Ranger Invites... non-existant?!

[meeze]

Once you've gotten used to it, I fail to see how it actually makes much of a difference.

we know skaw...hellstorm said it rng was too easy before nerf, veresko said as if mnk and war were difficult. the rng job still isnt' hard, and no one here is saying it is, but you are arguing like someone did lol.

 

[Sharpe]

no job in this game is difficult to play. It's just an excuse people make up so they can think they can have a shred of "skill."

Quoted for truth.

 

[Lavi]

I do just fine standing a good distance behind the tank with my ebow.

I WS > Mob turns and faces me > Tank Turns Around > THF SATA > WS on tank.

Not hard really. If it doesn't turn, THF can still split SA and TA.

Not rocket science, just common sense.

I do split TA and SA when I need to. I have macros right next to each other ready to hit either one in case the mob doesn't turn, it's very common that a mob doesn't turn regardless of the job, but I prefer having SA land just for the extra damage added to the SC. Now, I've never seen a RNG stand directly behind the mob. Normally in my experience, they are far enough to make the mob move and in some cases as far as the mages. In either case, it's too far and if the mob does turn which I prefer happens, then I lose TP or cannot close the SC. I need time to use SA+TA and WS, at least 2 seconds if not more, and thats more than enough time for it to run away to the ranger.

 

[Dowzer]

I do split TA and SA when I need to. I have macros right next to each other ready to hit either one in case the mob doesn't turn, it's very common that a mob doesn't turn regardless of the job, but I prefer having SA land just for the extra damage added to the SC. Now, I've never seen a RNG stand directly behind the mob. Normally in my experience, they are far enough to make the mob move and in some cases as far as the mages. In either case, it's too far and if the mob does turn which I prefer happens, then I lose TP or cannot close the SC. I need time to use SA+TA and WS, at least 2 seconds if not more, and thats more than enough time for it to run away to the ranger.

Not to rain on your parade, but that's just poor planning by the Ranger. This is especially annoying in burn parties. It should be common knowledge, if you're not going to deal the finishing blow with Slugwinder/Barrage from a distance - don't do it. If you're going to use them early in the fight, stand close. Sucks when you lose TP when a RNG wants to stand far away for Arching Arrow, it's happened to me on DRK.

A good Ranger will know when to let loose. I'm still learning, but my mistakes are now far inbetween and each one still serves a lesson.

Hmmm. This is me...This is me standing considerably close to the mob. Hey look, the damage is still considerably high.

 

[hellstorm]

Yes cause a MNK or WAR really has to "work" after pressing Attack and wait for 100TP to press WS macro. And don't mention Utsu macros, that's just too much work.... /sarcasm off.

Edit: Sorry that was replied to, should have kept reading.

when the ranger nerf happened, it didn't matter what food or gear you used. If you stood in dmg sweetspot, your acc sucked. if you stood in acc sweetspot, you dmg sucked. It didn't matter what level the mobs were either.

this what I mean by work. Now it matter what gear you wear and what food you use. Just like it matter what a war wears. Yes there not the omg king of kirin any more, but no job really is.

 

[SoD]

Again, THF+RNG combo is largely non-existant now. Back before the nerf, it was one of if not the most common party setups available. There are and will always be tons of THFs seeking at any time and with everyone wanting to be a top DD, RNGs were plentiful. The problem now is that there is no suitable way to hold a mob in a stationary position for a THF to get a SATA off. Even if you had a BLM use stun, it still complicates things. For starters, timing stun perfectly is difficult. I don't doubt the BLM can stun before the mob moves too far, but if the BLM goes to early, it'll still be staring at the tank and can mess with SA. Then there always is the problem of stun interfering with casting the MB. Casting back-to-back spells slows down reaction times and messes with the MB window of opportunity especially on longer casts like AM and Tier IV.

Forcing a ranger to stand back a distance in my opinion forces them to limit their damage more than they should have to. Any other physical DD can cross that hate barrier between just enough and too much for a small amount of time without causing detrimental problems to the party. A RNG does it, the mob will move causing problems so they are almost forced to never cross that threshold. It's not the fault of the ranger in any way, it's SE's fault by nerfing them into that system.

