Question to other Dynamis LS's

Uzor said:
I didn't say 3 of each job was the best way to go. I said it was it was possible to do it with just 3 of every job.

Certainly zerging everything with 20 WAR's, 30 BLMes, 5 BRD 5 RDM 5 WHM would lead to faster kills, but it'd also lead to people getting AF's very slow, thus being counter productive.

You can say you're extremely efficient, but getting AF's for the job they come as will be very slow unless you're extremely lucky, and I highly doubt anyone is that lucky. Thus, having 3 of every job would result in the most people getting the AF they want, while still being an efficient LS.
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Let's also be honest here, most hardcore end game shells stack blms, but most of them prefer their other jobs more.

When my shell merged, we had i think 8 BLM, only 2 people actually lotting BLM. When I first did dynamis, there was like 10 rngs in the LS, I was lotting DRK, because that is the job I like over all of my jobs. And when I get BLM leveled (no lolgalkablm comments) I'll still be lotting...err my main is NIN cause it is actually useful, but I'll probably be completing NIN or working on completing DRK af2.

Most zergers want the gear for the jobs they leveled first, even if it isn't the coolest job out there.
 
meeze said:
Let's also be honest here, most hardcore end game shells stack blms, but most of them prefer their other jobs more.

When my shell merged, we had i think 8 BLM, only 2 people actually lotting BLM. When I first did dynamis, there was like 10 rngs in the LS, I was lotting DRK, because that is the job I like over all of my jobs. And when I get BLM leveled (no lolgalkablm comments) I'll still be lotting...err my main is NIN cause it is actually useful, but I'll probably be completing NIN or working on completing DRK af2.

Most zergers want the gear for the jobs they leveled first, even if it isn't the coolest job out there.
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But then, the jobs they're coming as won't improve either.

Yes, all AF for WAR, BLM etc. might not be the best in the world, but atleast for WAR, some pieces are very good. So the job they're coming as won't improve much.

Yes, you can lot other jobs, but chances are that very many will be lotting on one and the same of the job they enjoy the most, and lotting will still be slow then.

Personally, we recruited some SAM's, and would have liked to recruit some RNG's due to those being free lotted. We had something like 6 free lotted in beaucedine and 4 free lotted on xarcabard before we recruited again. On the other jobs we don't have more then 3 people lotting most of the time. Don't remember exactly, might have been more free lotted. And we didn't recruit "the most effective" jobs. Because, believe it or not, all jobs are effective.
 
WAR and MNK are both after their hand pieces which drop in cities, as is SAM actually. RNG is after legs which drop in Sandy, and DRK just wants to look cool cause AF2 is a joke. Not sure on BLM yet, so I don't know, you have the mages, I'm sure you know what pieces for mage jobs are good.

Dynamis gear is really pretty bad, or is in a slot where there are better options, like WAR pants are easily surpassed by Haidate, NIN legs same thing. So most jobs dont get better in Dynamis, just cooler looking.
 
DRK AF2 isnt a joke . i use it when casting dark magic ;p
 
meeze said:
WAR and MNK are both after their hand pieces which drop in cities, as is SAM actually. RNG is after legs which drop in Sandy, and DRK just wants to look cool cause AF2 is a joke. Not sure on BLM yet, so I don't know, you have the mages, I'm sure you know what pieces for mage jobs are good.

Dynamis gear is really pretty bad, or is in a slot where there are better options, like WAR pants are easily surpassed by Haidate, NIN legs same thing. So most jobs dont get better in Dynamis, just cooler looking.
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Actually, a lot of the AF2 is good swap-in pieces.

Let me give you a few examples.

Cleric's Slops: excellent for bar-spells. However, Blessed slops and Mahatma Slops surpass it on cures and all other things.

Cleric's hands: Good only for Banish, but is good for that on undead.

Cleric's feet: Good for bar-spells.

Sorcerer's Tonban: Good for same-day casting. Sucks for everything else.

Sorcerer's hands: Good only for stun, drain, bio and aspir.

Warrior's Mask: Good swap-in for warcry since you only need to have it equipped when you use it, not after you used it.

Warrior's feet: Good swap-in for berserker, same reason as above.

Saotome legs: Good swap-in for third eye.

saotome hands: Good swap-in for meditate.

Abyss hands: Good swap-in for Absorb-TP, stun, drain and aspir.

Abyss feet: Good swap-in for Last Resort

Wyrm Brais: Good swap-in for High Jump

Duelist's Gloves: Good swap-in for Phalanx II, bar-spells etc.

