automatically labelled the whole LS to be evil, FOREVER, no matter the member involved in the incident is still in the shell or not.

QCDN is a great site, just not the flame board.

its sad to see that you are blaming an internet forum for peoples inability to cooperate and/or team up in game........

the "server as a whole" being behind the rest, who do you want to blame for this? its surely not the qcdn flameboard. its the people as a whole on the server.... and i dont think you exactly mean the "server as a whole" because there are a few LS's that can do a majority of things on the server.

if a linkshell does something wrong as a whole-- you dont think word will spread otherwise even without a flame board? you are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise.

 

[meeze]

The majority of the people that I have met in-game don't frequent these boards, or any other boards for that matter. I don't think there is anything wrong with the FB, it is a good tool call people out who do post here. I think overall QCDN makes better players out of people as is evident by the many times I have typed out flames about people, only before submitting knowing they won't read it and deciding otherwise.

The majority of the players on here are people who stumbled accross it as I did, researching an aspect of the game that they were interested in. It took a good while before I started to post here (4 months or so), but since then the ease of which I am able to set up things for myself and for others has increased and now I can call on a number of not only in-game friends, but QCDN friends as well.

Most of my "fame" on QCDN comes from the FB, but I like to think that I have contributed in-game on events that they are setting up for themselves, or a group. This is the only forum I read about FF, only forum I read period, never been into mmo's prior to this one, and can honestly say I wouldn't have stayed playing as long, or come back if it were not for QCDN.

 

[Shaunessy]

I don't have a problem with people's opinions, I have a problem with people giving bad(and that's proven to be be bad) advice and acting like it's gospel. You're telling all white mages to melee in exp parties, that's not good advice; it's your opinion, but trying to convert all whm's to melee in parties is not a good idea. You're just following me around because I've shot you down several times already. I also don't just throw out insults or wildly attack people, I attack them logically, I prove them wrong.

Look at the " new armors" thread, it's my opinion that -cure casting time is worthless, but others think it isn't. That's fine, they can go for it, I won't; it's their choice. You've just taken me proving you wrong personally and just follow me around, that's all.

Please. You feel you shot me down huh. You are no better or worse a WHM than I am, or problably about 70% of the people who actually play WHM. You don't give sound advice you tell people how you play and condesend to everyone who takes a different approach to how you feel a job should be played. I'm not telling them too melee, I'm telling them they can. Funny because no matter how many times you've "attacked me" I still get parties, we still get great exp, and I still level up. Just so you know know though, there is nothing anyone can say on these boards that I take personally. Seriously though, come down off of your deluded cloud of importance. I'm not the one that has to justify things I say by telling other not to listen to what you say.


I did try to get my account erased but Sculli won't do it. His reasons were fair, and well if I have it I'm going to use it.

 

[Kyrial]

Honestly, I never visit the Flamboard unless someone points me to a particular thread and asks me to read part of it or something. Reading all that drama would make me not want to play FFXI, which would be sad, because I really love this game. I truly would not be sad to see the FB removed.

The only other boards I don't visit on this site are Off-Topic, Reality Sinks In..., and Final Fantasy Series. I've met some great people on QCDN, so I wouldn't say I have a negative image of it at all. Hell, I've gotten so many things done in-game through use of the Event Scheduling board; that alone makes this site in invaluable resource.

 

[Sabia]

People are capable of monitoring themselves and their peers without mods having to step in every single time. It's like hiring a babysitter to make sure your kid doesn't burn down the house - just because the babysitter is there, does this mean that the kid should try to burn down the house every waking moment just because he knows somebody is there to stop him? Probably not, common sense would dictate that it's a bad idea to set the place you live on fire, just like common sense would be to not crap on the community that you participate in. Using the kid/fire example again, lets say the kid has friends over who should by all means have enough common sense to know that burning down houses is bad. They watch the main kid start to set a fire, now they can either A) Ignore it and hopefully it'll fizzle out B)Add their own fire too it and make it worse, possibly increasing the chance of a full out burn down or C) Tell someone who can stop/prevent/remove the problem.

I know mods on this site do their damndest to try to keep things under control, but it's like being a babysitter that has to watch 500 kids who are for the most part really awesome and well behaved with a few bad instances/apples among the bunch. When I say it's good to moderate yourselves I'm saying we're mostly adults here and shouldn't requre 24/7 moderation in all our threads and if something does get out of hand we don't have to feed the fire and we could take the time to use that little PM button to let someone who can do something know.

