RANT at the good old U.S of A

[Caerloc]

My house has never caught fire either, brb, I'm going to go throw all the fire extinguishers away.

I can say i can make it without a fire-estinguishers. Would i prefer to have one? Sure. But do i NEED one to the point where i throw psychotic fits about it? Nah, i trust our fire-department.

 

[beeznuts]

I can say i can make it without a fire-estinguishers. Would i prefer to have one? Sure. But do i NEED one to the point where i throw psychotic fits about it? Nah, i trust our fire-department.

Psychotic fits? Are you implying that people who don't agree with you are insane?

Either way, it must be nice to have a nearby, close, and active police department for you to be able to rely on if your life is in danger. Here, for example, the township I live in has had the police disbanded, instead relying on state police and those from neighboring communities. What this means is that the police here, at best, will take half an hour to arrive. Longer if it's worse off. This is sort of an extreme example, but dangerous situations arise that cannot be escaped by simply fleeing the house.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for guns for protection from anything.
The world is not perfect.

 

[Caerloc]

Psychotic fits? Are you implying that people who don't agree with you are insane?

Either way, it must be nice to have a nearby, close, and active police department for you to be able to rely on if your life is in danger. Here, for example, the township I live in has had the police disbanded, instead relying on state police and those from neighboring communities. What this means is that the police here, at best, will take half an hour to arrive. Longer if it's worse off. This is sort of an extreme example, but dangerous situations arise that cannot be escaped by simply fleeing the house.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for guns for protection from anything.
The world is not perfect.

People arent insane for disagreeing. But imo, he can off as a lunatic. And even more so if he claims to ABSOLUTELY needing his gun, and it turns out he never had to use it.

And as for your personal situation, i agree, that do suck. But i belive that a society where most people keep a gun in their house, makes criminals think they NEED a gun just to break in. And if your gonna argue that criminals would have a gun anyways when they break in, then i would say it at the very least makes them more proned to use the gun, cause they dont know if your sitting with a gun to.

 

[Makelith]

And fun fact, a war is a war, no matter how fast the opposing army surrenders.

Isn't the whole iraq deal actually a conflict, since we didn't declare war? Or did we declare war? Still, Wars and Conflicts are very much the same, but still pretty different.

 

[Dejavu]

Ok well as i stated before i see no reason for handguns or other easily concealed weapons however my house has... several hunting rifles as well as a shotgun and a M16 (which i got at a gun show when i was 12) in my closet which i do keep loaded incase of emergencies. It should not be illegal to possess any weapons of this nature but i honestly dont see how people can make the argument that handguns are for protection when an assault rifle would do a much better job.

I really dont want to look for a figure to support my claim cause im fairly tired but im sure someone can find a figure that an extremely high percentage of crimes involving a gun infact involve handguns only. With the exceptions of the all out crazy shoot em up massacres.

 

[Dejavu]

Isn't the whole iraq deal actually a conflict, since we didn't declare war? Or did we declare war? Still, Wars and Conflicts are very much the same, but still pretty different.

iraq is not a war... united states has not declared war since ww2 i believe.

 

[Kagemusha]

Isn't the whole iraq deal actually a conflict, since we didn't declare war? Or did we declare war? Still, Wars and Conflicts are very much the same, but still pretty different.

That's what I was getting at, just like Vietnam and Korea are conflicts, we haven't declared war since WWII.

 

[Caerloc]

Didnt you not declare war, because of the whole thing being an illegal and unsanctioned invasion? Sorta makes it hard to follow proper forms.

 

[Tristam Green]

But your handguns still arent protecting you.

No, my shotguns, rifles, handguns, and knives (when all else fails) sure as hell do though

Yeah, cause this guy doesnt seem paranoid at all.

Like he said, if paranoia is wanting to be prepared for possible realities, then "I don't wanna be right", baby.

Dude, follow the argument. You Americans have stated that you need your guns to protect yourself from a government turned tyrants. When the goverment turns corrupt and tyrannical i would assume that means they no longer follow the american laws?

Flawed logic is flawed. If the U.S. Government really told its own military force to open fire on the general public (read: Waco was not the general public): do you really think that the majority of the infantry, artillery, and air cavalry would really listen? (read: "son, turn and open fire on your home town, where your wife and children live") Horseshit. They'd turn the tanks, Apaches, and all kinds of shit on their own generals en masse.

My house has never caught fire either, brb, I'm going to go throw all the fire extinguishers away.

I lol'd.



Caerloc, fuck you. You got owned, and in a hard way (I believe the term "six ways from Sunday" applies).

Apples still don't equal oranges, so don't compare our rights and laws to yours, and especially don't compare them to your own twisted ideas. It's worked for us for the past 231 years, I *think* it'll work for us in the future, and I doubt it'll go away, legally or not.

 

[exodusamphi]

Didnt you not declare war, because of the whole thing being an illegal and unsanctioned invasion? Sorta makes it hard to follow proper forms.