Duelist's Tights: Extremely usefull in Ballista and soloing, and good for nuking statues etc.

Duelist's Boots: Usefull for nuking statues etc.

Assasin feet: Usefull for tripple attack, and the CHR for Dancing Edge and treasure hunter.

Valor feet: Even more usefull then before in Dynamis. 100-70% physical damage reduction for 30 sec with Sentinel on. Extremely usefull for MNK's

Valor Gauntlets: Usefull for Shield Bash. Especially with Aegis I assume.

Valor Coronet: Even more usefull then before due to the Rampart change. Helpfull from suicidal NIN's etc.

I could go on with northland pieces if you want, but I think I proved my point good enough.

Besides, people's main jobs are usually the ones they enjoy playing the most, and usually the job they're best at, and that is the most geared one. So why not let them go as their main jobs? They'll still be usefull, and they'll, god forbid, actually have more fun in Dynamis. Dynamis gear isn't the end-all in terms of overall use. Very few pieces are end-all and worn at all time. They are, however, the best available for what they do. Can you tell me another piece of leg equipment for WHM that gives +20 to bar spells? How about another head piece for WAR that gives increased warcry? They're not ment to be worn at all times. They're ment to be usefull swap-in pieces, just like a lot of other pieces in the game. And that is how they get better.
 
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I know I dont have a place in asking but I'm really curious how many bst are each run for dynamis or how bad the chances are for one if their only job is 65+ just a curious question
 
BST are usually few and far between in dynamis, just like drg; their relic is often free lotted.
 
Mostly when I'm picking out what gear to lot, I'm considering long term and assuming I want every piece of gear in the game that can benefit me eventually.

Such as...

I wanted BLM AF2 hat, and I wanted SMN AF2 hat.

BLM AF2 hat is harder to get, because BLM AF2 is more competitive, especially in Xarcabard.

Knowing this from the day I started Dynamis, I kept my participation perfect and started BLM main from day 1. I got my blm hat but never got my smn. Now if I want to do dynamis again, I've got the harder piece already.. I can probably wait to find an already established shell with nobody needing SMN AF2. There are no shells that will ever exist that don't need BLM af2.

In fact, there are JP shells out there that ONLY need BLM af2.
 
I'm always kind of astonished by the lack of any sort of mention, in any kind of thread about endgame, to a little aspect that one would expect to be a requirement in a game. Fun.

Granted, the vast majority of people don't do dyna for fun, but even for the "forced" aspects of the game, one would wish that people can have at least a certain degree of enjoyment. Sadly enough, SE designers usually come up with ways to make certain things wildy more efficient if they are done in the least possible "fun" way. Manaburning BCs. TP cannon merits. Basically, all stuff that would be pretty much bottable.

If we were to mention our "most fun" times in the game, would we mention that 15 second DM manaburn ? That 20k/hr merit session ? Even that 1 minute Kirin which gives many bragging rights, but very little other than that ?

No, we probably remember our first 3k/hr "godly" dunes party, or that NM we killed with half the people required, or any other number of things (like Uzor's thf stone soloer) that are *far* from being efficient (or even a good idea) but are just plain fun.

The point of this post ? Just a random reminder that not everything in this game is pure numbers and ratios, and that it's probably not the best idea to always live by those numbers. Efficiency is important, but so is fun. Dyna is a somewhat bad example (as it's mostly boring by design) but I think you guys know what I'm talking about.
 
Rommie said:
I'm always kind of astonished by the lack of any sort of mention, in any kind of thread about endgame, to a little aspect that one would expect to be a requirement in a game. Fun.

Granted, the vast majority of people don't do dyna for fun, but even for the "forced" aspects of the game, one would wish that people can have at least a certain degree of enjoyment. Sadly enough, SE designers usually come up with ways to make certain things wildy more efficient if they are done in the least possible "fun" way. Manaburning BCs. TP cannon merits. Basically, all stuff that would be pretty much bottable.

If we were to mention our "most fun" times in the game, would we mention that 15 second DM manaburn ? That 20k/hr merit session ? Even that 1 minute Kirin which gives many bragging rights, but very little other than that ?

No, we probably remember our first 3k/hr "godly" dunes party, or that NM we killed with half the people required, or any other number of things (like Uzor's thf stone soloer) that are *far* from being efficient (or even a good idea) but are just plain fun.