You have DRKs that can stun also, and it's not hard to time it. You see the RNG WS animation go off you hit your stun macro. Wow so much planning is involved with that one. It's even easier than triing to stun an enemy move because you should know it's coming, unless you just like to autopilot experianc parties.
Do you even know what a "Ranger" is? They attack from...a distance. You don't have archers on your front lines, that's a fact you can even look it up.
The problem with people is that there is such a lolrampage mentality that they forgot where the real DD is. How about DRK/WARs doing 1064 Cross Reapers and closing out Darkness for 600+ damage off of a NIN tanks ws at 67 DRK. Or a Guilliotine for the same amount of damage. Or Sharkbites that cause 1600 damage and make Light so beautiful.
So get out of your planning a party is wrong mentality and realize that just because something was changed, not even for the worse, that all of a sudden it can't be done. Or don't, but us good players will still do it.

 

[Motoguzzi]

I see another possible issue (possibly part of the root issue in this thread)

People dont seem to want to coordinate a fighting team in xp parties anymore. I saw more willingness to maintain a Chain 4 or 5 and try for skillchains with MB when I was leveling WAR a year ago... in the jungle... now, people seem to want to hit 75 .. right now, and skip the part where they mature in the Job class they have chosen to level.

I have been in parties (rarely) in which .. even at my low level, we have worked together using the limits of our abilities and run a very smooth operation. It takes effort tho.

 

[Veresko]

this what I mean by work. Now it matter what gear you wear and what food you use. Just like it matter what a war wears. Yes there not the omg king of kirin any more, but no job really is.

I still fail to see how that makes it "more work" for ranger or any other DD (Yes I didn't mean to say making a ranged attack macro was hard, I was just pointing out no DD job is "hard work", just good finger timing and common sense).

Using food takes 3 steps (open inventory, select food, confirm). Selecting the gear you wear is hardly "work". If you mean by that the farming/crafting needed to get the gils for all that, I can assure you pre-nerf a ranger still had to do all those. Not only for food and gear but for ammo and nin tools. I've never seen a GOOD ranger, pre-nerf, using crappy gear and no food simply because "he was teh shit". Even back then, using food and having appropriate gear improved your performance. It's not like a ranger could just stare at a mob and it would have a heart attack on the spot.

My point is, the nerf didn't bring the amount of work for a ranger to where the other DDs are and it never was lower or higher. It just changed the way you played, nothing more (and reduced the damage). Playing ranger is not hard work, just like any other DDs.

As for pacing out, I've seen darks, war, drgs, sams, etc that could take hate in an instant. I've also seen some that couldn't no matter how hard they tried. Ranger is the same. Pre-nerf a bad ranger wouldn't take hate regularly, a good would. Same thing now. A good ranger will not WS asap when he hits 100 tp. He'll wait till he knows the WS will kill the mob or close to it. And not just for piercing mobs. 1300-1400 Slug Shot with Obow on Trolls last time I partied there DID take hate every single time I didn't kill it and I had a darn good nin (unless Trolls are weak to piercing which I am unaware of).

To get back on the invite topic, I repeat, having a good ranger in your party will speed up things, even with the occasional running around. Your ranger will make your party kil the mobs faster, for better chains. They problem doesn't lie in the nerf SE did, it lies in the new areas they put in the game. ToAU made everyone ultra-lazy. No more SCs, no more MBs, no more macros, just mind-numbing mob wacking and if it moves out of range, meaning you have to pick up your controller again, someone's gonna get an earful (ok might have exagerated a bit... not really tho). If a melee loose TP but the mob still dies from Slug Shot, rather then focusing on the next mob and keep chain now you get a "OMG I lost TP my parser's result will be all screwed up asshole".