Um, last time I checked war was war, its not illegal. We havent declared it a war because Congress wont allow it. Its alot better for the public to hear "conflict" then "war" because people tend to associate more death with war.

 

[Tristam Green]

Um, last time I checked war was war, its not illegal. We havent declared it a war because Congress wont allow it. Its alot better for the public to hear "conflict" then "war" because people tend to associate more death with war.

Not really, it's because when we declare war, we start gearing toward 'total war', i.e. moving the economy to drive the battles.

see Rosie the Riveter for more info.

 

[Dejavu]

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2007/05/21/understanding-war-powers-declare-vs-wage/

The war is 100% illegal

There are 2 areas of the constitution that are important in this argument the first is Article II, Section 2

Article II, Section 2, on the other hand, refers to the President as the “commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States.” What the founders meant by this clause was that once war was declared, it would then be the responsibility of the President, as the commander-in-chief, to direct the war.

The second important part of the constitution is the Article I, Section 8 which gives to the Legislative Branch the power to decide when the United States goes to war.

Congress is partly to blame for not standing up for their rights but there is a history of laying over the power of war to the president ever since the Korean war.

It really needs to stop so that the decision to go to war is on the hands of the representitives and the people that they represent rather than one person who is arguably the biggest idiot who has ever been elected.

James Madison warned us that the power of declaring war must be kept away from the executive branch when he wrote to Thomas Jefferson:

“The constitution supposes, what the history of all governments demonstrates, that the executive is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to it. It has accordingly with studied care vested the question of war in the legislature.”

 

[Dejavu]

Um, last time I checked war was war, its not illegal. We havent declared it a war because Congress wont allow it. Its alot better for the public to hear "conflict" then "war" because people tend to associate more death with war.

If congress wont allow it then how is it legal. And what is the difference between a war and a conflict when we are the ones invading... our national security was not being threatened when we went into Iraq it was a preemptive war for the sake of nation building under the guise of terrorism.

Also if congress wont allow it then why is it a good thing for ONE RETARDED PERSON to have the power to declare war. This hurts to say because i am a conservative on all of my major views but the republican party has turned into warmongering neocons.

 

[Tristam Green]

This hurts to say because i am a conservative on all of my major views but the republican party has turned into warmongering neocons.

No argument there, I hear my father and my grandfather say the exact same thing.

 

[Dejavu]

But Green i have a question for you since you seem to agree with not declaring war but what is the difference between declaring war and a unilateral conflict other that the whims of one person vs. the collective thought of the group.

 

[Tristam Green]

But Green i have a question for you since you seem to agree with not declaring war but what is the difference between declaring war and a unilateral conflict other that the whims of one person vs. the collective thought of the group.

Huh? I wasn't arguing with you dude. I sure as heck don't agree with this shitstorm going on over there, and while I feel the initial cause was just (read: remove the Baath and Taliban regimes from Iraq and Afghanistan), we've overstayed our welcome by generating a clusterfuck.

Sure, the whole thing will be written in the history books as "The Iraq War": just like "The Korean War", or "The Vietnam War" or "The Gulf War". Congress didn't declare a war, but it's definitely warlike conditions.

Also, I'd hardly call this unilateral, since it's easily the most debated event on Capitol Hill on any given day.

It was effectively unilateral in 2003 when we entered Afghanistan. Since then solidarity has fallen apart.

 

[Dejavu]

Not really, it's because when we declare war, we start gearing toward 'total war', i.e. moving the economy to drive the battles.

see Rosie the Riveter for more info.

ah i was mislead by this post and the reason that i used the word unilateral is because when one person is given the right to make a decision there is only one side to an argument but perhaps that was poor word choice and ill concede that point.

 

[Tristam Green]

cool, sorry for the confusion

Yeah, I only meant that the difference between a "conflict" such as this, Kosovo, or anything we've been involved in since WWII means that it's not a total group effort.

When Congress declares war, the shit hits the fan. Material production goes wartime, giving the literal meaning of the word homefront. Automobile plants would be converted into tank/aircraft plants and the like.

While historically wars/conflicts provide a boost to economies (this time is no different), those boosts are followed by recession/depression. Re: WWI/Great Depression.

I'm loopy right now, so if I'm not making sense I apologize.

 

[Dejavu]

While historically wars/conflicts provide a boost to economies (this time is no different), those boosts are followed by recession/depression. Re: WWI/Great Depression.

This is a really good point and a good reason to be worried about if we ever do get out of this war but i think that it is necessary to get out of this war asap since we are turning more people against the USA everyday we are flexing our muscles in places we dont belong. However with the current depression of the dollar and current economic problems despite the war on terror i forsee another large scale recession on the horizion.

 

[Tristam Green]

This is a really good point and a good reason to be worried about if we ever do get out of this war but i think that it is necessary to get out of this war asap since we are turning more people against the USA everyday we are flexing our muscles in places we dont belong. However with the current depression of the dollar and current economic problems despite the war on terror i forsee another large scale recession on the horizion.

You aren't the only one