I think in the whole time I've been a mod on this site (I think over a year now >.>) I've only ever had one or two people report threads gone bad. It gave me a chance to immediately lock/move them and avoid more grief to the community. Some threads tend to teeter on that little edge of what's acceptable and what's a flame and sometimes it's hard to keep up on it when it's increasing by 7+ pages a day. If you see something going bad for the love of god, don't feed it and just send a little PM so it can be moved/locked, keeping the board a positive environment for everyone.

As far as the flameboard goes I think it's good to air out your dirty laundry but just like real life, some things don't do anything but cause problems and are better left quiet. I'd like to see it be more of a heated discussion board rather than an "OMG XXX is so GHEY! He screws his mom and buys gill!" with absolutely no proof. Personal attacks don't do much for anyone, however the FB has given birth to some absolutely awesome conent, and if not for "look at me look at me" users and thread crappers has the potential to be the best section on the site.

Topics like that RDM Melee thread or the old Politics sticky were some of the best reads I've had on this site. They were intense debates that didn't resort to name calling, most people involved were able to keep things civil and respect others opinion. Do I think that there's a lot wrong with the game that needs to be discussed in the community? Shit yeah. I mean I was trying to spark some good relevent debate in the Beseiged thread but it just turned into a shit flinging fest.

The FB needs more content and less shit slinging, if that means changing it/getting rid of it or imploring more moderation with rules discouraging against personal attacks, so be it. It would improve the state of the community and weed out the trolls. Trolls have problems keeping up with good debate, and good debate is great content.

PS: People also have to realize that sometimes the community board doesn't carry into the game. Stuff that happens on this board should sometimes stay on this board. A good example for me is Elemmire, me and her duke it out non stop on the boards and probably look like we hate eachother to the community, but in reality we shared a Linkshell for a while and I consider her to be a good friend in game. We're both pretty good at leaving all the debate/fighting that we do on the boards and get along, doing events together, waving at eachother and helping eachother out in game. It goes both ways, some stuff in the game needs to stay in the game and some stuff on the board needs to stay on the board. People need to stop letting things get so personal, I know this game is a pretty big part of most of our lives but it still is just a game and should be fun.

 

[Valoran]

People are capable of monitoring themselves and their peers without mods having to step in every single time. It's like hiring a babysitter to make sure your kid doesn't burn down the house - just because the babysitter is there, does this mean that the kid should try to burn down the house every waking moment just because he knows somebody is there to stop him? Probably not, common sense would dictate that it's a bad idea to set the place you live on fire, just like common sense would be to not crap on the community that you participate in. Using the kid/fire example again, lets say the kid has friends over who should by all means have enough common sense to know that burning down houses is bad. They watch the main kid start to set a fire, now they can either A) Ignore it and hopefully it'll fizzle out B)Add their own fire too it and make it worse, possibly increasing the chance of a full out burn down or C) Tell someone who can stop/prevent/remove the problem.

I feel like the problem is that on a board whose name calls for flames, and whose tagline is "Anarchy reigns supreme," people do not expect to be asked to help put out a fire.

Many people here have argued that eliminating the flameboard will cause flames to spill onto other forums. I still believe that the mods to those forums can eliminate those flames. Trolling is like pornography; maybe you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. Furthermore, I simply don't believe that there will be an equal number of flames without a place to put them.

The flameboard is a magnet for anyone with any minor problem. The reason you don't have good discussions there is that it isn't what the board calls for. "Taming" the flameboard into a place for intense discussions is equivalent to eliminating it. As long as the board calls for flames by name, though, more undisciplined QCDN'ers will use it for "shit-slinging."

I really feel like the claim: "The flameboard doesn't create drama; it just puts it in one place," is simply wrong.

 

[Sabia]

That's why I think it's a good idea to evolve the flameboard rather than just get rid of it, You want to shit sling somebody, do it in PMs. The whole community doesn't need to view back and forth name calling between two people for 20+ pages. As far as the moderation point I brought up, you are going to see a bit more spillage into other sections if new ideas to get implimented, but if we work together as a community they can be squashed before ever becoming a problem. Self restraint and common sense are the best ways to keep things in check.

