RDM BS

naffenu said:
Mattaru said:
The second group of stats looks pretty legit. The first part seems pseudo-scientific. How many times did they fight crabs in Kuftal, the results may have been the same but throwing numbers out at that point just looks legit, it would be nice to see the results of that repeated about 4-5 times.
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go look at the threads I posted the links, I didn't pull these out of my ass ya know
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I know, im referring to the person who came up with the stats in the ( i almost typed teh) first place; the person who did the expirement. I read the whole thing...well i kinda just glanced over the BLM data..but whatev.
 
the whole thing is in reference to what is quoted, im reading the other thread now.
 
After reading allakazham thread it appears that if anything no on really know fore sure :p about the en- spells net benefit.
 
RDM Melee doesnt help: More numbers to eat.

First, my Hume SAM, lv60.
DEX - 58+22
Accuracy +19
G.katana Skill - 203.
Subjob - RNG for TWO Melee Accuracy Bonuses.
Hit rate on IT mobs - 3/5 is a good average. Sometimes a bit better.

Now, a 60 Hume RDM, with *mage* equipment.
DEX - Less than 58 base, no +s
Accuracy +0
Sword Skill - 198
Subjob - Mage subjob
Hit rate on IT mobs - With more than 22 less dex, no +accuracy, and a mage sub... and 5 points missing from the skill cap... guess how accurate a RDM is?

Id be shocked if a RDM (while still doing the rest of his job effectively) averaged 100 damage per fight. (At lv60, 100 damage is nothing, so why spend the 60-80 mana it takes to be in the front lines to begin with? You could cast a Tier 2 nuke one or two times on this same ammount of mana. Guess which does more damage?)

Ill say again, in case you missed it. And in bold.

RDMs, do as you wish. If melee makes you happy, do it. I hope you have fun playing FFXI. Please, however, do not claim that your melee is worth it on a board full of impressionable people who might believe you.
 
If the mob is a Crab for instance, the rdm can melee ALL they want. Just Dispel the Crab 'WS'.

If the RDM is Refreshing all who need it, Dispeling in a timely manner, MB on SCs (if MP allows and all), and backups heaing main tank if need be, then you can melee.

If you can NOT do these things 'while' melee'ing, then I would rather you not melee at all. Your dmg DOES help...if only a VERY small bit. Having a RDM do the above things is more important than melee'ing, of course. But if they can, feel free to melee.

Few mobs RDM should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER melee on (in 'MY' opinion):

Goblins (more tp = more bombs...bombs are bad, very bad)
Flies (basically the same as a Goblin, but they usually have higher evasion as well)
-Other AOE spamming mobs..kinda tired, so forgive me if I missed some



Crawlers are a mix...
-RDM can melee because they don't do 'too' much dmg, but ther Cocoon 'ws' is extremely annoying. RDM needs to be fast on Dispel if they want to melee.






--I don't have aproblem with RDM melee, except on a few occassions, and as long as they don't interrupt my SC -_-...--
 
yawn....

i cant believe this post went up to 3 pages so far

yawn.....



Lv 62 Red Mage/Black Mage
working on white mage to sub as well
 
Eni said:
yawn....

i cant believe this post went up to 3 pages so far

yawn.....



Lv 62 Red Mage/Black Mage
working on white mage to sub as well
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I think it's only 3 pages because I bumped up my own post :oops:
 
OniTatsujin said:
This game is about having fun, and just doing what you feel like doing, but obviously you guys have forgotten that...
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Yes, but on the other hand, if you're not being the best PT member you can be, you're screwing over the PT, thus lessening their fun.
 
RDM Melee

I feel like joining the non-melee RDM anonymous. Hi My name is Onidori, and I play an RDM who dosen't Melee.

My RDM is 34, which is about middle level by most people's standards. Being a Taru, my stat naturally favors casting magic. I can cure just about as well as any WHM at same level. When I work with WHM to maximize chaining and reduce downtime, the exp flows much faster in exp party for sure. When I melee & nuke, if I gain hate or gets hit by AoE attacks, then the amount of dmg that I receive is usually nullified by any benefit I can bring to a party via melee.

