I usually try not to complain when i'm in a party. And i'm so po'ed i had to come and bi@*h some. Tonight i was in a pt in Qufim and it started or really good. Party was made up as of this 21 war, 19 sam, 21 rdm, 21 blm, 22 drk, me 21whm. These 2 guys the war and sam would not give me a break they kept pulling and fighting even with only 48mp left and haveing rasp and i could not rest. At first i didn't complaine but then the both pull at the same time and i can only heal 1 and try to run to the other guy who died." Oh the whm didn't heal me" well duh how can i when your across the lake. Finally i got mad enough to tell them the rdm needs to quite meleeing and help back-up cure if they wanna continue like this. Well 2 fights later and no mp again they keep going, they start to fight the third i used what little mp i had and sat. Needless to say they were in yellow and red at fights end and i start freaking on them. I got the lame excuse it aggroed on them which wasn't possible because previous fight i was standing right beside it and no-one else was around it when i moved. so i think to myself to hell with it im out and tell the party this. Oh did that cause a problem Whaaa theres no other whm around, well i guess you should have listened to me. 2 of them begged me to stay till they leveled and i aggreed but would not heal anyone else but the tank and them 2 the rdm can start doing what he is suppose to do. Next fight they both level and instant disband. Boy did i get tells then but hey . I'm not ragging on anyone person in this pt but they had no orgination <--spelling and the rdn does not know what it is to be and rdm. Yes as a matter of fact i do my rdm is level 41 and sure i melee, when i'm solo. I also had 4 invites on my way out of Qufim too which i thought was funny. Anyways if your partying with a whm at early levels please ask them when the are ready, they are the ones who are going to keep you alive and dont treat them as some second hand job just because your a sam....never know what other jobs they may have and may not be as much of a noob as you think. Sorry for the long post. :lol:
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1. My eyeballs literally fell out of my head after the first 3 sentances....i have a migraine now, paragraphs are your pal.
2. Whitemages your level are all assholes until 41 and I hate them all until that level when they are humbled....im happy when one has a bad time for once, i wish i could feel for you, but i dont.
2. Whitemages your level are all assholes until 41 and I hate them all until that level when they are humbled....im happy when one has a bad time for once, i wish i could feel for you, but i dont.
I hate you too Vang. I really do. Especially since I took back the WHM oath. Just listen to yourself for a moment.
*All* WHMs suck?
Okay, maybe I suck?
Maybe I should stop bothering with debuffs when the RDM insists on meleeing and nuking.
Maybe I should stop casting Regen instead of Cure II in order to conserve MPs and stick to Cure Is more regularely.
Maybe I shouldn't take notice of when the PLD is poisoned and let his HP rot while he can't rest to regain MPs
Maybe I shouldn't cast bar- spells at all, they seem to be such a waste of MP and chaining potential, especially against goblins.
Maybe I shouldn't cure the PLD to full when he doesn't listen to me when I ask him to do some self-curing to help with hate management.
Maybe I shouldn't eat Goblin Chocolate, and heck, GIVE SOME TO MAGES WITHOUT FOODS! They don't deserve to know about sweets and pies.
Maybe I shouldn't carry scrolls with me and wait 'til I'm done leveling to go buy that Seer's set.
Oh yah, maybe I should just plain suck, because it's not worth the effort.
I agree though, the WHM in the OP who looks for all possible excuses to avoid any responsability. As a healer, as a puller, as a tank, or as a damage dealer, whatever job I play, I pull my fucking weight. And WHM is no exception for me. And if my party is slacking a bit, I pull even more weight, giving advice, hoping they listen to it. I've bought my Seers set in Jeuno while I was L24 because I made some research at what I'll need to carry with me to the Jungles.
Maybe the problem could be easily rectified by making WHM an advanced job, no? No n00b would be playing it until they at least reached L30, and then they'd have to do some crazy quest involving escorting some L10 NPCs safely from Bastok to Selbina. Maybe then they'd have enough game experience to pull off the damn job, huh?
