Question to other Dynamis LS's

[metachronism]

That's why I said both of you fail at reading comprehension. I guess you didn't "read long and hard" enough.

The point he is making is that the # of mobs was set on the higher side so that when people go in with the *expected* kind of heterogeneous demographics, they don't run out of mobs all the time, as that would render the extensions pointless in their existence in the design.

That's why most LS with numbers in the low 30s aren't clearing out the zones every run, because that's how it was intended to be.

How many LS with 64 people do you see around? Do you believe the content was designed so that people can't complete it when they have under 64, in a heterogenous group?

Or do you take the preceding statement and say that it is the norm to be clearing the zone in lower numbers? How is that a useful statement, other than to gloat? 35-40 clearing the zone is not unheard of in the least, but with that much time remaining, it's easy to deduce that the job configuration is not the kind of distribution you'd see if you draw from the general player pool. Going on and talking as if that's the norm is what I said was elitist and arrogant.

 

[decidence]

I think Meta is the only one that understood the point I was trying to get across, from a Game Design perspective.

 

[meeze]

I don't think you can clear the mobs of any dynamis zone in 2hrs, no matter how godly you are. The closest we came was within 1 stone of clearing bastok after getting all extensions including the win. And we had around 50-52 members in attendance that night, which also set records for most Relic and Single Coins.

from site:
Most Relic: 19, Bastok 11/14/06
Most 1c's: 304, Bastok 11/14/06

Of course people are happier with shorter runs, hell I would be too, but I think SE made it so the best LS's in the game would still have a hard time clearing the zone with a full 3hr run time, this means a full 3hrs of potential Relic drops and currency farming, which is probably better then running out of mobs after 2hrs.

If your arguing efficiency, then I would say the longer the run the more efficient use of time since you will be getting more drops and more chance of people getting what they want the longer you are in the zone and the more you can kill during your time in the zone increases that efficiency further.

First part of this post says Deci doesn't think a zone can be cleared in 2 hours. Second part says he'd rather stay in a zone 3 hours and farm, rather than kill EVERY mob (which in turn maximizes farming) in 2 hours.

Well, even meta said there are LSs that can clear zones. Now, by definition, the win is attained, and every possible piece of AF and currency has been farmed. By doing so in 2 hours with zerg jobs rather than 3, you are automatically more efficient.

Zerging is a more efficient way to kills.

This content is extremely old, the mobs are fairly low level, and are easily killed. Repeating the same thing over and over without getting better faster is redundant. It used to take the full time to beat zones, just the win. Now LSs with "balance" leave after the win with tons of time left.

Every job has gotten better since dynamis came out and it shows. Merits and gear allow several jobs to solo/duo most dynamis mobs, and those jobs are favorable because they kill mobs faster.

Again, why would anyone want to hang out in dynamis for 3 hours, when zerging it in 2 would get you every benefit of taking 3 hours, plus saving you an hour ofyour life to do something else.

 

[Rappa]

Okay, too much ignorance in this topic so time to clear it up for everyone. I'm going to let you in on the top secret that determines how quickly a shell can clear a dynamis zone. Surprisingly (well, obviously to some people), it's not job selection.

The number one factor in the successful performance of a Dynamis linkshell is not the jobs that the people are playing, it's THE PEOPLE that are playing.

There you have it. This is the only thing that determines how long a run will take. Do you have people afking during sac pulls? Have your players cleared Bastok long enough that they know exactly where to go without being told? Do your melee know how to keep hate on a tank / to have autotarget off / etc? Does your puller limit bad pulls to the point that on the very rare occasion that they happen you can handle them w/o a problem?

Use some common sense. Who is going to get the job done better? A group of players who are green to dynamis but have "merit jobs", or a group of experienced dynamis players using a hodgepodge of jobs? You can circlejerk for 300 more posts if you want to, but what it boils down to is talent and dedication of your players. If you want to clear a zone in two hours, you need players who won't fuck up. That's the key, not job distribution.

