Quetzalcoatl, my 2 cents!

[Ji the Great]

This is not a rant it’s just an eye opener,
It is very obvious that only one NA LS kills Wyrms consistently on our server, anyone ever ask themselves why? The reason: NA LSs on our server never grow strong enough, mainly due to the following:

Greed: We all have been in or witnessed many examples of this within LSs on our server. It is the fault of both Ldrs and members, mostly Ldrs in my opinion; I think the mentality of many NAs is “I want to be the first to do/have [agenda/item here]”, this mentality completely disregards strengthening the LS and puts an emphasis on individuality. An example of this is Relic weapons, if everyone in a In-house/Outside Dynamis LS is trying to upgrade their weapon at the same time it will take forever to see one NA relic (Congrats Kisada btw)

Loyalty: Most NAs just don’t have it; they are not willing to stick around and help develop a shell. Players would rather leave and go to an established shell with a large wait line on items, the end result of that scenario is bitterness (70% of the time) and in the long run that person will become disgruntle and opt to form their own LS.

The FFXI linkshell model could be improved, but the bottom line is if things are not fair members will leave and when they leave, your shell is down one member… sure you can recruit and train someone new, but more will leave. This process stagnates your shell’s evolution and eventually diminishes all hope and faith, making the experience in your LS mundane and lifeless. This cycle will continue until things change, people will keep getting burnt and eventually leaving.

Thanks for reading; hopefully this sheds some light on our server’s imbalance
My apologies for the rant (I didn’t mean to I swear >.<)

 

[Blazeoffury]

I've been saying this for 2 years heh

 

[Elemmire]

I've known this, said it, and seen it not changing. I don't expect it to change anytime soon. There's a reason so many people wanna leave this server to another.

 

[Firestreak]

Basically the issue is this-

People are self serving, and I believe this is true the same of weakest LS on the servers as well as the strongest.

If there are items you want in this game, I think most of us want to simply put their time in, earn the item and get the item.

Now the problem is...

For some items, especially big items and in newer shells, no one will have earned the item yet completely. For example, any sky LS's first Osode. One person may deserve it the most, but there is no way they earned it completely.

So there will be people getting items they haven't earned yet. And then there are people who function to get these items and then leave, move onto another shell, try and get another quick item, leave, ect.

The biggest reason for this?

You see two members who want to join your shell.

1 worked his ass off, but his old shell disbanded and he didn't get his sky gear yet.

Another got Osode and tossed their shell.


Well if you want a good and loyal member, you'll dive for the first guy.

If you want a Ninja you don't need to get an Osode for, you'll get number 2.

Most shells prefer 2 on this server.

Hence we are infested with people who LS hop, or simply want great items from endgame shells to quit the game with.

So what happens is shells get into a period of intensive accomplishment, geting many members their items. Then a good share of those members leave, making the shell unable to operate without recruitment.

So now instead of building up and doing greater and greater things, the people who left from different shells form up and make new shells, that are destined to fail because lack of loyalty from the members and because it's based on conveiniance.

Then the old shell has a problem.

Well if you're saying to yourself, "I've been here 4 months farming sky and haven't gotten my Osode" and now your shell can't farm sky, you are going to start to panic. This panic cuases a chain reaction. This causes greed. You are willing to be patient on if you get the item next or that other guy if the shell is operating smoothly. If it's shrinkng and people are leaving, letting someone else get the next W Legs may seem not so smart. It means if the shell pops you're back in sky starting over. So then there's arguing that goes on, which makes it worse, because nobody wants to hear people arguing with each other over the linkshell.

If you've gotten your gear and are staying, you will start to get pissed off watching people join, you get them gear, and then they leave. You have what you want, based on sky, so you are helping to build the shell, and they are taking advantage of the shell and leaving. Then they are working against you, in other shells.

Now as a result of this... people will start to feel deep resentments for other shells.

"I hate that shell that has that guy, who took our Osode and fucked us over."

You don't really hate the shell, you had 1 guy who is in it.

