RDM BS

Blowy said:
No, your stats when you cast the debuff ...

Thanks for the link - finally NUMBERS! Thats one thing that pisses me off about this game is the lack of solid numbers on anything. No I didn't consider them random Kiets - But I was unaware that they affected them that much - because, be honest man - we are still talking decimals here, which that 0.4 adds out to be 4 out of 10 casts I get an extra paralyze effect. That is nice, but hardly noticeable when playing. I have no problems with the durations so far. I agree every little bit helps, which is why I shell out the big money for the +1s...

As far as melee gear, I had gloves, sword and shield - that's it - the rest RDM gear Morions, Holy Phial, Black cape +1, Eremites +1, etc. - what I considered INT heavy and balanced to where I don't deal with resistance or dropped debuffs that much. As I said, my point when meleeing is not to do tons of damage, just some and do it passively while performing my RDM duties.

I understand the importance of Enfeebling the mob fully. I haven't had any problems doing so thus far while meleeing, which is why I have the stance that I do. If I can hit Chain 6 and beyond - sadly I have never been able to hit 7 from lack of killing speed ; ; - that was all that mattered to me. Mission Accomplished in my book.
 
and to break it down even for you ...

vent [ vent ]

noun (plural vents)

1. opening for air: a small opening that allows fresh air to enter or stale air, gas, smoke, or steam to escape


2. zoology opening in animal’s body: the external opening through which all waste material and eggs pass in fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and primitive mammals


3. way of releasing strong feelings: a way of releasing or expressing strong feelings, or a chance to do so
a vent for his anger



4. geology opening in Earth’s crust: an opening in the Earth’s crust from which gases or volcanic material escape


5. arms opening in gun breech: a small opening in the breech of an old muzzle-loading gun through which the charge is ignited

So, in other words, a "Flame Forum" is #3 above ...
 
The numbers are a bit inconclusive (the translations are pretty garbled) but if you add up that effectiveness with similar values for Slow(attack speed down), Dia II(Defence down), Blind (accuracy down), and Gravity (Evasion down), and I think the mob would have died quicker and your WHM may have used less MP, had you not been hitting it....I think it's at least worth considering.

Kat and Keits, are you still playing with us or have you gone off on your own :P :P
 
Blowy said:
Kat and Keits, are you still playing with us or have you gone off on your own :P :P

I am very sorry for getting this thread off track ... please forgive for that ...

Sculli, if you'd like to move my posts somewhere else it's very understandable ...

Again, I apologize ...
 
You come to a flame forum, give me shit about being mean to people on it, and somehow I'm the one that needs to grow up or fix it world view?

I'm not yelling at people who disagree with me. A disagreement requires the presents of opinions. Im not prefacing most of my information with "I think" or "In my opinion" because these are not simply 'my view'. These are truths in FFXI, like it or not.

I love discussion, and disagreements, and debates.

I hate idiots.

Like the moron here who is presented with the reasons why being a melee RDM is less effective that the alternative, and still refutes them with no basis whatsoever.

I've even said, at least 5 times, that a melee RDM can be a good player... but again, a RDM of equal skill who does not melee will always be more effective for a party concerned with getting the best xp/hour (this statement excludes certain outliers, such as pre-level 25, and a RDM with a kraken club).

If you chose to judge a person on their behavior on a flame forum, you are the one that probably needs to reevaluate your view. But I know you wont, so its best we just dont associate with eachother.

You see, the thing about video games is that they run on computer coding... rules and forumlas and such exists, and are always in play. Short of cheating, you cannot break them. This holds true in FFXI just as much as it does Street Fighter. You cant just come to a forum and say "RDM Melee is benifitial to a party because I said so", or "I hit Ryu out of the startup of his Hurican Kick all the time... (FYI, its got a few frames of invonerability on it in most versions of SFII that allow it pass through fireballs or whatever is thrown at it)...

You cant just come to a forum and say HEY GUYS, 2+2=5 BECAUSE I SAID SO.

Thats the point, as it has been the entire time. Your shit isnt true because you said so.

On that note, why is my shit more true that your shit?

~I read boring studies about the mathematics behind RPGs
~I pay close attention to everything that happens
~I learn as much as I can about any game im serious about (this is why you need to fear me in most 2d fighting games..)
~And, unlike you, im still learning about FFXI. Some of you people seem to think you already know everything, and when proven wrong or shown differently, you grasp your retardation until your valitity as a player AND an intellegent human being are gone.

