Question to other Dynamis LS's

[Rommie]

Yep, we have the best LS evar =P

Yes, we certainly have a reasonably fun dyna LS, otherwise I think I would have given up a while ago

 

[Courtney]

Now, the argument is that Uzor thinks 3 of every job would be great. I say no, it isn't as efficient as stacking jobs that kill faster. Along the line, someone said you cant wipe a zone at all, Courtney said you can.

Now, here is the tricky part, when she tells us the job balance (or imbalance) my point will be proven because in fact, stacking jobs will allow you to clear a zone with plenty of time to spare.

Efficiency comes from fast kills, fast kills come from jobs that can...wait for it...kill FAST. If you want to clear zones (or do anything else in this game faster than the next guy) stack the right jobs.
.

The Shell consists of Endgame players. Most endgame players have a job that's useful in killing mobs quickly, and, in general, they come as those jobs. Mellees are mostly NIN, MNK, WAR and mages are mostly BLM, WHM, RDM, BRD. 3-4 THFs for TH.

It isn't a conspiracy to keep other jobs out though, it's just logic. You come as your most useful job. We have a sprinkling of players new to endgame coming through, and not all of them are one of those seven jobs. We've had BSTs, DRGs, SAMs, with no other jobs in Shell, we've had members not level 75 in Shell. It does not affect killing efficiency, and it does not affect lotting priority. A BST may not be able to do the same damage as a WAR, but non-optimal DDs don't much of an impact on efficiency. In a situation where you are restricted to an alliance (ie normal HNMs) you only have a few DD spots open, and you may need your DDs to be near the top of the tree. Dynamis isn't like that.

Gear helps, although there's really nothing in Shell, that's really that hard to get. No relics, 1xAdaberk, but really nothing else that's out of the reach of the average player. Good solid gear though, and lots of AF2, nearly all obtained within the shell. Merits help (a lot), but merits are available equally to everyone, if they're willing to put in the time.

The reason this Shell is efficient is because it keeps the same core of players. There is no revolving door of members, and there are still good incentives to stick around when you have 5/5 AF. The base core of players work well together, are experienced, and pretty much know what to do in any situation without needing to be told everytime. You're in basically the same party each week, and you know your role, and what to expect.

Someone metioned having fun. For me, it's fun killing stuff efficiently, and seeing my Shellmates happy when they get gear. We kill fast, efficiently, and get lots of drops (5-6 times in the past year we've had 8+ drops in Xarca, and that is FUN). Different people find fun in different ways, I guess, but being part of a team that's working well together and achieving good results is fun for me, in game and in life.

If that's taken as me boasting, then so be it. The aim was to provide information. In all honesty, I (as a RDM) add less to our success than any other job in the shell.

Oh, and for those who brought it up, I am a proud member of Kaizen, but this isn't a Kaizen shell and I'm the only Kaizen member in it...

 

[Dayner]

my fun is counting how many time i pull hate and die h34r: h34r:

oh also getting clink clink

even so if iam have fun in dyna i know when i need to stop

 

[metachronism]

The Shell consists of Endgame players. Most endgame players have a job that's useful in killing mobs quickly, and, in general, they come as those jobs. Mellees are mostly NIN, MNK, WAR and mages are mostly BLM, WHM, RDM, BRD. 3-4 THFs for TH.

And she said, "let them eat cake." *rolls eyes*

It isn't a conspiracy to keep other jobs out though, it's just logic. You come as your most useful job. We have a sprinkling of players new to endgame coming through, and not all of them are one of those seven jobs. We've had BSTs, DRGs, SAMs, with no other jobs in Shell, we've had members not level 75 in Shell. It does not affect killing efficiency, and it does not affect lotting priority. A BST may not be able to do the same damage as a WAR, but non-optimal DDs don't much of an impact on efficiency. In a situation where you are restricted to an alliance (ie normal HNMs) you only have a few DD spots open, and you may need your DDs to be near the top of the tree. Dynamis isn't like that.