I'm with Moto, I remember my very first time in the jungle as a 27 WAR, I had a party where we took 5 minutes before exping not only to setup a regular SC but we setup and 2 MBs SC (3 WS). We didn't pull it off every time but when we did, man that was beautiful. And we were 27, no advanced jobs, little game knowledge.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, hope you get invites.

 

[Ugotjacked]

Actually ranger is harder than most people tihnk. When you Ranged attack you cant use it again for a certain time and youll get a little reminder if you go to early.

So those macros with repeating Ranged attacks will lose alot of TP and DoT. Considering half a second is 50 Delay. and in between regular ranged attacks if you go to early you lose maybe 10-20 delay sometimes. Over time your gonna lose alot of TP compared to autoattacking war. Honestly though I wish they would just make Sidewinder like every other multihit WS because all out Misses really hurt on WS.

 

[Kiere]

I also had shit luck in the mid 50's. My blm is still 55...been there for probably 6 months or more...and at least two levels of the last five I did solo. Invites on my rdm even slowed down a bit in that period.

 

[Skaw]

Actually ranger is harder than most people tihnk. When you Ranged attack you cant use it again for a certain time and youll get a little reminder if you go to early.

So those macros with repeating Ranged attacks will lose alot of TP and DoT. Considering half a second is 50 Delay. and in between regular ranged attacks if you go to early you lose maybe 10-20 delay sometimes. Over time your gonna lose alot of TP compared to autoattacking war. Honestly though I wish they would just make Sidewinder like every other multihit WS because all out Misses really hurt on WS.

It's called /wait XXX. XXX representing your Delay. It's not hard to make the conversion from 100 = 1 sec to 60 = 1 sec. Only a moron wouldn't be able to figure out how to correctly make a repeating ranged attack macro. It's just simple 3rd grade division.

No, it's not hard.

 

[Dowzer]

It's called /wait XXX. XXX representing your Delay. It's not hard to make the conversion from 100 = 1 sec to 60 = 1 sec. Only a moron wouldn't be able to figure out how to correctly make a repeating ranged attack macro. It's just simple 3rd grade division.

No, it's not hard.

Rapid shot, ahoy-hoy!

While a macro seems to be efficient, I would be very annoyed with it.

 

[Motoguzzi]

Rapid shot, ahoy-hoy!

While a macro seems to be efficient, I would be very annoyed with it.

As would I...
I have 2 normal /ra macs.. one is --> /ra <stnpc) for pulling
the other is plain and simple /ra <t>

Then I have my various macs for ws's .. all of which include a 3 second delay to give; a) my pt mates a chance to prepare for the damage (time to voke/stun/flash.. etc) and b) it gives me a chance to cancel the action.. shoud I need to.

Other macs... depends on sj I am currently,

If WAR: have the .. berserk -> Barrage -> Sharpshot (along with a warning to my Tank/Healers that I intend to finish this beast off... but be ready just incase XD)

Have others set up for SAM which I can't use yet.. not worth while until 60 imo... then NIN as well of course..

 

[Lavi]

Ok, kinda annoyed by the bitch who left the anonymous comment. I don't particularly enjoy the job in parties and that's my preference, you don't have a say in that. Seriously, if you don't have the guts to say shit out right, then don't say it. However, since it was said to me, I will respond.

It's in no way my fault the job is screwed up. I didn't ask for the nerf although I did completely welcome it when it happened (I had no idea it would be as bad as it was). As I explained and no one since has given any reasonable reason as to why my logic is faulty, RNG can screw with any form of SC and often causes other players to lose their TP. I don't complain when I play THF that dynamis, limbus, besieged, etc. because I can never land a SA, TA and often lose TP because of a moving mob, I accept it. However, when in an experience party, I can be more selective and fix that problem. Fleist is the only person to bother suggesting standing close to the mob when you WS, but since no ranger I have ever met does this, there is no reason for me to consider inviting one. If you don't like the way your job is percieved, then do something about it or accept it instead of placing the blame on me.

 

[Dowzer]

Wasn't me!

I suppose my screenshot of being covered means I was shooting from a distance? Especially since the THF landed SA off of my 2k+ Barrage/Sidewinder... Huh?