You can return to your ridiculous "discussion" now (I don't like the use that term since it's basically just an e-peen / French Revolution term paper at this point). Don't forget your thesauruses!

 

[meeze]

Use some common sense. Who is going to get the job done better? A group of players who are green to dynamis but have "merit jobs", or a group of experienced dynamis players using a hodgepodge of jobs? You can circlejerk for 300 more posts if you want to, but what it boils down to is talent and dedication of your players. If you want to clear a zone in two hours, you need players who won't fuck up. That's the key, not job distribution.

And one of the points of this thread is that most dedicated players already have a zerg job leveled, so you're even further ahead of curve.

 

[Bajaratt]

That's why I said both of you fail at reading comprehension. I guess you didn't "read long and hard" enough.

The point he is making is that the # of mobs was set on the higher side so that when people go in with the *expected* kind of heterogeneous demographics, they don't run out of mobs all the time, as that would render the extensions pointless in their existence in the design.

That's why most LS with numbers in the low 30s aren't clearing out the zones every run, because that's how it was intended to be.

How many LS with 64 people do you see around? Do you believe the content was designed so that people can't complete it when they have under 64, in a heterogenous group?

Or do you take the preceding statement and say that it is the norm to be clearing the zone in lower numbers? How is that a useful statement, other than to gloat? 35-40 clearing the zone is not unheard of in the least, but with that much time remaining, it's easy to deduce that the job configuration is not the kind of distribution you'd see if you draw from the general player pool. Going on and talking as if that's the norm is what I said was elitist and arrogant.

As far as an equal distribution of jobs, war, mnk and nin are in very high numbers. Most people who level other jobs to 75 find themselves not invited to the merit cannons and level one of those jobs so they can join in.

Right now, of the 481 level 75's that are not anon, there are:

32 war
41 Mnk
46 Nin
54 Rdm
63 Whm
17 Brd
72 Blm
13 Drk
32 Thf
34 Pld
9 Rng
15 Smn
11 Bst
9 Drg
17 Sam

The rest are probably new jobs, but aren't really important atm.

So of the "cannonable jobs," being war, nin, brd, mnk, whm, rdm, blm, that accounts for 325 of those level 75's. That's 67.6% of the player base, so going into dynamis with the majority of your players as one of those jobs IS representative of the overall player base. By these numbers, you should only have 1 bst, drk, drg, or rng and 2 samurai's in your linkshell in order to have a "proper" distribution of jobs; but there are no linkshells that deny people without one of the "merit jobs" in order to meet an accurate quota of the players.

So, because you can do it with ~35 of the "merit jobs," there is no reason to think that you can't do the same thing with a slightly larger number of the non-cannon jobs.

 

[Zoolander]

Cannon jobs arent always the best in dynamis anyway. And also, a large majority of ppl with "cannon" jobs leveled are pretty gimp. I'd wager a large amount of gil my SAM, as well as many others, could own alot of wars in merits. And dynamis is even more favored to a sam/war, since we dont have to hold back at all, unlike a merit party where we most likely would need to sit on TP some. And the more time between mobs, the better a SAM is compared to a war.

I'd say the only cannon jobs that really have a big difference on your success is the amount of bards, blackmages, and redmages. Having march/minuet and haste on all melees is a huge advantage, no matter what jobs your melee are.

And whoever said you cant clear a zone in under 2 hours. Yes, you can. Dont see a need to explain that...since myself as well as im sure several others have done so.

 

[Firestreak]

Chuck Norris can clear Dynamis Xarc in 60 minutes. And he spends the first 50 minutes having sex with Metachronism's sister.

 

[Artem]

Chuck Norris can clear Dynamis Xarc in 60 minutes. And he spends the first 50 minutes having sex with Metachronism's sister.

lol, you win this thread

 

[metachronism]

As far as an equal distribution of jobs, war, mnk and nin are in very high numbers. Most people who level other jobs to 75 find themselves not invited to the merit cannons and level one of those jobs so they can join in.