I'm sure a "lesser" job or two in the mix won't "impact efficiency" when the all of the other dd (read: nin, war, mnk) in the group already deliver 30% and upward more DPS each than what they can do, on top of maybe another 30% that the bards add to the base.

The reason this Shell is efficient is because it keeps the same core of players. There is no revolving door of members, and there are still good incentives to stick around when you have 5/5 AF. The base core of players work well together, are experienced, and pretty much know what to do in any situation without needing to be told everytime. You're in basically the same party each week, and you know your role, and what to expect.

So are you insinuating that if you take the same players and you redistribute their jobs such that you have 3 of each job, you can still clear the zone? If that's the case, let me retract everything that I've said so far. That's some good player pool you have there. You have every right to say "dynamis city zones were designed to be cleared in 2.5 hours with 35 people" if that's the case.

If that's taken as me boasting, then so be it.

I guess Marie Antoinette didn't realize what the hell she said that pissed people off up till the moment the guillotine chopped her head off. Really, that's about as frivolous as saying Kirin was designed to be killed in 5 minutes just because there are some groups with unrealistic configurations that can do it in less time.

 

[motley]

Meta, im going to make some nice relaxing dynamis carols just for you, this thread has the vien over your eye going all anime on you

 

[Courtney]

Metachronism:

I never made (or insinuated) any of the statements you've credited me with in your "analysis". I think I've stated everything pretty clearly, and you're just inventing things looking for a fight.

You shown that you don't have any idea about Dynamis, or anything else to add to the discussion, and you don't get any further responses from me...

 

[metachronism]

Metachronism:

I never made (or insinuated) any of the statements you've credited me with in your "analysis". I think I've stated everything pretty clearly, and you're just inventing things looking for a fight.

You shown that you don't have any idea about Dynamis, or anything else to add to the discussion, and you don't get any further responses from me...

You'd look more like the nonchalante cool-guy in the room that you're trying to be if you walked away *after* clearly attributing the said "efficiency" to the skewed job distribution, or the "player experience" first, like I asked of you, which you summarily ignored, or failed to parse like the other posts.

Off with your bourgeoisie head, I say.

 

[Rappa]

Meta bought a new thesaurus and he'll be DAMNED if he doesn't put it to good use.

 

[Skaw]

Zilart Dynamis is Serious Business

edit: added a key, italicized word.

 

[Uzor]

You'd look more like the nonchalante cool-guy in the room that you're trying to be if you walked away *after* clearly attributing the said "efficiency" to the skewed job distribution, or the "player experience" first, like I asked of you, which you summarily ignored, or failed to parse like the other posts.

Off with your bourgeoisie head, I say.

Courtney didn't once say their efficiency was every melee as WAR and NIN, and 15 BLMes out of their 35 members. That was all you Meta.

 

[Artem]

Meta, stop flamebaiting, noone agrees with you in this thread. Courtney's point was that after 4 years of endgame most people have 2-3 upwards of 9-16 jobs to choose from to go to dynamis. Yes, there are some new comers, but noone discriminates against them. They are accepted into linkshells too. The point is that most people have one of the "fast killing" jobs at this point (ie war, nin, mnk, blm) or have a mage type. They usually come as those jobs instead of the DRG they leveled for fun at one point or another, as to finish dynamis faster.

While yes it's possible to get the minimal of every job to do dynamis, it is usually more efficient in speed to do with a larger base of "fast killing" jobs. The point isn't how many jobs of each thing you have, it's if you have a rewarding system to distribute the items. If they are all just purely luck lotting than people will leave. If it's purely attendance points (so new people will never catch up to the core players), people will leave. Also it takes a little respect from people, one shouldn't lot a xarc piece for a job they finished leveling 3 days ago over someone who had it for a long time and attends the runs often, but did not start at the same time. Be considerate, and act like an LS, not like a bunch of greedy people that want to go around saying they have 5/5 AF2.

