Question to other Dynamis LS's

[Firestreak]

Not everyone can sit at qcdn or play FF all day, unlike some. It does take a while to get to 75, you know.

If it's so trivial, why is there even a thread here about the job distribution? You even claimed the more blm, the better, so did you do dynamis with an all-blm LS?

First off, I've actually lvled 2 jobs to 75 when it wasn't so chicken shit easy as it is now. Back when 3k/hour was considered awesome and they didn't lower the exp requirements from 50-75.

There's no reason someone in their spare time shouldn't be able to level 2 jobs to 75, in a year to 18 months. I know plenty of people who play 5 hours a week with 75s. If you're so casual you can't play 6 hours a week, you're too casual to do dynamis which is 6 hours a week + time waiting for enter. Furthermore, those people still do get into dynamis, because those low demand jobs still take as much AF2 proportionally as the others.

But if you wanna call someone an elitist, call me one. I'm the kind of guy who'll see a Dragoon seeking party, be 5/6 party members and wait for a WAR to seek. I don't apologize for it, if a low demand job wants my invite I'll have to know them or be really desperate. I don't consider myself as a NIN, WHM, BRD, whatever better than a DRG in any way, I just want to get the best exp possible and they aren't the job that can give me that.

I've leveled PLD for example, and gotten a lot of great gears for it most PLD will never see off of playing my BLM endgame and gearing up my PLD in the shells.. but I don't expect people to invite my PLD to a merit party if they're about getting serious exp unless we're friends goofing off. I don't consider my PLD worse than my NIN, I consider my NIN better at chaining V and VTs for fast exp

As far as your question is concerned, if I was to join a dynamis shell, I'd join the shell that while fitting my real life schedule gave me the very very best AF2 ratio/effort possible. With my BLM AF2 already attained, I'd love a BLM dynamis shell. In regular shells I wouldn't be able to get PLD gear because they'll always favor the person WITHOUT alternative jobs leveled, ironically.

 

[Uzor]

You're been sure of many other things, and proceeded to embarrass yourself numerous times here. I'm sorry but it's my sincere hope that it takes neither an elite erudite nor a moviegoer to know who the hell Marie Antoinette is. God knows what movie you'll bring up if I mention Robespierre. Oh wait, did he show up in whatever movie you're talking about?

Do tell me what I've embarrased myself over in this thread. The only person I see constantly embarrasing oneself is you.

 

[Courtney]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (ĭ-lē'tĭz'əm, ā-lē'-)
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority.

Dynamis Hypothetical.

If a 30 member group can easily clear a zone in under 2 hours, how many people will be required if "non-optimal" mellees are required?

Someone in this thread stated that "otipmal" mellees deal 30% more DPS than "non-optimal" mellees. If this is the case (and they aren't my figures) then, assuming your 30 member group had no more than 20 mellees, your new group would only need 26 mellees (13/10*20). So a group of 36 people with 26DRGs (apoloigies to the DRGs for using them as an example) will clear a zone just as quickly as a group of 30 with 20 WAR/NINs. Using the same basis, a 30 person group with 20 "non-optimal" mellees will do 10/13 of the damage on the optimal group, in the same amount of time, and will clear the same zone in about 2hr 20 (10/13*120min). Slightly slower, but still pretty damn good.

To suggest that the only way to clear a zone quickly is to stack that group with certain mellees is pretty elitist. Fortunately, just about everyone in this thread realises this isn't the case, but I quess there are a few idiots out there who are blinded by their own stupidity...

 

[Firestreak]

But anyway, I think you're way off as far as the whole Courtney being elitist about dynamis clearing success. I'm sure it's probably due to an abundance of her members being decked with gear that's far better than AF2 and being fully merited rather than cherry picking only the right jobs. Not fair to call that elitist, but it makes her crew not really comparable to your crew as they see Dynamis as just tiny aspect of endgame, allowing them to be better prepared to move to the point where the mobs are inconsequential.

Of course at this point in FF you can't just make a shell like that anymore, these shells are dynasties that drains the top talent of the server making it harder for other shells to move up to that same level.

So in that way, you're right as well, as no matter how hard you try, you won't be able to top their shell at this point because the very best people would go there not with you no matter what as they're already established.

 

[Artem]

http://www.amazon.com/Marie-Antoinette-Journey-Antonia-Fraser/dp/0385489498

It's a popular book to read in English class. Where you learn about how you know... literature changed. Well her time was important. I didn't say you learned it in history, you just assumed that. That book is actually quite good for it's literary value, not just that it was French history. You really don't read everything people say, do you?

