Question to other Dynamis LS's

[Courtney]

Having a good core is great, but to be core member material requires not only attending dynamis but constant leveling so they'll be more jobs to get AF2 for, otherwise in time they'll drop off with nothing to give them, at which point you'll need to recruit and them the rules benefiting the older members may work to discourage new people from joining resulting in nobody getting anything.

Not if there are incentives to turn up other than AF2. Out of our core 40, we have at least 25% of members (me included) who aren't working toward AF2. Keeping those members coming back is the key, because they're the ones that are experienced, both in game, and specifically in Dynamis.

 

[Uzor]

Gee, how many bards and rdms do you have in the LS then? Did I mention something about disproportionate distribution of merit jobs...? brd/rdm are merit favorites too.

So basically, when you said "the most efficient versus not most efficient" argument you've been going at is assumign the most efficient is RDM, BRD, BLM, WAR, MNK only? While the non-efficient excludes all of them?

Well, that's jsut stupid to say the least. Give me a single Dynamis LS's that don't have any BRD's, RDM's, WAR's, MNK's and BLM's and I'll agree. Hell, my LS only have 2 BRD's coming at a constant rate, and 3 RDMes.

So how often do you clear the cities with such a configuration? Do you not see what I've been getting at this whole time? Do you go in there every run and assume you're going to kill every mob?

We haven't cleared a zone completely. Closest we got with 25 was pulling everything except gustaberg gate and MH.

If you missed the original argument, I'm saying it's stupid to assume that the norm is clear the zones with 30 some people when you don't form the LS into large-scale merit pt + blm group and that the attitude that "most people can come as those jobs" is not only stupid, but an arrogant "end gamer" view.

We never assumed that's the norm. No one did. You said it's impossible, and Courtney just said that it is, indeed, possible, because her LS does it. You're the person arguing that we're assuming it's the norm when, in fact, none of us said it is.

Seriously, arguing with you is worse then arguing with a brick wall. Atleast the brick wall is smart enough not to respond.

 

[Skaw]

brd/rdm are merit favorites too.

Oh lord.. BRD/RDM are general fucking gameplay favorites, idiot. I guess you could put COR up there too for refresh, but thats solely dependant on how many at 75 are doing Dynamis. I'm guessing that number is pretty slim right now.

Don't invite any refreshers to Dynamis! That skews the job proportion! Wow, how retarded of a statement to claim.

 

[Firestreak]

Oh I've already said I agree that it's a pointless addition to say that what Courtney's shell can do and your shell can do is comparable. But I don't think it's because of what jobs they have versus what jobs you have. Zerg jobs are a side affect of a more established shell where the members level more jobs to keep a reason to getting AF2. It's a side affect of members oriented in other aspects of the game than solely Dynamis as the end-all of end-game.

 

[Uzor]

Having a good core is great, but to be core member material requires not only attending dynamis but constant leveling so they'll be more jobs to get AF2 for, otherwise in time they'll drop off with nothing to give them, at which point you'll need to recruit and them the rules benefiting the older members may work to discourage new people from joining resulting in nobody getting anything.

Sometimes you can do everything perfectly and still fail. For this reason taking advantage of every edge you can possible give yourself can keep your shell afloat, learning as many new tricks and getting as many cannon style jobs leveled for your shell as possible.

Like Courtney said, that's because you need to entertain them otherwise. I won't stop doing Dynamis even when I'm 6/6 AF for all of my jobs, and all of my AF are H.Q. I think Dynamis is fun, I do it because I think it's fun. And I hope my members think Dynamis is fun aswell.

And I personally think our lotting system is rather fair towards new players. While yes, it does favourite older members, that's because it's impossible to make a completely fair system. So you have to favourize one or the other, and personally, I think it's more beneficial to favourize the older members since those are the ones that know best what they're doing. But yes, I would atleast like to think our lotting system is rather fair to new members.

Note: That's probably a good reason to use the CoP dynamis realms, when you want to slow the progress of AF2 so your core members don't run out of AF2 to get and then leave. As well to add a different twist to keep core members coming to try and get +1 on their best gear.

Yeah, we've started to explore the dreamlands. We're winning Buburimu on Thursday, so hopefully we'll get some nice drops from the nightmare mobs afterwards.

 

[Firestreak]

Not if there are incentives to turn up other than AF2. Out of our core 40, we have at least 25% of members (me included) who aren't working toward AF2. Keeping those members coming back is the key, because they're the ones that are experienced, both in game, and specifically in Dynamis.

Well you've got...