 

[alanon]

I only read a couple of replies, so if what I am about to say has been said already, then I apologize.

QCDN, is a wonderful thing and a great place for a portion of the community to come together. It makes it a helluva lot easier to accomplish certain things. It entertains and informs. This includes the flameboard. So much about this "community based" game has been made easier for me because of this "community based" board.

Here's the thing: Some HNM shells don't want to come here. Well who really gives a flying fuck??? Have you ever been to an HNM/God shell's forums? Even the private side of the ones that I have visited are baren wastelands compared to qcdn. Analysis? Those people are not the posting type anyway, so why in the hell should we cater to them? (personally I think it's more that they have drama to hide) KI or Alla has bashed this site? Have you seen the Q server forum for those sites? It's a joke. It's like a JV BB player trying to critique Barry Bonds's swing. Who gives a shit? Anyone who is a real forum user is here, who cares about the thoughts of people who aren't using forums anyway?

I like the flameboard. I find it highly entertaining. Granted, the content has kind of taken a down turn with people like Vang, fire and keits disappearing, but I still enjoy a good debate/argument with people like skaw, Baj, rones, etc (used to have fun with pere, but he's gotten tired and repetitive), as well as the funny interludes by people like cmdrfly and majorhavoc. Keep the flameboard how it is. How many good users have we ended up with because they either heard they were flamed here and joined or heard about a flame here?

 

[Firestreak]

There are 3 major problems with the flameboard as I see it.

1. Everything goes. This means people will go out of their way to be an asshole because they see it as someway their mission to act that way because they are allowed to. To which they'll usuallly say something along the lines of "It's the flame board who really cares?"

2. The majority of the community on the flameboard is very oppressive in their views. E.I: "If you sub that you should just delete yourself." "God if you feel that way just go play WoW."

3. People operate on views expressed openly not taking bigger evidence into consideration. Like for example, what is the community's REAL feelings on gilselling/buying? Well it obviously isn't so unthinkable as so many do it. It appears like a case of 1 minority oppressing a larger minority(I think the majority like me don't give a shit either way), and assuming because they're the only 10 people who post about it of so many thousands who play on this server alone, that everyone agrees with them.



I'd like to give an example of a case that the flameboard, as it is presently, can cause harm.

For example we were debating a potential BLM Nerf, some of the melee on that thread got a little overzealous, and started saying things like "BLMs who are like that are bad people, cheaters, I want them nerfed because I don't like them."

This was a shift from a talk about the balance of BLM and just saying you don't like people who play BLM.

So naturally, because the target was not the BLM job, in terms of balance, but all of the BLM who played the job, they took offense. This resulted in a person in game not getting a blackbelt item from blackmages they had offended.

See now, a debate about balance, very interesting. Broad, sweeping personal attacks, very destructive. Not to say the flameboard is to blame, instead of a person's self control. It's just the general community that's developed on the flameboard, which makes me somewhat relectant to post there.

Just look at the WHM tank thread. 90% of the people there said WHM's can't tank. It turned into personal attacks. In the middle I tried to interject an actual setup I use to tank as WHM and no one even responded to it. How could you respect to a rational argument when there's an irrational argument that's swallowing up an entire thread. So the message then, if you want to have a rational argument, do it on another board? Why not make the flameboard that board?

 

[Alerith]

The only problem with the flameboard is that there's no level of proof required to post there, and that the community doesn't want/need evidence to take sides.

This is a VERY good point. If prehaps there were regulations on what type of content could be posted, then it may ease things up.

Such things like:

Person stealing an account
Harassing Players
Sexual Harassment
Thieves
etc.

Should all be reported on the flameboard, just to warn fellow players.

Things like:

So and so is a fag.
OMFG this guy keeps stealing my mobs
Inflation
etc.

Are not vital to know or can easily be avoided by changing areas or moving to a different camp. As for inflation, screaming about it wont help.

The FB should be held more as a "Warning" board pertaining to certain actions that are not widely accepted.

Also, the person posting the flame should be able to provide screenshot evidence of the action, or not post at all.

 

[CubsWoo]

The Flameboard: Serious Business. If people want more moderation, I'll give it to them. Just don't bitch like what's happened the last few times the mods have tried to crack down on the flameboard.