Can a mod ban this guy for calling everyone illiterate and trying to flamebait pretty much everyone on this board?

 

[Uzor]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (ĭ-lē'tĭz'əm, ā-lē'-)
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority.

Dynamis Hypothetical.

If a 30 member group can easily clear a zone in under 2 hours, how many people will be required if "non-optimal" mellees are required?

Someone in this thread stated that "otipmal" mellees deal 30% more DPS than "non-optimal" mellees. If this is the case (and they aren't my figures) then, assuming your 30 member group had no more than 20 mellees, your new group would only need 26 mellees (13/10*20). So a group of 36 people with 26DRGs (apoloigies to the DRGs for using them as an example) will clear a zone just as quickly as a group of 30 with 20 WAR/NINs. Using the same basis, a 30 person group with 20 "non-optimal" mellees will do 10/13 of the damage on the optimal group, in the same amount of time, and will clear the same zone in about 2hr 20 (10/13*120min). Slightly slower, but still pretty damn good.

To suggest that the only way to clear a zone quickly is to stack that group with certain mellees is pretty elitist. Fortunately, just about everyone in this thread realises this isn't the case, but I quess there are a few idiots out there who are blinded by their own stupidity...

Quoted For Truth

 

[Blabj]

Can a mod ban this guy for calling everyone illiterate and trying to flamebait pretty much everyone on this board?

No, the forums have been somewhat lacking since we banned Peregrine anyways, we need more elitest bigots to cause a ruckus.

 

[Firestreak]

Why is it always the Dynamis leads? Must take a certain kind of personality type to dedicate all your free time to getting shit that you swap in for Sentinal and shield bash every 5 minutes.

 

[Blabj]

All that power rushes to their head making them think they're invincible. Yes, even Uzor displays this sign of Dynamis Leader's ailment (you don't see him not retorting. However I love Uzor so it's ok).

Reminds me of QCDN moder-- Never mind

 

[metachronism]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (ĭ-lē'tĭz'əm, ā-lē'-)
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority.

Dynamis Hypothetical.

If a 30 member group can easily clear a zone in under 2 hours, how many people will be required if "non-optimal" mellees are required?

Someone in this thread stated that "otipmal" mellees deal 30% more DPS than "non-optimal" mellees. If this is the case (and they aren't my figures) then, assuming your 30 member group had no more than 20 mellees, your new group would only need 26 mellees (13/10*20). So a group of 36 people with 26DRGs (apoloigies to the DRGs for using them as an example) will clear a zone just as quickly as a group of 30 with 20 WAR/NINs. Using the same basis, a 30 person group with 20 "non-optimal" mellees will do 10/13 of the damage on the optimal group, in the same amount of time, and will clear the same zone in about 2hr 20 (10/13*120min). Slightly slower, but still pretty damn good.

To suggest that the only way to clear a zone quickly is to stack that group with certain mellees is pretty elitist. Fortunately, just about everyone in this thread realises this isn't the case, but I quess there are a few idiots out there who are blinded by their own stupidity...

Do I have to make comments about people and their mathematical and analytical skills?

1) Why is the bard missing in the equation? Or in the world of your assumptions, you have bards attending every melee member? The differential between a DRG with no brd and a hypothetical WAR with a brd, assuming 30% difference from each element is 169% from the base DRG. Why don't you try recalculating from that?

1.5) Why is the double-potency refresh from the brd+rdm configuration not considered. Or do people just not cast spells in your fantasy dynamis group?

2) Utsusemi. Why is the MP consumption mitigation from having the overwhelming majority have utsusemi not considered?

Finally, your calculations aside, do you, in your hypothetical dynamis, believe that you can even survive with a group of non-utsusemi-only melee jobs? Please tell me of what an LS without nins, wars, mnks will look like which can pull it off. This goes back to the question I asked long ago in this thread.

 

[Uzor]

All that power rushes to their head making them think they're invincible. Yes, even Uzor displays this sign of Dynamis Leader's ailment (you don't see him not retorting. However I love Uzor so it's ok).

Reminds me of QCDN moder-- Never mind

Guilty as charged... I suppose. I think I inherited it from my dad... and he owns a store. coincidence? >.>

 

[Blabj]

Does he do Dynamis-StoreDuringBusyHoursOnASaturday with his numerous employees, then bitch about strats at store owner conventions?

 

[Uzor]

Do I have to make comments about people and their mathematical and analytical skills?

1) Why is the bard missing in the equation? Or in the world of your assumptions, you have bards attending every melee member? The differential between a DRG with no brd and a hypothetical WAR with a brd, assuming 30% difference from each element is 169% from the base DRG. Why don't you try recalculating from that?