And it's the shell's fault, because they took the guy who took gear and ran not the guy who still needed gear and is loyal.


If there is a person who is decked out in endgame gear, and they want to join you... inquire about their past. They were either in a linkshell that broke or they skipped out on the bill.

Problem is very few linkshells at this point can afford to be judgemental.

Since there are too many endgame linkshell and too few people to populate them. However linkshells can't merge together since so many contain the rogues who skip from LS to LS making enemies as a result. That being said there is no clear solution except drastic members that require cooperation no one could possibly make due to great tension in the linkshells already caused by this.

If every linkshell has a base of half loyal members and half people who seem to be "guests" then if all the loyal people refused to join with disloyal people, the loyal people could then form up new linkshells with a base strong enough to operate without any of the guests. The problem is no one is willing to do such drastic things.

The thing is we are no different than any other server, and for every linkshell this is somewhat true. The difference is at the top all the people want to join you so that you can try to carefully pick your members to not get a disloyal. But these people are likes snakes in the grass you don't know. Every linkshell has at some point hit a point they lost many members suddenly and they all leave and join another shell - then instead of people they worked hard to gear up they are enemies working against you. This is very disheartening to older members who have what they want and work for nothing except loyalty.

The problem with Quetzelcoatl is that just about anyone makes a linkshell, leaders don't communicate and as such it has gotten out of hand and in all honesty there is no solution.

We respect the guy with E Body, not the guy who camped every day getting him it. We respect based on flashy gear not skill and dedication.

It's no wonder so many people are driven to buy gil. Nobody says "Wow you're good at making gil," they comment on how nice your gear is. They call you greedy and get angry if your method of gilmaking in some way hurts them.

Even now, there's always someone who wants help. If I help some guy with a CoP mission, I can't merit. The guy gets sea, I don't get my merits. Then the guy disappears, and somebody else takes his place and wants help. The guy who got sea cause I helped him as far as the community is concerned "gained value". Me by not meriting keeps the same value. 24/7 in this game, someone will always want help with something, and from you. To even function you need to ignore people asking for help. Especially if you have many useful jobs that seem to be "needed" for everything.

It gets tiring... I almost think...

Just to join endgame you should...

Already have every job you intend to level finished and fully merited. Have everything accomplished you can without an endgame LS. Have everyone agree this is the only linkshell they'll ever join until it breaks,

If there was a linkshell like that, everyone could just do activities all day long, everyone could be asked to do nothing except linkshell activities while they're on and it would be hugely efficient.

But with so many linkshells and everyone grabbing at members like a game of hungry hungry hippo, can't be picky like that.

Eventually, when everyone has all their jobs leveled, their shit merited and their sky gear from wherever they end up getting it...

Maybe then people will start trying to form up with loyal people only cause enough of them will be able to function together and have basic endgame gear.

Also loyal people are harder to get to team up because they don't just leave their LS to form a new one, their LS's have to break up in order for them to join others.

Don't know, that's my assessment based on my own experiences, what I know of other linkshells, what I've seen, how I've seen the population move and how it appears linkshells function different on more accomplished servers.

 

[Peregrine]

Quetza NA was stunted by a shortstick draw of immature first-to-endgame NA'ers who didn't and still don't have it together. Set it up poorly. Set it up to fail all along, and the weakness gets perpetuated. The founders of endgame quetza were/still are/now have no choice to be terrible at it. It happens.

 

[CubsWoo]

To me, endgame is flawed. You do the same endgame activities to improve your character's gear to... do more endgame activities. Run Dynamis to get AF2 so you can get 5 more 1coins next run. Pop Kirin so you can kill Kirin faster. And if you're not doing that, you're using it to merit (to make meripo parties better) or you're sitting in Jeuno with your Osode and 3 king drops.

There'd be a lot more incentive to be in an endgame shell if the benefits of endgame gear didn't all but vanish if you want to do anything other than endgame.