 

[annabelle]

I never visit the flameboard. The name itself invites massive negativity, and I think the "no rules, anarchy reigns supreme" aspect of it really invites and encourages the lowest common denominater of posters. In fact, I think that's the primary function it serves.

You can have intelligent debates in any forum. The flameboard just lets you do it with swear words, name calling, and personal attacks. But the minute people stop respecting their debate opponents is the minute those debates become less intelligent or useful. I'm sure there may be informative topics within the flameboard, but I don't read them because I'm not interested in filtering out all the crap.

Also, I'm the type that hates to pass judgement on somebody just because a total stranger has been spreading rumors. I'm willing to give anyone a shot, and if they prove themselves completely useless to me, I just /blacklist them and the problem's solved. Besides, FFXI is structured in a way that any player that can't make any friends will soon be left in the dust, so the problem often takes care of itself.

QCDN has great potential as a resource to meet new comrades, find an enjoyable linkshell, trade items, and schedule event runs. But this requires a community, and communities are built on respect. The flameboard tosses that respect right out the window, making this community a lot less effective than it should be.

 

[Alyada]

Nominations for Aly!

lol. /blush.

I've always thought as QCDN as a great place. I've learned new things, recieved some wonderful feedback, and participated in some great discussions. Everyone is so overwhelmingly positive on the Good Times, why not try to enforce the same behavoir on the flameboard?

 

[Marajade]

Even right there, in your last post to counter what I said, elitism ensues. Thus proving what I said right about why this site isn't looked at as more than and entertaining read.

Elitism is wanting my party members to play to thier best? News to me.

"little more than an entertaining read"
Apart from the Auction House, Quests/missions, and Crafters Corner, it IS suposed to entertain.

 

[Sculli]

Elitism is wanting my party members to play to thier best? News to me.

I think in this case the issue may be in difference of what's important and what's not. Party members playing to their best seems to mean "most xp per time unit" to you. In such a "production environment" there is no room for sub-par job combinations, or non-top-of-the-line gear, or whatever. When the goal moves from a tangible to an intangible (such as fun, exploring, or roleplaying, regardless or xp/hour or gil/hour), then odd jobs and gimp gear are a non-issue for the most part.

 

[Peregrine]

Do we have a list of groups who don't think highly of QCDN posters to get a feel for how large the sentiment is? I'm guessing 90% of people would be neutral, but unfortunately I have never heard of QCDN status being a positive.

I'll tell you straight-out that Invictus won't take chronic QCDN posters barring HUGE exceptions. Tried it, judged it, it just doesn't yield high-quality shellmembers that "get it." In fact, it's even bad to one degree of separation. Someone who comes from a shell full of chronic QCDN posters, even if they don't post here, causes us just as much headache because of the mentality they share. They have mouths for no reason. They end up being red mages who ask to lot all the giant heads, then leave in a frumpy mess saying we need to think about changing our rules for the exceptions. They come in biased and warped, if they don't outright have bombs strapped to their chests.

When it comes to the game, my 70, for one, wants nothing to do with QCDN affiliates or people who hang around them, with few exceptions.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I've made some of my best friends from QCDN and some new ones I look forward to being around more.. QCDN has made FFXI enjoyable for me. If it didn't exist.. I don't know that the game would have the same drawing force it does.

When I look forward to signing on, my FIRST thought is ALWAYS /flist. I met Firebrand and got ZM4 and some of 5 done via QCDN.
I met Kinkkerbelle by a rather *cough* interesting post XD
I met Crosis because people here suggested I sat in TBT waiting on a PT or BST duo to get a Humus they didnt need.
I met Ariadne from a friend but seeing her attitude on QCDN made me like her enough to pursue a real friendship.
I met Shuhya because of relationship similarities we shared and we learned of eachother via QCDN.
I met Vandoura 100% by QCDN, just reading her posts and seeing the night she wanted to quit I immediately /tell'd her to talk her out of it. (or at least try)
And one of the most important, though I rarely speak to her... Zerayla.. one of the biggest hearts in XI I met here due to statics.

QCDN makes the game more personal... So screw anyone who holds this site against the people using it.. this site is a hell of a meeting ground.

 

[Westyle]

I haven't made any friends dammit

[Edit: Wes, for a while the pics were funny, then they were amusing for a while longer, then it got old, and now it's just plain annoying. -Sculli]