Right now, of the 481 level 75's that are not anon, there are:

32 war
41 Mnk
46 Nin
54 Rdm
63 Whm
17 Brd
72 Blm
13 Drk
32 Thf
34 Pld
9 Rng
15 Smn
11 Bst
9 Drg
17 Sam

The rest are probably new jobs, but aren't really important atm.

So of the "cannonable jobs," being war, nin, brd, mnk, whm, rdm, blm, that accounts for 325 of those level 75's. That's 67.6% of the player base, so going into dynamis with the majority of your players as one of those jobs IS representative of the overall player base. By these numbers, you should only have 1 bst, drk, drg, or rng and 2 samurai's in your linkshell in order to have a "proper" distribution of jobs; but there are no linkshells that deny people without one of the "merit jobs" in order to meet an accurate quota of the players.

So, because you can do it with ~35 of the "merit jobs," there is no reason to think that you can't do the same thing with a slightly larger number of the non-cannon jobs.

What makes you think the unanon people are a good representation of the server? How many more people were anon? How many of the unanon were already in parties doing something, or seeking?

You need to think about the people who are going around unanon. They are most likely people who are looking to do something (be it meriting or whatever end-game content it may be), or already doing so. In fact, the numbers of blms should make that pretty obvious. A lot of people remain anon nowadays unless they are in a situation they need to convey to others what jobs they are. A soloing drg has a good chance to be anon. A bunch of people who are meriting amongst friends (a reason might be because they're the "ace" jobs and they'd end up seeking for hours if the tried to find a random party) might be anon as well.

If you want to use that distribution as a base, sure, sit back and think about it. If you want to go back to the hypothetical 34-man group, look at the distribution (capping the minimum to 1), starting from lowest

1 drg
1 bst
1 smn
1 rng
1 drk
1 brd
1 sam
2 pld (secound highest remainder, so round up to 3)
2 war
2 thf
3 mnk
3 nin
4 rdm
4 whm (highest remainder, so round up to 5)
5 blm

While it looks like a well rounded group that will do just fine, it's not going to clear out the zone in 2 hours or less. What prevents it is the lack of enough "zerg" melee to split off into multiple mobs to cut down on selection time, and the profound lack of brds to go around for the melees in general.

I was the one who brought up the 30-man zone clear in 2 hours (as there are accounts of such groups). But obviously, the job configuration of such groups are heavily skewed, and the claim that some here made that a group of 34 (4 more people) with deskewed job distribution can perform the same just isn't true. Does the above group look to you like it can clear sandy in 2 hours, zoolander?

The guys coming in to heckle are starting to look pretty pitiful, as it makes it pretty clear they're just desperate to take stabs at whatever they can... but that's typical QCDN quality, isn't it?

 

[Peregrin]

All you need to finish Dynamis is a godly THF and a buch of people named after relic weapons^^ We beat Dyna taz in 30 seconds because of 5 people named after relics being in the zone on our first run.

 

[Bajaratt]

What makes you think the unanon people are a good representation of the server? How many more people were anon? How many of the unanon were already in parties doing something, or seeking?

You need to think about the people who are going around unanon. They are most likely people who are looking to do something (be it meriting or whatever end-game content it may be), or already doing so. In fact, the numbers of blms should make that pretty obvious. A lot of people remain anon nowadays unless they are in a situation they need to convey to others what jobs they are. A soloing drg has a good chance to be anon. A bunch of people who are meriting amongst friends (a reason might be because they're the "ace" jobs and they'd end up seeking for hours if the tried to find a random party) might be anon as well.

If you want to use that distribution as a base, sure, sit back and think about it. If you want to go back to the hypothetical 34-man group, look at the distribution (capping the minimum to 1), starting from lowest

1 drg
1 bst
1 smn
1 rng
1 drk
1 brd
1 sam
2 pld (secound highest remainder, so round up to 3)
2 war
2 thf
3 mnk
3 nin
4 rdm
4 whm (highest remainder, so round up to 5)
5 blm

While it looks like a well rounded group that will do just fine, it's not going to clear out the zone in 2 hours or less. What prevents it is the lack of enough "zerg" melee to split off into multiple mobs to cut down on selection time, and the profound lack of brds to go around for the melees in general.