 

[GC]

Willpower man. That's all the is to it. biggest thing is that ppl will always come and go, and there will always be ppl who are selfish and self serving. Every shell, even Kaizen itself, wil have that. Big thing is that ppl always look at the wrong side of things. There are those who really do want to be there and are dedicated to helping the shell however it is necessary. Sadly ppl make the folly of recruiting more and more ppl in the shell to the points they're nearing 70+ members, and then at that point it becomes terribly hard to manage.

The best way of remedying a situation such as this is not to just recruit new members, although yes at some points ppl will walk out and leave and then we lack the number to continue. Best way to fix this is to get those dedicated ppl and to lvl multiple jobs, always being in a place and position that no matter what you're doing you'll be prepared at it.

The biggest thing is ppl's dedication, and willpower to lvl these jobs. Obviously ppl didn't get into the game in order to play jobs they didn't wanna play, but sometimes you just hafta bite the bullet. If you were to take a look at Kaizen, most all of their member have more than one job lvled, and many of times it's the same ppl out there fighting the same thing day in day out.
And yet they don't hafta recruit all these members.

Biggest thing in a endgame ls is trust, and if you can trust a member to do something you know you can rely on him/her to do anything. Trust Dedication and Motivation really is what ppl need in order to make a sucessful ls. without even one of them it'll always be a halfassed shell who can barely make end's meet

 

[Tymon]

Example 1: OH from my perspective(I'm probably wrong, I'm not a member) started in early to mid 2005. It's middle 2006 now, and there's probably 5 of their over 50 original members left in the shell now. Again, I can't prove this, but it's a good even hypothetical example of what happens.

Example 2: BG(bluegartr) on Bahamut started in middle 2004 with about 85 members. Mid 2006 again now, they have..87 or so members, and around 1-2 EVER, left. The only leaves they've had that I know of are of people that quit the game. One of the top 5 most sucessful NA LS on any server. Loyalty is 99.9% of the problem.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Example 1: OH from my perspective(I'm probably wrong, I'm not a member) started in early to mid 2005. It's middle 2006 now, and there's probably 5 of their over 50 original members left in the shell now. Again, I can't prove this, but it's a good even hypothetical example of what happens.

Example 2: BG(bluegartr) on Bahamut started in middle 2004 with about 85 members. Mid 2006 again now, they have..87 or so members, and around 1-2 EVER, left. The only leaves they've had that I know of are of people that quit the game. One of the top 5 most sucessful NA LS on any server. Loyalty is 99.9% of the problem.

Agreed. Loyalty is a rare trait to find. If you find a loyal person, keep them!

 

[decidence]

It all comes down to leadership imo. If your leaders aren't hardcore and motivated to drive the LS then people will leave. If leaders do not have the correct rules and policies in place then people will slack off and get away away with it, and when people get away with it then other members will think it's alright as well, and this is a very hard downward cycle to get out of.

Leaders need to always be striving to make the LS better and always looking to take the next step or if your already as high as you can go, continuing to take that step better each time, there is always room for improvement.

 

[Negorissimo]

No person under 30 years can be a good leader. Because they lack the experience and patience to run a group. That's almost 98% of the users in Quetzalcoatl. Kids can't lead kids.

Kids want everything and when they can't get it they throw a tantrum...

Don't forget that this is a game an it's played by a high % of kids/young ppl. To all those young leaders, take this counsel from a player that is a parent also:

Let the player develop sense of being optimistic. There is always another day to win instead of feeling 'I Lost' Give your own example and recollect your own n00b days. Narrate a few of your ups n downs, twists n turns and talk to the player, how you faced odd situations and embarrassments.

Failure is never final, success is never ending - Build spirit in the player and teach him the first steps to face challenges in end-game. Defeat is only a challenge. Talk to them to build a positive sense of identity. Who I am? Why I failed? Is my attitude okay? And the realisation comes through when the player is helped to understand ownself, own weak points. He should be disciplined to know and act what is right - what is wrong behaviour. This self realisation makes the player a well balanced mind and disciplined in his behaviour during times of his frustration.