*All* WHMs suck?
Okay, maybe I suck?
Maybe I should stop bothering with debuffs when the RDM insists on meleeing and nuking.
Maybe I should stop casting Regen instead of Cure II in order to conserve MPs and stick to Cure Is more regularely.
Maybe I shouldn't take notice of when the PLD is poisoned and let his HP rot while he can't rest to regain MPs
Maybe I shouldn't cast bar- spells at all, they seem to be such a waste of MP and chaining potential, especially against goblins.
Maybe I shouldn't cure the PLD to full when he doesn't listen to me when I ask him to do some self-curing to help with hate management.
Maybe I shouldn't eat Goblin Chocolate, and heck, GIVE SOME TO MAGES WITHOUT FOODS! They don't deserve to know about sweets and pies.
Maybe I shouldn't carry scrolls with me and wait 'til I'm done leveling to go buy that Seer's set.
Oh yah, maybe I should just plain suck, because it's not worth the effort.
I agree though, the WHM in the OP who looks for all possible excuses to avoid any responsability. As a healer, as a puller, as a tank, or as a damage dealer, whatever job I play, I pull my fucking weight. And WHM is no exception for me. And if my party is slacking a bit, I pull even more weight, giving advice, hoping they listen to it. I've bought my Seers set in Jeuno while I was L24 because I made some research at what I'll need to carry with me to the Jungles.
Maybe the problem could be easily rectified by making WHM an advanced job, no? No n00b would be playing it until they at least reached L30, and then they'd have to do some crazy quest involving escorting some L10 NPCs safely from Bastok to Selbina. Maybe then they'd have enough game experience to pull off the damn job, huh?
FlaruWuru said:
Stop putting words in my mouth you fucking pantywaist....I said I hate all whm Pre-41...I do, you guys are ALWAYS the last to join the party and the first to leave. 95% of your gear is shit, and your subjobs are underleveled because your "the whm".
I bet damn near every melee (especially DRKS and MNKS who work their fucking asses off to get an invite and wait for hours on end) agree too. I absolutely love it when level 41 comes around.
I love whm when they wake up and realize they aint shit anymore and get their asses in gear, but pre 41? Nope. Sorry about ya....I have plenty of whm friends and many whm agree....its the way it goes.
Deal with it.
vang said:
What words did I put in your mouth? Oh, it's because I forgot to paraphrase the pre-41 part? Well sooooo-orrry! Look at my profile! I AM PRE-41! And I mostly likely to stay pre-41, as I'm leveling WHM for BRD, SMN, but mostly BST. But even then it's no excuse for me to botch my duty.
All that stuff I said I did was done tonight. I had to pull an awful of weight because what was on paper didn't deliver. I've had a similar setup last Saturday, and worked wonders because the RDM was debuffing, the other WHM was also using Regen, and the DRGs had the right gear. Tonight? WHM-WHM-RDM-PLD-WAR-WAR.
The WAR with the scythe insisted on tanking, but thankfully I convinced him otherwise by mentioning that the other two melees had shields to parry, as I suggested the PLD to take over. He didn't. Heck, during a fight, he fancied healing me because I was slept, but ended up disengaging the mob to cast his spell. I told him about the wonders of <stpc>. He now uses it. The other WHM asked me why I ate chocolate? I offered him 3 pieces, and told him about its +MP Regen effect. The RDM insisted on being a nuker. He left 20 minutes after the party got formed, never had a chance to tell him about the wonders of debuffing after the first 3 fights.
Towards the end of the party, the PLD finally took on my earlier advice of self-curing when the puller got ambitious and pulled a goblin for "revenge's sake". Sadly, he probably didn't hear the part about helping with hate management. I didn't bother telling the WAR with the scythe about the better skill rating in Axe and Great Axe. He's probably closing to L30 to switch jobs, and if he bought an Axe, he most likely wouldn't skill up with it, thus truly gimping any party he'd join until he reached his goal. I also noticed the other WHM casting some buff spells. Nice initiative, but I had already casted a Protectra II 10 minutes ago.