The point of this post ? Just a random reminder that not everything in this game is pure numbers and ratios, and that it's probably not the best idea to always live by those numbers. Efficiency is important, but so is fun. Dyna is a somewhat bad example (as it's mostly boring by design) but I think you guys know what I'm talking about.
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Well, I'd say Dynamis is very fun... just that all shells normally take the fun out of it, like telling everyone to be quiet and concentrate. Some friendly talking makes things a whole lot more fun. Just a simple thing like that makes Dynamis more fun.

Another example is letting people go as a job they enjoy playing (as long as they're not the only WHM or the only RDM or w/e). If you put in fun things in to Dynamis, it becomes more fun. Remove the fun, and what do you get?

I love doing Dynamis. I look forward to it every week because I enjoy doing it. I think Dynamis is extremely fun.

Firestreak said:
Mostly when I'm picking out what gear to lot, I'm considering long term and assuming I want every piece of gear in the game that can benefit me eventually.

Such as...

I wanted BLM AF2 hat, and I wanted SMN AF2 hat.

BLM AF2 hat is harder to get, because BLM AF2 is more competitive, especially in Xarcabard.

Knowing this from the day I started Dynamis, I kept my participation perfect and started BLM main from day 1. I got my blm hat but never got my smn. Now if I want to do dynamis again, I've got the harder piece already.. I can probably wait to find an already established shell with nobody needing SMN AF2. There are no shells that will ever exist that don't need BLM af2.

In fact, there are JP shells out there that ONLY need BLM af2.
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I won all of my BLM AF2's (3) free lotted because no one else needed them <.<; We've got more BLM AF then anything to drop... We've got a grand total of 34 BLM drops xD
 
Rommie said:
I'm always kind of astonished by the lack of any sort of mention, in any kind of thread about endgame, to a little aspect that one would expect to be a requirement in a game. Fun.

Granted, the vast majority of people don't do dyna for fun, but even for the "forced" aspects of the game, one would wish that people can have at least a certain degree of enjoyment. Sadly enough, SE designers usually come up with ways to make certain things wildy more efficient if they are done in the least possible "fun" way. Manaburning BCs. TP cannon merits. Basically, all stuff that would be pretty much bottable.

If we were to mention our "most fun" times in the game, would we mention that 15 second DM manaburn ? That 20k/hr merit session ? Even that 1 minute Kirin which gives many bragging rights, but very little other than that ?

No, we probably remember our first 3k/hr "godly" dunes party, or that NM we killed with half the people required, or any other number of things (like Uzor's thf stone soloer) that are *far* from being efficient (or even a good idea) but are just plain fun.

The point of this post ? Just a random reminder that not everything in this game is pure numbers and ratios, and that it's probably not the best idea to always live by those numbers. Efficiency is important, but so is fun. Dyna is a somewhat bad example (as it's mostly boring by design) but I think you guys know what I'm talking about.
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They shouldn't have to put how much fun everything is into every post they make about the game; the fun is obviously implied and there. If you didn't enjoy the game(no fun), you wouldn't play it; if you don't find something fun, you likely wouldn't do that for very long, regardless of the gear you might get. I don't mean to belittle you or anything, but if someone's not having fun in endgame, they're not doing it right. Most people have fun, so no one sees the need to mention it all the time; it's already understood that the fun is there.
 
Bajaratt said:
They shouldn't have to put how much fun everything is into every post they make about the game; the fun is obviously implied and there. If you didn't enjoy the game(no fun), you wouldn't play it; if you don't find something fun, you likely wouldn't do that for very long, regardless of the gear you might get. I don't mean to belittle you or anything, but if someone's not having fun in endgame, they're not doing it right. Most people have fun, so no one sees the need to mention it all the time; it's already understood that the fun is there.
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I have to disagree. There are some people that lose sight of the fun this game offers and that is evident in their posts.
 
Kerowynn said:
I have to disagree. There are some people that lose sight of the fun this game offers and that is evident in their posts.
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Obviously there are some exceptions, but the vast majority of people stop doing things that aren't in some way fun for them.
 
Uzor said:
I won all of my BLM AF2's (3) free lotted because no one else needed them <.<; We've got more BLM AF then anything to drop... We've got a grand total of 34 BLM drops xD
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34 isn't particulary much considering most linkshells may have like 15+ BLM come and go through their shell in less than a year. The only explanations I can make is that...