Make the player more tolerant. Those who learn to cope with bad times and its this time when values of tolerance is more necessary for them to divert their minds to shrug off the hatred. An emotional trauma needs much more care than a dropped Ridill. Treat him nice instead of being angry or saying harsh words. Words break the heart more, so let not the anxiety anxiousness add fuel to fire and keep the cool, calm n composed self to turn the situation normal. Time heals.

 

[CubsWoo]

I think it's unfair to blame the players who get bored and leave once they've got the items they want. I say blame the leaders who can't figure out ways to keep those members in the shell and happy once they've reached their goals.

 

[Firestreak]

I think it's unfair to blame the players who get bored and leave once they've got the items they want. I say blame the leaders who can't figure out ways to keep those members in the shell and happy once they've reached their goals.

Imagine I make a post... 18 optical hats, 1 saturday.

We're supposed to start early, take a couple 30 minute breaks maybe, and pop 18 hakutukus.

18 people sign up, it's a balanced, working alliance.

The first guy gets a hat, he's suddenly bored. This NM is much less exciting when there's no personal gain. Is it unfair to blame him if he decides to split?


Just to edit in: The resulting of guy 1 leaving, another person may join to take their place, and that's a 19th hate you have to get. I don't blame the person who promise 18 fights and does 18 fights because he's been in Den of Rancor forever and he's done what he agreed to and is sick of it. I blame that 1 guy for all of it. It's the right thing to do to get the replacements their hats too but the person to blamei f they don't get is the guy who left.

 

[CubsWoo]

I'd blame the person who's scheduling 18 Hakutaku fights for one day when it's completely unreasonable to expect people to spend close to 10 hours in Den of Rancor.

 

[K. Ishitar]

The sad thing about ffxi is that it is best to have face to face contact with people irl in order to get something done people have lives and its hard to keep in balance.

But yes a new NA ls model is definitely needed, JPs get along so well and effectively makes me tempted to buy a Kango(sp) keyboard

 

[Zoolander]

How about instead of telling others what they are doing wrong, you just worry about yourself? And how the hell do you even know what other LSs are doing, just because I'm not out camping a king my LS is behind? Most people don't advertise their accomplishments, so how do you know what I have and haven't done? And why is it your bussiness?

And take a look in the mirror, you know all those sky LSs that are popping up that people keep grumbling about? Yea.

 

[decidence]

SE's fault for not making repetitive events more interesting after obtaining your goal from them.

If mobs would act differently each time you fought them and forced the player to use skill rather then pre-planned strategies that will almost always work then people would feel like they are actually doing something different and new each time.

This is why people that like Action/FPS or any other game where you play versus human players get bored with this shit after they get their stuff because once their goal is completed its so repetitive. Where as in a FPS or Action Game where your playing HUMAN players there is a different result and different outcome to how the round is won or lost.

Integrate PvP into FFXI like it is in WoW and I think the game will retain a lot more end game players once they have achieved all the gear and goals they want.

 

[hellstorm]

How about instead of telling others what they are doing wrong, you just worry about yourself? And how the hell do you even know what other LSs are doing, just because I'm not out camping a king my LS is behind? Most people don't advertise their accomplishments, so how do you know what I have and haven't done? And why is it your bussiness?

And take a look in the mirror, you know all those sky LSs that are popping up that people keep grumbling about? Yea.

they are just trying bring light to the problem. No need to be hostile about it. You should know very well about what they speak, I know perse is not your first shell you been in, there alot of truth in what they say and the aditude of "see no evil, hear no evil" is half the problem.

 

[Negorissimo]

This whole server is screaming UNITY! It's time we deliver.

 

[Zoolander]

lol unify and do what? If people really wanted to camp kings, then they would. Most people, at least NAs on quetz, just don't want to commit to camping kings like they have to be. What exactly are these problems that we speak of? That NAs dont have enough ridills and E. Bodies? Since when is the game only about spending three hours everyday in a little zone with a waterfall and some flies, or some snowy area with a bunch of weak elementals and nothing to do but watch as the Bots win another claim?

You say we're behind in accomplishments, speak for yourself. I'm very proud of what I've managed to do and always strive to be the best.