All in all, I saw those people at least willing to learn, so that night wasn't an entire waste of time. I admit, if I was on my first stride through the game, I most likely would have sucked as much as the WHM standing next to me in that PT. I even offered to stay longer so that the WAR who just pinged would get a buffer, but the puller was leaving too, and they had another WHM, so I had no remorse leaving at that point. Always better replacing two people at once than have them leave 10 minutes apart.
I see how WHMs get to be sub-standard. It's a basic job with quick invites at lower levels, providing an easy ride up to L30. It's also the last person to die in a party if they're lousy. It's obviously the last person to join a PT because of the simple mathematics of ratios. There are plenty of damage dealers, ample classes that can tank with two specialized, and three that can heal. But try asking a SMN or RDM to be main healer.
I refuse to be set in the same boat as those newbies who, for a certain part, got a taste of WHM and don't know any better about the other classes. My first job to L30 was THF, so invites weren't always plentiful, and I admit, I only partied twice as a WHM up to L23, as I played duo with a BLM friend of mine. I did have apprehension when I went to Qufim last week to take back on those healing duties. Thanks to the experience I got from playing many other jobs, with a handful up to L25, I made it more than an average alright. I take great pride in being of service to those other 5 people, and I do my best to keep the party alive, and not by casting Cure and Cure II like they were the only spells I know.
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vang said:
Heh, from the sound of your post...you'd be one of those assholes if you were a WHM.
I guess he wrote that just to make as many people angry as possible (which is lame in my book), he doesn't actually think that way.
Or does he?
vang said:
I don't know about you, but 95% of the new players don't have good equipment, be it melees or mages, and half of them have underleveled sub. They only have good gear on higher levels or their 2nd/3rd job. What a clueless statement you made there.
vang said:
lol why would a WHM want to be the 1st to leave? He doesn't like exp? He wants to make the party suffer? lol when they're invited do they ask the leader "Am I the 6th member? I'm not joining if I'm not the 6th member".
Your statement applies to any job out there. I guess it's just your personal experiences with WHMs and you know you can't make a generalizations from one person's experience. I just leveled WAR from 10 to 31, in all of my parties the WHMs stayed until the party disbanded.
Another cluecless statement.
No, im telling you this and I dont give a rat's cock who i piss off, Im sure the masses are cheering me on with this rant...I hate WHM pre-41....they are scum of Vandy, and a complete waste of time 90% of the time. This is truth I speak, do not deny it.
Oh and yes Flaru don't fucking act like what you said was NOT a big deal....THERES A BIIIG DIFFERENCE from me saying WHM pre-41 are idiots to you saying that I hate ALL whm which is simply not true...
Oh and yes Flaru don't fucking act like what you said was NOT a big deal....THERES A BIIIG DIFFERENCE from me saying WHM pre-41 are idiots to you saying that I hate ALL whm which is simply not true...
FlaruWuru said:
That flew right over your head, didn't you?
vang said:
I hope this time, you'll be happy I used the quotes as "proof" I read your post.
I find odd though that you did say "complete waste of time 90% of the time". What's up with the other 10%? Are they one step lower, thus just a big waste of time?
If you're not happy next time you level a job in the Dunes or the Maze or wherever, get a RDM or a SMN to be main healer. I'm sure you'll be doing a favor to Vana'diel by leaving a WHM seeking. I'm left to wonder if you'd be doing a favor to your party though by having a player forced in a role they probably didn't enlist for. You'll have better luck with SMN I'm sure, as they did get to L30 at least once.
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Vang your not pissing many people off, your just showing what a complete waste of time you are, you take the game to seriously and you are obviously jealous of the pre 41 whm cause you aren't as desired as they are. Grow up and get a clue.