1) All of your BLM don't give a shit about BLM and are lotting other jobs.
2) You're getting pieces that don't matter, like AF2 feet
3) You just happened to have 3 BLM come on that day and those particular 3 had those items.

Either way, in general the BLM lines are always long, In fact there are shells out there where if you're a BLM who doesn't want BLM AF2, you can go to Xarc as a pickup member and lot anything else you want.

As for the whole "fun" argument. Well, I think fun is a very relative term for FFXI. Most of us get enjoyment out of getting our goals realized, which is fun to us. Those who are more interested in instant gratification shouldn't be playing FFXI and definetly not FFXI endgame. The joy is in getting the gear, to some extent, not in the path we take to get it always.
 
Bajaratt said:
They shouldn't have to put how much fun everything is into every post they make about the game; the fun is obviously implied and there. If you didn't enjoy the game(no fun), you wouldn't play it; if you don't find something fun, you likely wouldn't do that for very long, regardless of the gear you might get. I don't mean to belittle you or anything, but if someone's not having fun in endgame, they're not doing it right. Most people have fun, so no one sees the need to mention it all the time; it's already understood that the fun is there.
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I'm not so sure. When you look at many endgame LSs, you don't regularly see merry bands of friends happily helping each other, and their fellow players. You see a lot of bickering, a lot of rules, a lot of people pointing fingers and an extreme degree of (arguably unhealthy) competition. This is more consistent with a work environment, than with a "playground" really.

If people were *actually* having so much fun, I would expect to see a significantly lower level of bitching. After all, is it really that important if somebody supposedly jacked your (random_endgame_item) if you will happily be doing (random_event_that_drops_it) over and over again ?

The fact of the matter is that a lot of endgame is repetitive (so it loses the original appeal eventually), highly competitive (HNMs, etc.), requires significant manpower to participate (forcing people to join LSs with people they don't necessarily like all that much) and is pretty low on the "instant gratification" factor (drops tend to be far and wide). You see evidence of people burning out every day, the quit threads, the flaming, the community divides, etc. etc.

The whole point of my post was exactly that we need to find the fun in everything we do in the game, or the "work" aspects of it become readily apparent. And I was just mentioning that a pure devotion to efficiency is something we should expect to see in an office, not in a game.

We want efficiency *precisely* to quickly deal with the repetitive aspects of the game, so I can fully understand people advocating efficiency for stuff like dyna. It's just that, regardless of how awesome some LS is, stuff like dyna *will* take a lot of time, so it needs to be balanced with entertainment.

At the end of the day, the people in your shell, the variety of the jobs you have, the chit chat during the runs, the bad pulls and even the occasional wipes are more important, imho, than sheer efficiency. That is the stuff that will keep you going back to dyna, and that will keep you entertained until you fulfill whatever goals you have in it.
 
Firestreak said:
34 isn't particulary much considering most linkshells may have like 15+ BLM come and go through their shell in less than a year. The only explanations I can make is that...

1) All of your BLM don't give a shit about BLM and are lotting other jobs.
2) You're getting pieces that don't matter, like AF2 feet
3) You just happened to have 3 BLM come on that day and those particular 3 had those items.

Either way, in general the BLM lines are always long, In fact there are shells out there where if you're a BLM who doesn't want BLM AF2, you can go to Xarc as a pickup member and lot anything else you want.

As for the whole "fun" argument. Well, I think fun is a very relative term for FFXI. Most of us get enjoyment out of getting our goals realized, which is fun to us. Those who are more interested in instant gratification shouldn't be playing FFXI and definetly not FFXI endgame. The joy is in getting the gear, to some extent, not in the path we take to get it always.
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No, because we had a grand total of 2 BLMes most of the time throughout last year. Then we got 2 more BLMes, 1 DRG (who was still main lotting DRG), and a BRD (who main lotted BRD). That gave us 4 BLMes towards the end of the year, and since the 2 other BLMes already had their AF, I won the free lots.

And that's the reason you don't want 15+ BLMes, which is what my argument was about. Now we have a few more BLMes since we recruited after new year, so now we have some more people lotting BLM. But considering the original BLMes all already have their AF's, there's not many people lotting it.

Hell, I also won free lotted Cleric's Briault due to all WHMes having it. Believe me or not, but BLM was free lotted for a rather long time, untill some members lvled BLM and we recruited some more BLMes after new year.
 
Rommie said:
I'm not so sure. When you look at many endgame LSs, you don't regularly see merry bands of friends happily helping each other, and their fellow players. You see a lot of bickering, a lot of rules, a lot of people pointing fingers and an extreme degree of (arguably unhealthy) competition. This is more consistent with a work environment, than with a "playground" really.