I was the one who brought up the 30-man zone clear in 2 hours (as there are accounts of such groups). But obviously, the job configuration of such groups are heavily skewed, and the claim that some here made that a group of 34 (4 more people) with deskewed job distribution can perform the same just isn't true. Does the above group look to you like it can clear sandy in 2 hours, zoolander?

The guys coming in to heckle are starting to look pretty pitiful, as it makes it pretty clear they're just desperate to take stabs at whatever they can... but that's typical QCDN quality, isn't it?

There aren't going to be enough anon people to skew the results in favor of the non-cannon jobs; especially since only the cannon jobs(pretty much only mages, actually) would get enough tells to warrant going anon for some peace. What's more, your reasons for people going anon are extremely slim; there's no reason for people to go anon anymore. The only endgame reason before was to try to hide that you were camping an HNM, but that died quickly when people realized that 50 anon people might be camping an NM.

Unanon people are really the only representation of people that you can get. Unless you know every player on the server and their jobs, the only way to get any information is to search for them. I've already shown in the only way possible that jobs are skewed towards the cannon jobs, so unless you have any actual proof that cannon jobs are not in the majority; my point is still valid.

 

[meeze]

There aren't going to be enough anon people to skew the results in favor of the non-cannon jobs

You're lying baja!!! All those DRGs, DRKs, RNGs, THFs, and PUPs beating off the invites are always /anon.

If anything those that are /anon are even a higher percentage cannon-able.

 

[Uzor]

Just came home from London, and see Meta is still going on about it.

Anyway, I'm too tired to respond to a broken-record, so this thread might aswell be locked. Everyone but Meta and his butt buddy seem to understand the point.

 

[metachronism]

The amusement value of letting you contradict yourself in every other post has kind of waned.

I mean, it's funny for a while, but then the feeling of pity starts to overtake--especially when you don't even realize that you're saying two opposite things at once.

My suggestion: know what you want to argue for before you post. You look like a fucking clown when you keep switching sides on the points you're trying to make.

Well, if you're doing it on purpose for the comedic value, I'm not stopping you. I'm sure some got a good hearty laugh out of it.

 

[Bajaratt]

know what you want to argue for before you post. You look like a fucking clown when you keep switching sides on the points you're trying to make..

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[metachronism]

Pot, meet kettle.

If both sides look contradictory to you, then it means you got *nothing* out of the whole thread--in which case that's a reading comprehension issue on your part.

But of course, it seems you take it to heart as one of the qcdn stooges to show up on every thread where the other two post, so I can't really fault you for that, either.

 

[Marajade]

If both sides look contradictory to you, then it means you got *nothing* out of the whole thread--in which case that's a reading comprehension issue on your part.

Or, it means you failed to make your own point. You, like many of the me vs. everyone people, always seem to start from the basis that your opinion is 100% correct word from god, and that anyone who argues against you is just simply too stupid to understand it. You dont even entertain the idea that you could possibly be wrong in any way.

 

[metachronism]

Or, it means you failed to make your own point. You, like many of the me vs. everyone people, always seem to start from the basis that your opinion is 100% correct word from god, and that anyone who argues against you is just simply too stupid to understand it. You dont even entertain the idea that you could possibly be wrong in any way.

And in every opportunity people have been given to find contradictions in what I've said, they haven't come up with any. Are you going to find some for me?

It's one thing to get pissed off at me because I'm not all friendly to people who brazenly say stupid shit. It's another to claim I'm incorrect because you don't like the way I said it.

 

[Uzor]

And in every opportunity people have been given to find contradictions in what I've said, they haven't come up with any. Are you going to find some for me?

It's one thing to get pissed off at me because I'm not all friendly to people who brazenly say stupid shit. It's another to claim I'm incorrect because you don't like the way I said it.

I'm not pissed at you. I just find you hillarious trying to prove a point you don't have. That's why you keep saying stupid shit. You're not incorrect because we don't like the way you say it, you're incorrect because you are.