1.5) Why is the double-potency refresh from the brd+rdm configuration not considered. Or do people just not cast spells in your fantasy dynamis group?

2) Utsusemi. Why is the MP consumption mitigation from having the overwhelming majority have utsusemi not considered?

3) Finally, your calculations aside, do you, in your hypothetical dynamis, believe that you can even survive with a group of non-utsusemi-only melee jobs? Please tell me of what an LS without nins, wars, mnks will look like which can pull it off. This goes back to the question I asked long ago in this thread.

1) If you have a BRD with the DRG's, you don't need to calculate the BRD since it's an equal factor.

1.5) Because if you have RDM + BRD otherwise too, it's an equal factor.

2) Because normal melees can sub NIN too. It's not WAR exclusive. While yes, I wouldn't reccomend DRG's etc. subbing NIN, I don't see melees normally getting hit anyway unless it's an AoE attack. But the WHM can take care of that, and as long as they don't lose more MP then they can keep up, that won't be a problem. And so far, even with only 3 WHMes, that haven't been a problem. Keeping HP and MP high are what stones are for, anyway (and refresh whores).

3) Yes. My shell have done just fine in Dynamis. I believe we don't have any WAR's with high attendance in my shell. Those that lvled WAR coems as other jobs they enjoy playing more. We do have 2 MNK's, but they sub WAR. We also have 2 NIN, but their main job is to kite stones so they won't go after the mages casting sleepga. But even a PLD could kite stones.

Utsusemi isn't the end-all-break-all in Dynamis. It's actually rather useless if people know their shit. I'd much rather melees sub WAR or THF for higher damage/higher drop rates

 

[Firestreak]

Do I have to make comments about people and their mathematical and analytical skills?

1) Why is the bard missing in the equation? Or in the world of your assumptions, you have bards attending every melee member? The differential between a DRG with no brd and a hypothetical WAR with a brd, assuming 30% difference from each element is 169% from the base DRG. Why don't you try recalculating from that?

1.5) Why is the double-potency refresh from the brd+rdm configuration not considered. Or do people just not cast spells in your fantasy dynamis group?

2) Utsusemi. Why is the MP consumption mitigation from having the overwhelming majority have utsusemi not considered?

Finally, your calculations aside, do you, in your hypothetical dynamis, believe that you can even survive with a group of non-utsusemi-only melee jobs? Please tell me of what an LS without nins, wars, mnks will look like which can pull it off. This goes back to the question I asked long ago in this thread.

First off, you came up with the 30%.

Second off, it was obviously a number pulled out of your ass.

Thirdly, considering it was a random number, why would you be a stickler to modifiers about it when it doesn't even matter because the original number isn't real?

Fourthly, the ratio will shift depending on how well different weapons hit different mobs.

Fifthly, both would have a brd for comparative purposes.

Sixthly, if you're going to factor in brd, you have to factor how BRD affects them differently, how if they'd have a BRD at all, for example, BRD helps all of the WAR's dmg, but for a DRG it only helps their regular dmg not their wyvern dmg.

And lastly... why does it even matter if it's 1% better ot 400% better? Are you arguing how big of a difference it is or are you arguing that it's immoral at all?

 

[Uzor]

Does he do Dynamis-StoreDuringBusyHoursOnASaturday with his numerous employees, then bitch about strats at store owner conventions?

No. He ownes a clothes store.

surprisingly, I'm a perfectionist at work... I hate if papers aren't in exact order (year, month, day, hour, minute, second)... Maybe that's why I have Aalea do the paper work in Dynamis? xD Speaking of which... I better head to bed, have to open tomorrow >.< but Salvage! T_T

 

[Courtney]

But anyway, I think you're way off as far as the whole Courtney being elitist about dynamis clearing success. I'm sure it's probably due to an abundance of her members being decked with gear that's far better than AF2 and being fully merited rather than cherry picking only the right jobs. Not fair to call that elitist, but it makes her crew not really comparable to your crew as they see Dynamis as just tiny aspect of endgame, allowing them to be better prepared to move to the point where the mobs are inconsequential.

Of course at this point in FF you can't just make a shell like that anymore, these shells are dynasties that drains the top talent of the server making it harder for other shells to move up to that same level.

So in that way, you're right as well, as no matter how hard you try, you won't be able to top their shell at this point because the very best people would go there not with you no matter what as they're already established.

Hardly any of the guys in the shell camp HNMs, and apart from me and one Adaberk, there really isn't much (apart from AF2) that's any different from the average player that's been 75 for awhile. They are well merited though, and I suspect that a lot of the members have maxed merits for the jobs they're using.