AF2
+1
Relic Weapons
Shadow stuff

And in a rare moment I'll give credit to Peregrine for giving members gil. If I had total control over my LS when I was running it, I'd have done the same thing instead of trying to sponsor upgraders. Afterall, upgrading = 1 person staying... until they get their upgrade. Keeping gil flowing is potentially tons of people staying.




Of course the ultimate way to keep people coming is to have a shell attached to a HNM shell, so you would keep going to get gear for people you see more than 6 hours a week.

 

[metachronism]

So basically, when you said "the most efficient versus not most efficient" argument you've been going at is assumign the most efficient is RDM, BRD, BLM, WAR, MNK only? While the non-efficient excludes all of them?

Well, that's jsut stupid to say the least. Give me a single Dynamis LS's that don't have any BRD's, RDM's, WAR's, MNK's and BLM's and I'll agree. Hell, my LS only have 2 BRD's coming at a constant rate, and 3 RDMes.

Then have courtney disclose the job configuration when the purported 1-hour-left zone clears were done. I can tell you now they will be overwhelmingly those jobs (of course, he has confirmed that already, just without the actual numbers), with maybe a couple of the "sub-optimal" (as he put it) jobs. Of course it's stupid. I'm not the one who came up with the stupid all drg vs all war example, that was courtney. It is, however, useful in establishing the lower and upper bounds.

So, do you have a bard and rdm in every party? If not, there is every reason to add that to the equation. The merit-style configuration *will* have brds in most, if not all of the parties. At least the 30-man clear LS did.

We haven't cleared a zone completely. Closest we got with 25 was pulling everything except gustaberg gate and MH.

We never assumed that's the norm. No one did. You said it's impossible, and Courtney just said that it is, indeed, possible, because her LS does it. You're the person arguing that we're assuming it's the norm when, in fact, none of us said it is.

Quote me where I said it's impossible? And you probably didn't even read the subsequent posts by courtney where he goes on talking about why there is no reason not to clear the zone. If that's not treating it as if it's the norm, I don't know what is.

Seriously, arguing with you is worse then arguing with a brick wall. Atleast the brick wall is smart enough not to respond.

I guess you'd have a better time with the brick wall--at least it's nice enough not to tell you about your deficiencies.

 

[Courtney]

We never assumed that's the norm. No one did. You said it's impossible, and Courtney just said that it is, indeed, possible, because her LS does it. You're the person arguing that we're assuming it's the norm when, in fact, none of us said it is.

Once again, I never said that... that was Metachronism too...

 

[metachronism]

Once again, I never said that... that was Metachronism too...

If it's not hard to pull off, then it should be the primary objective... everyone gets the win, you get the max AF2/coins, you can take 34 people with non optimal jobs, and everyone is out in under 2 hours.... I'm not seeing a downside there?

Durrrr.

 

[Courtney]

I'm sure a "lesser" job or two in the mix won't "impact efficiency" when the all of the other dd (read: nin, war, mnk) in the group already deliver 30% and upward more DPS each than what they can do, on top of maybe another 30% that the bards add to the base.

~~~~~~~

 

[Courtney]

Which was in response to...

In all honesty, you can clear the cities with 30 people in under 2 hours if your melee jobs are overwhelmingly nin or war/nin and have bards. However, if you have an egalitarian LS which doesn't discriminate against people without the "optimal jobs" (which, I hope is true for most LSs out there), clearing in under 2 hours with such numbers, especially with an ensured win, is pretty difficult.

 

[metachronism]

Which was in response to...

Which is why I asked why you missed the if. We could go on and regurgitate the whole thread like this.

 

[Courtney]

In all honesty, you can clear the cities with 30 people in under 2 hours if your melee jobs are overwhelmingly nin or war/nin and have bards. However, if you have an egalitarian LS which doesn't discriminate against people without the "optimal jobs" (which, I hope is true for most LSs out there), clearing in under 2 hours with such numbers, especially with an ensured win, is pretty difficult.

If it's not hard to pull off, then it should be the primary objective... everyone gets the win, you get the max AF2/coins, you can take 34 people with non optimal jobs, and everyone is out in under 2 hours.... I'm not seeing a downside there?

You're the one that introduced 30 people, you're the one that introduced finishing in under 2 hours...
~~~~~~~

 

[Firestreak]

Why you arguing over the context of Courtney's statement over a percieved elitism when I'm outright telling you that as a party leader I'll look past jobs I don't like that are seeking and wait for a MNK WAR NIN to be available?