Newsflash, 5/5 AF2 is not a big deal anymore. Now when you have 5/5 +1 AF2 that's another story

 

[Phraust]

Actually, a lot of the AF2 is good swap-in pieces.

Let me give you a few examples.

Cleric's Slops: excellent for bar-spells. However, Blessed slops and Mahatma Slops surpass it on cures and all other things.

Cleric's hands: Good only for Banish, but is good for that on undead.

Cleric's feet: Good for bar-spells.

Sorcerer's Tonban: Good for same-day casting. Sucks for everything else.

Sorcerer's hands: Good only for stun, drain, bio and aspir. & Magic Burst

Warrior's Mask: Good swap-in for warcry since you only need to have it equipped when you use it, not after you used it. But a waste of space mostly due to the limited or negligible merit to the piece

Warrior's feet: Good swap-in for berserker, same reason as above.(lol) again a waste of an inventory piece

Saotome legs: Good swap-in for third eye. Good to leave on for a defensive settup/Saigen (Helps with the counter attack proc rate on third eye)

saotome hands: Good swap-in for meditate. Free +10 Attack too

Abyss hands: Good swap-in for Absorb-TP, stun, drain and aspir. The only really good thing abbout these is the +8 int, otherwise W.Hands beats these out and are easier and aguably cheaper to get.

Abyss feet: Good swap-in for Last Resort not really...

Wyrm Brais: Good swap-in for High Jump

Duelist's Gloves: Good swap-in for Phalanx II, bar-spells etc.

Duelist's Tights: Extremely usefull in Ballista and soloing, and good for nuking statues etc. Rdm "Helping Out With Stones" 9/10 ends up in a waste of time, thier skills should be better spent elsewhere.

Duelist's Boots: Usefull for nuking statues etc.See above

Assasin feet: Usefull for tripple attack, and the CHR for Dancing Edge and treasure hunter. LOL! Jesus Christ, go back to Alla with that shit. If you are so frigging stupid to believe somethign like that, why is it so hard to believe so much of the other shit you argue against when there's facts backing it up???

Valor feet: Even more usefull then before in Dynamis. 100-70% physical damage reduction for 30 sec with Sentinel on. Extremely usefull for MNK's

Valor Gauntlets: Usefull for Shield Bash. Especially with Aegis I assume.

Valor Coronet: Even more usefull then before due to the Rampart change. Helpfull from suicidal NIN's etc.

I could go on with northland pieces if you want, but I think I proved my point good enough.

Besides, people's main jobs are usually the ones they enjoy playing the most, and usually the job they're best at, and that is the most geared one. So why not let them go as their main jobs? They'll still be usefull, and they'll, god forbid, actually have more fun in Dynamis. Dynamis gear isn't the end-all in terms of overall use. Very few pieces are end-all and worn at all time. They are, however, the best available for what they do. Can you tell me another piece of leg equipment for WHM that gives +20 to bar spells? How about another head piece for WAR that gives increased warcry? They're not ment to be worn at all times. They're ment to be usefull swap-in pieces, just like a lot of other pieces in the game. And that is how they get better.

Back to the main topic, beatign the perverbial dead horse here...

You speak like you pull one stone at a time, and each stone only pops one mob at a time....

Failed sleepga form a RDM means -1 RDM,
Resisted Nuke on a Stone = rogue stone running amuck too long,
3 Blm = 1 stone at a time,
3 Blm = no backup Sleepga II,
3 Rdm = No refresh for mages, OR no silence on Slimes, Blms, Crows, etc...

It's nothing more than an aguement for safe strategies. When you need to tactically nuke stones to avoid a train, you going to risk a resist? or throw 6 Blms at it and overkill?