I think the biggest factor, is that for the last year we've had a lot of the same people (probably >75%) stay in shell, and turn up week after week. Everyone knows the routes, and what to expect, and it makes thing go a lot smoother. We do have players come and go, but having the same core group for a long time really helps, and it feels like we're always going forward.

I don't think that anything we're doing is particularly special, but yeah, it is hard to keep an experienced group together, because most LSs don't offer any incentive to stick around after you've got your AF2, and at 3.5hours Dynamis gets pretty draining doing it 2x per week without some form of reward...

 

[Uzor]

Hardly any of the guys in the shell camp HNMs, and apart from me and one Adaberk, there really isn't much (apart from AF2) that's any different from the average player that's been 75 for awhile. They are well merited though, and I suspect that a lot of the members have maxed merits for the jobs they're using.

I think the biggest factor, is that for the last year we've had a lot of the same people (probably >75%) stay in shell, and turn up week after week. Everyone knows the routes, and what to expect, and it makes thing go a lot smoother. We do have players come and go, but having the same core group for a long time really helps, and it feels like we're always going forward.

I don't think that anything we're doing is particularly special, but yeah, it is hard to keep an experienced group together, because most LSs don't offer any incentive to stick around after you've got your AF2, and at 3.5hours Dynamis gets pretty draining doing it 2x per week without some form of reward...

Yeah, I love my core members <3 it was fun looking through the old records to see how much we've improved as a shell. From attempting Bastok 3 times untill we finally won, to almost clearing the entire zone with the same ammount of members.

 

[Firestreak]

Having a good core is great, but to be core member material requires not only attending dynamis but constant leveling so they'll be more jobs to get AF2 for, otherwise in time they'll drop off with nothing to give them, at which point you'll need to recruit and them the rules benefiting the older members may work to discourage new people from joining resulting in nobody getting anything.

Sometimes you can do everything perfectly and still fail. For this reason taking advantage of every edge you can possible give yourself can keep your shell afloat, learning as many new tricks and getting as many cannon style jobs leveled for your shell as possible.

 

[metachronism]

1) If you have a BRD with the DRG's, you don't need to calculate the BRD since it's an equal factor.

1.5) Because if you have RDM + BRD otherwise too, it's an equal factor.

Gee, how many bards and rdms do you have in the LS then? Did I mention something about disproportionate distribution of merit jobs...? brd/rdm are merit favorites too.

2) Because normal melees can sub NIN too. It's not WAR exclusive. While yes, I wouldn't reccomend DRG's etc. subbing NIN, I don't see melees normally getting hit anyway unless it's an AoE attack. But the WHM can take care of that, and as long as they don't lose more MP then they can keep up, that won't be a problem. And so far, even with only 3 WHMes, that haven't been a problem. Keeping HP and MP high are what stones are for, anyway (and refresh whores).

Yeah, then you are doing even *less* damage than the 70% mark in criteria 1.

3) Yes. My shell have done just fine in Dynamis. I believe we don't have any WAR's with high attendance in my shell. Those that lvled WAR coems as other jobs they enjoy playing more. We do have 2 MNK's, but they sub WAR. We also have 2 NIN, but their main job is to kite stones so they won't go after the mages casting sleepga. But even a PLD could kite stones.

Utsusemi isn't the end-all-break-all in Dynamis. It's actually rather useless if people know their shit. I'd much rather melees sub WAR or THF for higher damage/higher drop rates

So how often do you clear the cities with such a configuration? Do you not see what I've been getting at this whole time? Do you go in there every run and assume you're going to kill every mob?

Firestreak, 30% is a very *generous* (to the non-merit favorite jobs, that is) number when you compare the "favored" jobs with the other DD jobs. This is, of course, well equipped on both sides, and without ridiculous subs like drg/nin. You have to remember that the favorite jobs have a much higher hate ceiling because they don't have to worry about taking hate because of utsusemi *and* high damage. That's what makes the difference between 30k/hr merit parties and 10k/hr merit parties. Dynamis mobs generally don't have special resistances or weakenesses to weapon types, so you can't even take into consideration the piercing bonus in the case of drgs in merit parties.

If you missed the original argument, I'm saying it's stupid to assume that the norm is to clear the zones with 30 some people when you don't form the LS into large-scale merit pt + blm group and that the attitude that "most people can come as those jobs" is not only stupid, but an arrogant "end gamer" view.

 

[Firestreak]

Note: That's probably a good reason to use the CoP dynamis realms, when you want to slow the progress of AF2 so your core members don't run out of AF2 to get and then leave. As well to add a different twist to keep core members coming to try and get +1 on their best gear.