If people were *actually* having so much fun, I would expect to see a significantly lower level of bitching. After all, is it really that important if somebody supposedly jacked your (random_endgame_item) if you will happily be doing (random_event_that_drops_it) over and over again ?

The fact of the matter is that a lot of endgame is repetitive (so it loses the original appeal eventually), highly competitive (HNMs, etc.), requires significant manpower to participate (forcing people to join LSs with people they don't necessarily like all that much) and is pretty low on the "instant gratification" factor (drops tend to be far and wide). You see evidence of people burning out every day, the quit threads, the flaming, the community divides, etc. etc.

The whole point of my post was exactly that we need to find the fun in everything we do in the game, or the "work" aspects of it become readily apparent. And I was just mentioning that a pure devotion to efficiency is something we should expect to see in an office, not in a game.

We want efficiency *precisely* to quickly deal with the repetitive aspects of the game, so I can fully understand people advocating efficiency for stuff like dyna. It's just that, regardless of how awesome some LS is, stuff like dyna *will* take a lot of time, so it needs to be balanced with entertainment.

At the end of the day, the people in your shell, the variety of the jobs you have, the chit chat during the runs, the bad pulls and even the occasional wipes are more important, imho, than sheer efficiency. That is the stuff that will keep you going back to dyna, and that will keep you entertained until you fulfill whatever goals you have in it.
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I have to dissagree. You can still have fun even though there's rules. The rules are there, atleast in our case, to try and make things fair as possible, and to make it as easy and painless as possible during the runs. FFXI, too, have rules. But you still play it to have fun, don't you? Real-life is rather fun too, and that have rules, or rather laws. Rules doesn't take the fun out unless one of the rules is that it's forbidden to have fun.

Personally, I think doing something that's not challanging is boring. That's why I hate meriting, due to ther being close to no danger level in it. It's so easy, that it's just not fun. That's why I liked going to Dynamis with few people, due to it being more challanging, and thus more fun.

People need to find what they think is fun about it. Why they do something and wheither or not their time is worth it. Leaders can't tell their members why they do it, and why they should think it's fun. That's up to them, themselves to find. Personally, if they only do it for the items they get in it, they do it for the wrong reason. They won't have fun by being outlotted on the only thing that brings them to dynamis. The only thing we as leaders can do, is bring them to the run, and try to let them have fun. Show them the fun, but they themselves have to find it.

An example is, you can't bring a person to something and tell them "This is fun, and that's fun in that" sicne everyone have different likes and dislikes. All you can do is bring them with you, and show them what it is. They themselves have to find the fun factor in it.

If you found the fun in Dynamis yourself, you'll do Dynamis because it's fun, and you'll keep doing it because it's fun. The AF will be a bonus, a reward for the time you spent having fun, and suddenly you'll have twice the fun. If you only do Dynamis because you want AF, you don't only work in RL, you work in the game too. Dynamis won't be fun then, and it won't be fun untill you get your salary. And I highly doubt you'll keep going to work without a salary. Thus, the reason is wrong. The reason have to be the fun, not the salary.
 
there are tons of ways to make dynamis fun, most of which i get yelled at for doing, but still fun anyway

Things i have done recently.....

Ventrilo, We play 80's soundtrack music like "you're the best" and "danger zone" for some comical adrenaline

After clearing the stones as BLM i preceded to melee mobs and got the killshot on a quadav with a 22 point staff swing

I tomahawked Wagnus.... so much fun.....

2 weeks ago we sang dynamis carols.... /sh while fighting, we actually didnt get yelled at for this, the leaders joined in..... "Marajade the AFK ranger... had a very lovely bow... and since he never shoots it, his DPS remains zero"
All in good fun, mara is actually a pretty good ranger.

fought as war in full I.M. armor and sang the power rangers theme song

As war, fully buffing, everything i got and SATAing a slept mob (i have a rdm resleep it so it doesnt kill me... or anyone else) its fun to see what % you can knock it down too.

Getting mijin gakured.... was... well... i was pissed at the time, but it was pretty damn funny, i didnt get killed but rambaldi was more than happy to chi blast away my last 32 HP


Some of these were at the cost of efficiency, most were not... but even so, keeping it interesting keeps me going, and its cool to see the leaders let us fool around sometimes, they recognize the grind it can be
 
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