I don't even know why I am posting honestly this is the stupidest most Alla laden post I seen in a while. It was the CHR = TH thing that really got to me. Why would you use more than 3 BLMs? because they have fucking spells that can do things that benefit the group asd a whole you doofus, use your fucking head. By your logic, you only need 1 tank for dynamis...

 

[Uzor]

Back to the main topic, beatign the perverbial dead horse here...

You speak like you pull one stone at a time, and each stone only pops one mob at a time....

No, we pull several at a time. And yes, I'm well aware of how pops work. When exactly did I "speak like you only pull one at a time".

Failed sleepga form a RDM means -1 RDM,
Resisted Nuke on a Stone = rogue stone running amuck too long,
3 Blm = 1 stone at a time,
3 Blm = no backup Sleepga II,
3 Rdm = No refresh for mages, OR no silence on Slimes, Blms, Crows, etc...

1) Your RDMes suck if they get resisted on Sleepga. Hell, even our BLMes rarely get resisted on Sleepga.

2) Yes, which is why you don't need more then 3.

3) They can still backup Sleepga II. However, Sleepga II rather sucks since it means all mobs wakes up at once. I much rather prefer them Sleep II'ing manually after a simple Sleepga.

4) 3 RDMes can still refresh 3 parties,or are you stupid enough to put them all in the same party? And last I checked, I could silense all crows, slimes, BLMes, scorpions, RDM, WHM, NIN, DRK and BRD mobs as the only RDM there. If 3 RDMes can't do that, then they suck. Hell, I did all that while in the tank party refreshing 2 WHMes, 2 PLD, myself, and the BRD occasionally. While casting Phalanx II.

It's nothing more than an aguement for safe strategies. When you need to tactically nuke stones to avoid a train, you going to risk a resist? or throw 6 Blms at it and overkill?

Yes, because 3 BLMes can handle the stones. If there's many stones, the NIN's and the extra PLD's can provoke, flash, blind, paralyze and slow the stones and kite them, thus allowing your BLMes to safely handle 1 stone at a time.

I don't even know why I am posting honestly this is the stupidest most Alla laden post I seen in a while. It was the CHR = TH thing that really got to me. Why would you use more than 3 BLMs? because they have fucking spells that can do things that benefit the group asd a whole you doofus, use your fucking head. By your logic, you only need 1 tank for dynamis...

No, I reccomended 3 PLD's. My question was why you chose to recruit so many BLMes when it's the melees that do most of the job.

And btw, BLM AF2 hands suck for MB'ing. Zenith Mitts ftw. And we tried stacking CHR for TH ourselves. Worked quite well. Granted the times we did we might just have been very lucky, I dunno. Works well for us, so we'll stick by that.

As for the other things, let me quote them.

Warrior's Mask: Good swap-in for warcry since you only need to have it equipped when you use it, not after you used it. But a waste of space mostly due to the limited or negligible merit to the piece

Every little bit helps. That's why you chose to spend 700k on a piece of equipment to get 1 more STR, is it not?

Warrior's feet: Good swap-in for berserker, same reason as above.(lol) again a waste of an inventory piece

Once again, every little bit helps.

Saotome legs: Good swap-in for third eye. Good to leave on for a defensive settup/Saigen (Helps with the counter attack proc rate on third eye)

Which is exactly what I said. Don't try to act smart, 'cause you're not.

Abyss hands: Good swap-in for Absorb-TP, stun, drain and aspir. The only really good thing abbout these is the +8 int, otherwise W.Hands beats these out and are easier and aguably cheaper to get.

Yes, W.hands beat them. So you can use them if you don't have crimson hands. Similar to how Zenith Mitts > BLM AF2 hands for MB'ing.

Abyss feet: Good swap-in for Last Resort not really...

What's better?

Duelist's Tights: Extremely usefull in Ballista and soloing, and good for nuking statues etc. Rdm "Helping Out With Stones" 9/10 ends up in a waste of time, thier skills should be better spent elsewhere.