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Berserk said:
Sorry to say, Vang does have a point here. A whm, especially pre-30, just does no value a party as much as melee. A melee has to wait around for a Whm for a party to get started. A whm can just zone into an area and BOOM party invite. For this reason, a whm just doesnt value the party time as much as most melee. Oh and Btw, I have leveled whm, so Im not completely talking out my ass.
For the original poster. From what I gleaned from that great blob of text, I dont blame you at all for leaving.
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Berserk
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@alanon:
Yup, I agree that WHMs have it way easier than other jobs pre-30. They get invites as soon as they log on even without flag up. And pre-30 they don't value the party as much as other jobs do. But that was not Vang's point. He just said outright that "WHM comes last, leaves first" with that word "always" in cap, which implies that WHMs love to do that.
On a side note, I (and I assume many others, too) only make a party if there is a WHM seeking. I would invite that WHM first, and he has to wait while I fill up the other slots. I don't think its wise to invite 4 people then wait for a WHM to show up.
Yup, I agree that WHMs have it way easier than other jobs pre-30. They get invites as soon as they log on even without flag up. And pre-30 they don't value the party as much as other jobs do. But that was not Vang's point. He just said outright that "WHM comes last, leaves first" with that word "always" in cap, which implies that WHMs love to do that.
On a side note, I (and I assume many others, too) only make a party if there is a WHM seeking. I would invite that WHM first, and he has to wait while I fill up the other slots. I don't think its wise to invite 4 people then wait for a WHM to show up.
You can hate all pre-41 whm's you want. Too bad we're kind of a necessity in most pts (I say most because you can build a pt without a whm, but even then it's usually with people who are subbing it)
WHM is my sub job and something I enjoy doing for a break from my BLM.
Heh. And I don't suck.
I'll remember if I run by you and you need a cure not to give you one because you don't want anything to do with WHMs.
Oh yeah and when I lvl my WHM i usually form my own pts....so it's not possible for me to be the last one to join.
WHM is my sub job and something I enjoy doing for a break from my BLM.
Heh. And I don't suck.
I'll remember if I run by you and you need a cure not to give you one because you don't want anything to do with WHMs.Oh yeah and when I lvl my WHM i usually form my own pts....so it's not possible for me to be the last one to join.
Berserk said:
Sadly, there are a lot of cocky WHMs pre-advanced jobs who will just decline that, waiting for a 5-player party to invite them then get the show on the road.
I did decline one such request once, because it came from an under-leveled blind invite with only me and him in our level range seeking in Kazham. Was I being an asshole? I doubt it. When he asked me why I declined, I explained the reasons, save for the underleveled sub. He understood. He sent me a tell later saying he found some other people who were joining, but had to travel from a base city to Kazham via Airship. I accepted then. Can't say no to Rank 5s, even if it involves waiting a bit.
95% of your gear is shit, and your subjobs are underleveled because your "the whm".
Look i didn't start this thread to start an argument about whm's but since you opened it up to be that i am more than happy to set you fuckin straight Vang.
Oh i am so very sorry i gave you a migraine from reading my post. Didn't know i was holding a gun to your head forceing you to read it. :!:
My gear is far from shit as i do spend alot of time researching each and every job i play and upgrade as soon as possible. No i do not carry scrolls or armour to upgrade as soon as i level. My subs being a BLM is level 20 so i am far from underleveled. Get your shit right before you open your mouth. I have enough experience playing main healer with my rdm to know how to play a whm. What really pisses me off is rdm's who melee, don't enfebble or back up heal. Goodluck to him finding a decent party after Qufim Island.