Why? Because of a bias? Because you hate me? Because you need to be right that badly?

The reason you dont see my admitting that im wrong too often is because I DONT MAKE SHIT UP, OR ASSUME, OR GUESS AT THINGS... and when I do, I always start with "In my opinion", or "I think"...

You dont 'think' that RDM melee is more effective. You KNOW it. And when you KNOW something that isnt correct, you have a problem with your brain. You now KNOW that 2+2=5, in essense. In school, teachers would have raised their voices with you, and you might have failed. In FFXI, Keits raises his voice at you, and you most certainly fail at reaching the potential of your job.

You know the game is over when people who dont even like me post "Yeah, the asshole is right". Just shutup and accept it already... I cant wait to see your next post about how Acid Bolts arnt as effective for the party because they dont hit as hard as mythril bolts or some stupid shit like that.

Forget your lack of a grasp on the mechanics of the game...Im sick of you because of your lack of ability to read and comprehend information. Many of us have said the same things in our posts 4, 5, and even 6 times, yet you remain lost. I just dont get how, i guess...

(I use 'you' in referance to both Kat and Theorist in different sentances. Use context to figure out who im refering to.)
 
Tyrion said:
Kelsilv said:
I'll have to run a parser to figure out exactly how many explanations it takes to make the Irritated Keits NM pop.

I hope it drops something good...

/camps keits...

/em wanders in, finds Tyrion camping something, and camps next to him, because, much like TaruTaru, NM campers are magnetic.


~This pointless post was brought to you by boredom, and sleepyness~
 
3. way of releasing strong feelings: a way of releasing or expressing strong feelings, or a chance to do so
a vent for his anger

2. intense: very angry, intense, or passionate
flaming indignation

Okay you lost me... Are you telling me that my posts here are incorrect becuase of the above?

Am I not intense?
Am I not passionate?
Am I not very angry?
Am I not releasing or expressing strong feelings?
Are you and I speaking the same language?
 
Ill make it more clear to you...

I feel, very strongly, that Theorist is an idiot. I am here releasing these strong feelings.

This is what a flame forum is here for, as you yourself said. Yet, you have found a way to have a problem with me. Congratulations.
 
Keits said:
You come to a flame forum, give me shit about being mean to people on it, and somehow I'm the one that needs to grow up or fix it world view?

I'm not yelling at people who disagree with me. A disagreement requires the presents of opinions. Im not prefacing most of my information with "I think" or "In my opinion" because these are not simply 'my view'. These are truths in FFXI, like it or not.

I love discussion, and disagreements, and debates.

I hate idiots.

(I use 'you' in referance to both Kat and Theorist in different sentances. Use context to figure out who im refering to.)

Kay, I believe this part here is directed at me ... btw, I had this long response typed out and my damn cable decided to go out on me ... ugh ... anyway, so I'll try to write as much as possible again.

You say you love discussion, and disagreements, and debates.

I do also. The difference is I don't resort to calling people names when they don't agree with my point of view regardless whether I'm right or wrong.

Example:

High School or College Debate Team ...

You're assigned a topic and you're assigned which side you're gonna be on. You research the Pro's and Con's persae (Spelling?)

After you do this you take your information with your colleagues and debate the subject at hand with the opposite team.

At NO time do you ever resort to calling the "other team" names or whatever for them voicing their opinions or the facts they have found.

Again, for the third time or more, I have no problem with your discussions, disagreements or debates ...

It's the way you present the facts, whether right or wrong, that I have a problem with, whether it's a flame forum or not. You, Keits, are the adult, show them the right way by being a role model and not stooping to name calling when they disagree.

If you show 'em the facts and they still don't see it ... oh well ... they'll learn the hard way ... but to call them an idiot or stupid is not the answer either.
 
Keits said:
Ill make it more clear to you...

I feel, very strongly, that Theorist is an idiot. I am here releasing these strong feelings.

This is what a flame forum is here for, as you yourself said. Yet, you have found a way to have a problem with me. Congratulations.

Btw, this was good, I had to laugh here ... if you could've just dropped the "idiot" part.
 