I dunno about you, but I think soloing the first and second extention in Xarcabard puts that 1/10th to rather good use. I also think helping to kill the boss at the end, and nuking stones if there's many at camp also puts that 1/10 to rather good use.

I dunno though, your RDMes might just suck.

Duelist's Boots: Usefull for nuking statues etc.See above

See above.

 

[Blabj]

Jet Seraweels/Mahatma Slops for RDM nuking ftw.

Who cares about the loss of Elemental magic, you'll do more damage! (Maybe thats the BLM in me speaking...)

 

[Firestreak]

Elemental or INT depends on what you're nuking. Honestly I rarely use my elemental gears but RDM caps much lower and probably won't be 8/8 ele merits.

 

[metachronism]

Courtney didn't once say their efficiency was every melee as WAR and NIN, and 15 BLMes out of their 35 members. That was all you Meta.

Oh really? Then why don't you ask courtney the actual breakdown then? If it wasn't obvious (which, I wouldn't find it surprising from you), you can tell courtney was intentionally not disclosing the numbers because he knew how skewed they were.

Unless you have problems with figuring out logistics, it's not that hard to deduce that the numbers cited by courtney can only be cranked out when you have disproportionate amounts of certain jobs (read: merit jobs).

15 blms? That's counterproductive.

 

[Firestreak]

No amount of BLMs is counterproductive in dynamis.

 

[Uzor]

Oh really? Then why don't you ask courtney the actual breakdown then? If it wasn't obvious (which, I wouldn't find it surprising from you), you can tell courtney was intentionally not disclosing the numbers because he knew how skewed they were.

Unless you have problems with figuring out logistics, it's not that hard to deduce that the numbers cited by courtney can only be cranked out when you have disproportionate amounts of certain jobs (read: merit jobs).

15 blms? That's counterproductive.

So to sum it up, you attack courtney without a reason saying his LS's success doesn't mean a squat because you think they play all WAR etc.?

k.

 

[Phraust]

All that "your RDMs/BLMs must suck then" and your other stabs fall shallow on my skin.

I will let my Linkshell's record speak for itself, as well as my own. This is my final comment on your self-masterbatory thread where you pour assumptions out when you should be asking questions. Very few linkshells have Dynamis Lord on Farming status, and you are refuting thier input?

You're the same kind of douche that says stupid shit like "I paint flames on my car 'cause it make my car go faster!"

Again, use your head. Why woud we use more RDMs & BLMs? Cause it works, it checks itself, and on any layer of failure it fixes itself, easily and efficently.

 

[Uzor]

All that "your RDMs/BLMs must suck then" and your other stabs fall shallow on my skin.

I will let my Linkshell's record speak for itself, as well as my own. This is my final comment on your self-masterbatory thread where you pour assumptions out when you should be asking questions. Very few linkshells have Dynamis Lord on Farming status, and you are refuting thier input?

You're the same kind of douche that says stupid shit like "I paint flames on my car 'cause it make my car go faster!"

Again, use your head. Why woud we use more RDMs & BLMs? Cause it works, it checks itself, and on any layer of failure it fixes itself, easily and efficently.

I didn't make assumptions. I jsut said your RDMes suck if they can't nuke statues, or die if they get resisted or sleepga. You made useless jabs against me, I refuted. Don't try to blame that on me.

And you saying this is my "self-masterbatory thread"... the moment you brought up "My linkshell's sucess speaks for itself. Not many shells have Dynamis Lord on farm-status" is the moment I started laughing. Thanks for the laugh.

You seem to be used to high numbers saying that it's impossible for less then 3 RDMes to sleep and silence stuff, and that it's impossible for BLMes to Sleepga II things with less then 3 BLMes. Thus, they suck. You do things by high numbers apparently, I wonder how you'd do with 25 people. Any linkshell with 64 people could kill Nidhogg. But that doesn't mean they could do it with 18.