 

[metachronism]

~~~~~~~

And the "if" qualifier went where? How do you go from what's in the first quote to the second, ignoring the if?

So, in the second cycle of the whole thread: because you made the assumption that the conditional is true. Because you happen to be in such an environment. And all of your subsequent points are made with that assumption.

So, now you're finally positioning yourself to answer the question: what kind of a group of 34 "non-optimal" people do you see doing the same as a 30 fully tuned group for that purpose? I'd like to see the plds, drgs, drks, bsts, and sams, and smns with realistic demographics in the mix. Please don't tell me people with only those jobs leveled to 75 don't exist. If you do, you don't have any way out of saying that you're not elitist.

 

[meeze]

I hate elitist assholes that don't let WARs tank, they can do things easier with PLDs and NINs, what elist pricks!!!!!! WARs are the ones with Provoke!!!

 

[Courtney]

And the "if" qualifier went where? How do you go from what's in the first quote to the second, ignoring the if?

So, in the second cycle of the whole thread: because you made the assumption that the conditional is true. Because you happen to be in such an environment. And all of your subsequent points are made with that assumption.

So, now you're finally positioning yourself to answer the question: what kind of a group of 34 "non-optimal" people do you see doing the same as a 30 fully tuned group for that purpose? I'd like to see the plds, drgs, drks, bsts, and sams, and smns with realistic demographics in the mix. Please don't tell me people with only those jobs leveled to 75 don't exist. If you do, you don't have any way out of saying that you're not elitist.

IF 30 people can win with optimal mellee jobs (your statement).

THEN 34 people can win with non-optimal mellee jobs (my statement).

 

[metachronism]

IF 30 people can win with optimal mellee jobs (your statement).

THEN 34 people can win with non-optimal mellee jobs (my statement).

I thought we agreed that "clearing" meant to kill all mobs? I will assume that's what you mean by "win" if that isn't yet another outburst of arrogance.

So, for about the fifth time, what would this 34-man LS look like? It goes without saying that the 30-man LS has an extremely draconian job configuration.

By "with non-optimal 'mellee' jobs", one would presume that there is a reasonable mix of them in there--otherwise the statement is tautological and pointless--if you're going to say it's going to be the same as the 30-man, except you add a drg, a pld, a bst, and a drk, you are indeed worthy of the guillotine.

 

[Courtney]

What's the point. Everytime I answer one of your idiotic questions, you just ignore it and go onto something else. I answered that question two pages back, and you just went onto something else, now you're back on this again?

You misquote. Takes quotes out of context. And just plain lie about whats been said, all so you can somehow prove that I'm elitist (ironically because I keep arguing that you can nearly as well WITHOUT the optimal setup). If it that's important to you, you can keep raving to yourself... the only audience that's important to you, is you anyway...

 

[metachronism]

What's the point. Everytime I answer one of your idiotic questions, you just ignore it and go onto something else. I answered that question two pages back, and you just went onto something else, now you're back on this again?

You misquote. Takes quotes out of context. And just plain lie about whats been said, all so you can somehow prove that I'm elitist (ironically because I keep arguing that you can nearly as well WITHOUT the optimal setup). If it that's important to you, you can keep raving to yourself... the only audience that's important to you, is you anyway...

How could I have misquoted when you are the one who chose the quotes (sorry, I lol'ed in RL there)? Feel free to point out where I'm "lying."

If you did answer somewhere what the configuration would be like, and I missed it in the inundation of posts, I do apologize, though. But really, it was like 10 pages ago I asked, and you answered 2 pages ago after all the "you don't know anything" garbage?

What's "ironic" is that you keep insisting that your elitist configuration which you take for granted has nothing to do with the results, when even your friends who came to save your face admit that it does. You admit to it yourself, as you quickly cover yourself with a "oh, but we did have some of the 'other jobs' after you disclosed the group config, which "ironically" looked awfully similar to the aforementioned exclusive one. Was there even a reason to mention that if you truly believed it has nothing to do with the result?

I'll go hunt for that post in which you outline a group that doesn't look like a bunch of merit parties and blms that can clear out the cities with 34 people. If the demographics look even remotely like what the majority of all existing dynamis LSs have, I can tell you it's not going to be clearing out the zones.

A lot of the folks here are so dense that they don't understand people's attitudes unless they're bluntly stated. But you know, you and your friends are overflowing with arrogance (yes, meeze, I know you're going to say something about me and a certain group of people. Sadly, the ones I encounter all happen to share this certain attribute, to varying degrees). It's most reprehensible when they don't even realize it and act like they don't know what people mean when it's pointed out to them.

Whether you fail to see the logistical impossibilities in your claims, or you're just trying to save face at this point, I don't know. I don't care.

It looks like we're both done here. Keep eating cake. You'd be surprised how much bread is in lack outside your world.