But is isnt a discussion or a debate. Its a presentation of knowns, not unknowns.

When I tell someone something 80 times and they still dont get it, i use my flameforum right and call them stupid. They are, after all, being stupid.

Im not a teacher. Im not in a debate club. Im not on a dicussion forum.

Your rules, or desires for the way you want me to act, are unfounded in this context.
 
Keits said:
But is isnt a discussion or a debate. Its a presentation of knowns, not unknowns.

When I tell someone something 80 times and they still dont get it, i use my flameforum right and call them stupid. They are, after all, being stupid.

Im not a teacher. Im not in a debate club. Im not on a dicussion forum.

Your rules, or desires for the way you want me to act, are unfounded in this context.

They are not "my rules, or desires for the way I want you to act". It is, bottom line, the difference between being an adult and a child.

When you're an adult and you disagree with someone you handle it differently than when you're a child. Figure out which way you want to be.
 
Kat, for me this thread is not the first thread discussing the RDM melee issue. I bet blowy agrees with this rofl... so many posts. All people who defends meleeing has the same pattern. We put some reasons why not to melee and why it is bad in some circumstances countless times. I agree entirely about rdm can melee as they please if they will focus on their primary job first.

Look here is a fact. I won't come here wrinting 500 word essay to every rdm melee thread if THEY ARE DOING IT! BUT THEY ARE N O T DOING IT! Experience wise the number of people who can pull off the weight of both melee and casting is very minor like said before. VERY MINOR! I only know one rdm who melees post 70 which is not in this server. Blowy probably knows about him. Airspirit is a rdm 75, but he melees. Why? He has Zenith, Joeyuse, Enhance sword, +1 cursed items, AF2s... now this is some gear that no ordinary rdm can attain them easily. Enhance sword alone DOES GIVE a reason to melee. It gives + en damage which means EN DAMAGE ALONE can make a pretty DESCENT DAMAGE. Yesterday I went to Sky for 2 hour exping just to rebuild my rusted rdm. You know what I was doing? Here... PT structure was Nin/war Thf/Nin Rng/Nin Rdm/whm (me) Blm/rdm Blm/whm

Refresh <me>
Paralise
Slow
Blind
Gravity
Poison2
Haste >>> Nin (no whm I was main healer but with nin tank)
CureIII >>> Nin
Refresh >>> Blm
Paralise
Blind
Refresh >>> Blm2
Haste >>> Thf (slow tp Builder...)
(around this time my mp is about 300ish of 690MP)
CureIII >>> Nin
CureIII >>> Nin <--- Utusemi:1 casting. blm's Stun was still recharging
Refresh <me>
Gravity
PoisonII
<Mob 1 dead. The puller already have pulled another>
<healing> (mp was below 200)
Refresh >>> Blm
Haste >>> Nin
Paralise
Blind
Slow
Gravity
.... Go back to first.

Where on earth I have time to melee here eh? Even if we had a whm and she took the cure and haste duties I was always low in mp. The melees pull as fast as they can to gain those chains. Rdm holds the key of reducing downtime and make the party ready for the next mob. After 4months not going on exp session as a rdm. I was shattered. How much exp we got? Well the PT was 72~74. We netted 4.5k per hour. This mind you is a pickup group. Should I missed a refresh cycle, Debuff, or even haste, then the party exp should have dropped much more. I become a mage line of Rdm for a reason:

1. MP management due to my race. I am no taru, I have my limits on mp.
2. Cround control management. I am the first person to sleep any sort of add. I have to be alert all times. Unless its a RDM unsleepable mob such as skeletons.
3. I have already got a bagillion stuff to do.
4. I need to filter more things to avoid lag. (not very important but well...)
5. Chance of missing some debuffs.
 
4500 per hour xp ... wow that's a nice number, and I thought we did well at 3400+ per hour the other day :wink: ...

Anyway ...

I also would like to point out that the first day in Den of Rancor the party consisted of pld/war, thf/nin, drg/war, blm/whm, rdm/whm and myself whm/blm. It was our first time there, as I've said and Uzor, our rdm, was able to melee the whole time.

We went again yesterday and the party consisted of pld/war, drk/war, drg/war, rdm/whm, blm/whm and myself whm/blm. Uzor didn't melee but maybe a total of 1 hour the whole time we there.