 

[meeze]

but since no ranger I have ever met does this, there is no reason for me to consider inviting one. If you don't like the way your job is percieved, then do something about it or accept it instead of placing the blame on me.

closed mouths don't get fed. I had a rng the other day who was doing the arching thing > SB, it was moving toomuch, so i told her to move up behind mob, and she did.

 

[Motoguzzi]

It definitely was not me either. I don't get into verbal bashing. And if I have something to say, it will be said in the open.

As for Ranger messing up your skillchain/ tp loss. I think it all comes back down to people not caring to play as a "team" anymore... people seem to be inconsiderate of the party as a whole. This is not a "Ranger" trait nor a <insert your least favorite job here> trait... it is just what I have noticed. If we can all spend that 5 minutes or so we were talking about to establish a plan of action before we start to fight, then I think everyone's experience will improve.

 

[Lavi]

Wasn't me!

I suppose my screenshot of being covered means I was shooting from a distance? Especially since the THF landed SA off of my 2k+ Barrage/Sidewinder... Huh?

I don't know about Cover, I assume you only need to be behind the person for it to work. The SA was a solo SA with no weaponskill stacked. You don't immediately lose SA like you do a WS. WS are instant and if the mob is too far you will lose it whereas a SA is stacked with the next attack. If you are too far, you will not lose SA, just won't activate until the next swing. For all I know, the mob could have run around and the THF could have just turned away until it was stationary and then got in place for the SA to land. But as far as I can recall, no ranger I have ever partied with has ever stood behind the mob. They always stand far enough away to waste my TP and it's not just on THF, WAR as well. In a cannon, I have the same problem, there is little warning when someone is going to use a weaponskill so it's very common I will go at the same instant as someone else.

closed mouths don't get fed. I had a rng the other day who was doing the arching thing > SB, it was moving toomuch, so i told her to move up behind mob, and she did.

If I have to tell someone how to do their jobs, they are either going to get angry (most people dislike being told what to do), ignore me, give me reasons why they shouldn't, occasionally forget, etc. I can sidestep all those and just invite another job. It's not my place to solve and fix their problems for them. If they are in my party, sure, I can suggest what to do, but that won't solve all my problems. I will still have every future RNG do the same thing or worse. I have told people numerous times what to do in parties to improve their performance and it always falls on deaf ears or is forgotten a minute later. I had a WAR the other day (provided it was a low level party) using defender and wasn't even tanking. I suggested to him to use berserk instead since it would enhance his damage. I think he used it once... on top of defender. What do you expect me to do?

Really, it's just a preference. Some people dislike DRGs. Others dislike THF. Is it my place to judge why they dislike those jobs? Are their reasons any less valid? Not really. If someone doesn't like a particular job, you have no right to force it on them. You are very welcome to change their opinions, mine included, if you can, but for the most part, people are set in their ways.

 

[Ugotjacked]

Believe me ive tried it its very inefficient. Why do you always have opinions on things you never do?

Do you jsut like to build up post count?


Edit: Ooops forgot to quote you... directed towards Skaw.

 

[Dowzer]

I don't know about Cover, I assume you only need to be behind the person for it to work

Cover! The Colibri uses Pecking Flurry.

That confirms I was in melee range of the mob.

The SA was a solo SA with no weaponskill stacked. You don't immediately lose SA like you do a WS. WS are instant and if the mob is too far you will lose it whereas a SA is stacked with the next attack. If you are too far, you will not lose SA, just won't activate until the next swing. For all I know, the mob could have run around and the THF could have just turned away until it was stationary and then got in place for the SA to land.

Are ya tryin' to tell your daddy how to make a baby?

But as far as I can recall, no ranger I have ever partied with has ever stood behind the mob. They always stand far enough away to waste my TP and it's not just on THF, WAR as well. In a cannon, I have the same problem, there is little warning when someone is going to use a weaponskill so it's very common I will go at the same instant as someone else.

You make baby Jesus cry with those skillchain PTs