By the way Vang what do you play? I would love to be the healer in your party since i'm so fucking worthless, i'd like to see how long you'll stay alive pre-41.....If you don't let your whm rest how the fuck are you going to stay alive? No i do not think i am all that because i'm playing whm but as in every job you need to have consideration for the other players if the party is to work properly. I refuse to heal myself while in a party and always the first to die, i try to make sure everyone is at full HP before we begin a battle. But without being able to rest you make this much harder for me to keep you alive. But when you do die the whm is to blame right away. I have no plans on keeping whm as a main player and i agree i get alot of invites as i do with my rdm which i get more invites with. But i do take the time to level my subs and am currently working on melee jobs also.
Melee's who have not played a whm have no business even telling us how to do our jobs. Play it a few times and learn the backround and what it takes to be a good whm before you criticize us. I am far from being an asshole in the party but if you expect me to keep you healed pull after pull with no rest, then don't bitch when you die either.
And as i said in my original post don't talk down to someone just because they are playing a low level and YOU think there a NOOB!! You don't know what other level jobs they have or what kind of experience they have in partys and researching their classes.
Look i didn't start this thread to start an argument about whm's but since you opened it up to be that i am more than happy to set you fuckin straight Vang.
Oh i am so very sorry i gave you a migraine from reading my post. Didn't know i was holding a gun to your head forceing you to read it. :!:
My gear is far from shit as i do spend alot of time researching each and every job i play and upgrade as soon as possible. No i do not carry scrolls or armour to upgrade as soon as i level. My subs being a BLM is level 20 so i am far from underleveled. Get your shit right before you open your mouth. I have enough experience playing main healer with my rdm to know how to play a whm. What really pisses me off is rdm's who melee, don't enfebble or back up heal. Goodluck to him finding a decent party after Qufim Island.
By the way Vang what do you play? I would love to be the healer in your party since i'm so fucking worthless, i'd like to see how long you'll stay alive pre-41.....If you don't let your whm rest how the fuck are you going to stay alive? No i do not think i am all that because i'm playing whm but as in every job you need to have consideration for the other players if the party is to work properly. I refuse to heal myself while in a party and always the first to die, i try to make sure everyone is at full HP before we begin a battle. But without being able to rest you make this much harder for me to keep you alive. But when you do die the whm is to blame right away. I have no plans on keeping whm as a main player and i agree i get alot of invites as i do with my rdm which i get more invites with. But i do take the time to level my subs and am currently working on melee jobs also.
Melee's who have not played a whm have no business even telling us how to do our jobs. Play it a few times and learn the backround and what it takes to be a good whm before you criticize us. I am far from being an asshole in the party but if you expect me to keep you healed pull after pull with no rest, then don't bitch when you die either.
And as i said in my original post don't talk down to someone just because they are playing a low level and YOU think there a NOOB!! You don't know what other level jobs they have or what kind of experience they have in partys and researching their classes.
Summerbreeze said:Heh. And I don't suck.
/Cheers Summerbreeze
Hmmm maybe you'll be lieing dead somewhere need a raise /Cry to bad to sad.
Not thats i would do that shit i'd even get off the choco but not for any ignorant, arrogant stupid assholes. :twisted:
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I could agree if the statement was "Most whms get a free ride and don't put in desired effort when it's their first job" but I disagree with the word "all" in the original statement. If the statement was true that would mine every single whm I've partied with would've been crap pre 41, and that's clearly not true from experiences. I've been playing for over a year and have seen a good share of whms of excellent,good,average,bad, and horrible, it also helps I've leveled I think 7 jobs to or past the jungles for experience with WHMs around 30, including whm itself. Oh and by excellent I mean things I deem not needed but just great to have. With all HQ mp equips and astrals. By horrible, I'm refering to whms, especially elvaan and galka with ZERO mp+ equipment, and lacking spells such as regen and cure III by the jungle. Also having lvl 1-12 armor by 30, or in one case direwolf told about, taylorw a 50+ whm with 1-12 equips.
I do also agree that playing any higher level job or a melee as one's main or one the side will change that persons views about the value of a party, in a positive way.