My point, a good rdm knows when to just cast and not melee vs. being able to melee. (ie. if you aren't gettin' the numbers as far as xp goes like you should be, put the damn sword away). As so many rdm's and other people in this thread have tried to point out what makes a person a good rdm is knowing you need to put your party first and not your meleeing skills.

PS. Shiia, yes I've read your posts in this thread ... you asked that earlier on, if people were reading them and I just hadn't had the chance to answer before this.
 
Reason why we got 4500.

1. After chain5, there was no pause. The repetition of chain5, chain5, chain5 is a pretty common sight in the 70s.
2. People see my mp usually and decides when to pull. They pull if my mp was above 150.
3. Since they kill fast with skill chains, well appart from me no one is bad on mp...
4. Well probably the best reason, the camp area was empty.

I forgot the lizards in Den of rancor heh... I usually exped my 70s in eighther boyada or gustav. Not the friendliest mobs around there... specially if I am whm subbed, my mp expence is quite high.
 
Shia said:
Reason why we got 4500.

1. After chain5, there was no pause. The repetition of chain5, chain5, chain5 is a pretty common sight in the 70s.
2. People see my mp usually and decides when to pull. They pull if my mp was above 150.
3. Since they kill fast with skill chains, well appart from me no one is bad on mp...
4. Well probably the best reason, the camp area was empty.

I forgot the lizards in Den of rancor heh... I usually exped my 70s in eighther boyada or gustav. Not the friendliest mobs around there... specially if I am whm subbed, my mp expence is quite high.

I would never EVER melee if I was main healer. My job then would be too important to risk it. Not only would I be in charge of debuffing the mob - but saving someones life - I would make an exception if Keits was in the PT so I could try to bust that blood vessel in his brain :roll:

Oh and Keits - No problems reaching Chain 6 - minimal downtime - added damage - I do my job with flying colors = meleeing as a RDM is no problem for me or my PT. Ok so maybe I was wrong about melee helping the PT out so much (I still believe it helps it in ways) - but maybe it's more of just what I bring to the PT in how I do my JOB that does it..

Call me an idiot if you want - But I have found an effective way to play RDM. It just doesn't help as much as I thought it did.

RDM75 sword
Enhancing Sword 68 Dmg: 40 Dly: 240 Enhances Damage:: 5 Latent Effect: Accuracy: 8 Latent Effect: Attack: 16

My sword
Buzzard Tuck 40 Dmg: 23 Dly: 224 DEX: 1 Sword Enhancement: Spell Duration: 5 Sword Enhancement: Spell Damage: 2
 
Keits said:
But is isnt a discussion or a debate. Its a presentation of knowns, not unknowns.

When I tell someone something 80 times and they still dont get it, i use my flameforum right and call them stupid. They are, after all, being stupid.

Im not a teacher. Im not in a debate club. Im not on a dicussion forum.

Your rules, or desires for the way you want me to act, are unfounded in this context.

Keits here is a clue - I asked for numbers. You wouldn't give me any. Am I supposed to believe what just any pompous asshole would say without questioning it? No. You could have saved yourself a few aneurysms, presented a link like Blower did - and been done with it.

Kat, don't worry about me - I am in the flame forum. If I wasn't able to take attacks as well as give them out, I wouldn't be here.
 
Theorist said:
Kat, don't worry about me - I am in the flame forum. If I wasn't able to take attacks as well as give them out, I wouldn't be here.

It's not just you hun, it's anyone and everyone who disagrees with Keits. Point is even in a flame forum, just because you don't agree with someone, that doesn't mean you need to resort to name calling. I've been looking at the posts for the past few hours, and I am very tired, so I may have missed one, but the ONLY person I see in this forum who resorts to calling people stupid or idiots when they disagree with him is Keits.

Um, if he was a 14 year old teenager it'd be more understandable, but he's an adult. Adult's "should" guide and have a good influence on our younger generation, not encourage name calling and cutting others down, especially when someone voices a different opinion other than his own, (ie. you're stupid, or an idiot or whatever).
 
Yeah, he's pretty much a dick. One of those "Because I said so you worthless sack of shit! Now get in the kitchen and make me some pie!" kinds of trash. But I knew this before I engaged him in debate.
 
Oh yeah ... and Roofie ... sorry there are 2 ...
 
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