Some people set too high of standards though expecting things like astrals pre 30, or LL boots pre 30 on their first job. If I see some minor things such as silver hairpin, mnd rings, an up to date wand or staff for whm(I'm expect wand for the int+ on a blm), some basic mp earrings, friar rope, and up to date armor, I'll have nothing to complain about. For someone around 20, I'd be content with half those things for a whm in my party, unless they were elvaan or galka, since they'll absolutely 'need' everything.
And too the original poster, I would've been mad too, but I would've stayed and if one died eventually from them running me down, point made. If everyone played properly it would've been good xp assuming the melee had decent equips. Worms are different since you can't camp and pull but must hunt around, however they're easier kills.
If the redmage would've adjusted to fit his role you could've avoided party downtime all together. Since if there is no downtime from pulls against worms, it's good to have 2 people that can heal dependablely(in your case you and the rdm) and switch off so someone is always ready to go. If there is 'no' rest from the lack of pulling downtime and they attack worms nonstop, any whm is bound to run dry eventually.
I do regeret though all whms don't use a brass and/or silver hairpin though, spend about 1-2k and you get 15mp, great for the gil with a noticable effect. Stop buying those worthless robes that prevent head equips, they're ugly anyway.
I do also agree that playing any higher level job or a melee as one's main or one the side will change that persons views about the value of a party, in a positive way.
Some people set too high of standards though expecting things like astrals pre 30, or LL boots pre 30 on their first job. If I see some minor things such as silver hairpin, mnd rings, an up to date wand or staff for whm(I'm expect wand for the int+ on a blm), some basic mp earrings, friar rope, and up to date armor, I'll have nothing to complain about. For someone around 20, I'd be content with half those things for a whm in my party, unless they were elvaan or galka, since they'll absolutely 'need' everything.
And too the original poster, I would've been mad too, but I would've stayed and if one died eventually from them running me down, point made. If everyone played properly it would've been good xp assuming the melee had decent equips. Worms are different since you can't camp and pull but must hunt around, however they're easier kills.
If the redmage would've adjusted to fit his role you could've avoided party downtime all together. Since if there is no downtime from pulls against worms, it's good to have 2 people that can heal dependablely(in your case you and the rdm) and switch off so someone is always ready to go. If there is 'no' rest from the lack of pulling downtime and they attack worms nonstop, any whm is bound to run dry eventually.
I do regeret though all whms don't use a brass and/or silver hairpin though, spend about 1-2k and you get 15mp, great for the gil with a noticable effect. Stop buying those worthless robes that prevent head equips, they're ugly anyway.
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I forgot, i'd also like to add I base alot of my judgement upon one paying attention and of selected spells. If no regen is applied to other party members, no barfira against gobs, no barwatera against crabs and pugs, no enfeebles if no redmage, or no barsleepra against mandies, I'm going to question this person. If they listen all is well from constructive critism.
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I hate people that make stupid ass blanket statements about any group of people...Sorry Vang...but you just sound ignorant when you talk like that. I am lucky enough to be in a static party with my whm...but I'm pretty damn sure that if i weren't ...i'd do the same things there that i've done as a blm and as a tank with other jobs...and that is to do whatever it takes to keep my party alive and happy. I have been in a LOT of parties where the whm was the only one to die to save the rest of the party...or where they stayed longer than they'd planned to help another party member or two level.
I haven't partied with you...so I'm not going to assume anything. But in MY personal experiences when I've shown that i'm willing to give 110% the whm and other party members for that matter do the same for me...there are of course exceptions.
I haven't partied with you...so I'm not going to assume anything. But in MY personal experiences when I've shown that i'm willing to give 110% the whm and other party members for that matter do the same for me...there are of course exceptions.
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Meant to add to the original poster that the early levels of Qufim were my least favorite as a whm also. When you're at the pond killing worms and everyone is running every which way to grab one it can get frustrating and intense...lol
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