For example, I was in an exp. party with a WHM, BLM, and 3 meleers. The BLM consistently meleed and gained hate. Effectively, the BLM became tank. Even though I was doing about 80% healing duty, we could only chain about 1 maybe 2 since a large amount of healing goes to the BLM To prevent the BLM from eating the dirt. Noone died, but we had to rest after every 2 fights.

Next day, I was not able to make this party, and only healer was the WHM. The WHM died 4 times. From I what I gather, without 2 full time healers, the party could not keep people from eating dirt when the mage gains too much hate. Once the BLM goes down, the other PTY members go down right after.

The lesson to me was that the math is not all about DMG contribution, it is also about how much resource spent to keep the pty going and consider the pay off for the party.

Even so, I always carry both melee equipment (with STR/DEX/attack boost) and magic equipment (with INT/MND/AGI boost). And I have macros to reequip instantly. And when I recently did Mission 3-3 in an alliance of 8 people, 6 of which are RDM (plus 1 WHM and 1 BLM), it was a blast to get to 10th Level in Delkuft, and have everyone jump in and pound the hack out of them gigas. No magic, just good old fashion hacking them to pieces.

Onidori, Windurst Taru, RDM 34 / WHM 20 / BLM 20
--> Disclaimer: I can't spell worth %#&@ <--
 
Tyrion said:
OniTatsujin said:
This game is about having fun, and just doing what you feel like doing, but obviously you guys have forgotten that...
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Yes, but on the other hand, if you're not being the best PT member you can be, you're screwing over the PT, thus lessening their fun.
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This is the first intellegent thing I think you've added to a conversation yet. Bravo.
 
Geez, what i meant was
If the RDM is still casting all the necessary spells, everyone is refreshed, and has haste, and if the RDM wants to melee, then let the friken RDM melee, as long as they have all their spells up, then don't bitch and moan, everything is alright, you don't need to be a sissy little baby whining becuz your RDM is meleeing, "Waah, their meleeing, all the spells are up, everyone has haste and refresh, but i will still whine because i have nothing better to do"...
pfftt
 
Hey Oni-Idiot. No one ever said (especially not me) that Red mages *needed to* or *should* stay out of melee.

What im pointing out here is that being ~~out~~ of melee is more efficient where mana/damage is concerned.

I've said multiple times that if melee makes the RDM happy, then to do it.

I really dont like you.
 
Not to chew our spinach twice, but did i just read a RDM, saying that they sub BRD and sing 2 songs? Oo


And that a rdm cant wait for Vorpal Blade? a WAR/PLD/DRK only WS.

And then Savage Blade which RDM can only get @ 75.

Just checking...
 
Incorrect info's on that last post,

RDM's Lv70+ WS Savage Blade can be obtained at Lv73 ~ you need 240 points to activate skill & Lv71 to start the quest.

As for melee all the way to get those wonderful WS's, there are thing's called skill up parties. You don't NEED to melee all the way to 75 nor are you going to. NO YOU WILL NOT, period. For those that are thinking they can melee all the way to 75, STOP NOW, don't even try it you will regret it.

Why you not going to melee all the way to 75?

Simple, your going to miss those mob's most of the time ~ you see those mob's in Ro'meave? IT++ starting at Lv71. Your going to hit a damn at that lvl and you STILL going to miss fair chance even at 75 [ your sword skill at 200? forget it, drop sword & go back to the job of healing & enfeebling..etc ].

Even with a bard playing sword & blade madrigal, your going to miss alot of the time.

Ask any high level redmage if they meleed so much, they didn't. They stuck to the job of healing, enfeebling, haste etc. THose that obtained final WS did it via SKILL UP parties.

That's what a skill up party is for, it's to catch up on your WS point's that you COULDN'T obtain during a xp session, they were all patient till they blew past 70 or close than did skill up's.

How you do think the high level whm's obtained Hexa Strike or Black Halo?.

Skill up parties are a must, Bard's that want Evisceration or Ranger's that want Detanator, RDM want Savage Blade ~ your going to need to spend the time to skill up.

If you want to melee all the way ~ your choice but you not going to hit that mob often enough to make a difference.
 
I play RDM. Currently 42. I am damn good I might add, not to sound arrogant or anything. Just I keep getting told that I am...

Anyway, RDM's can melee and I recommend it if done right. HOWEVER!!! This is NOT your job. This is EXTRA damage only and is your last priority in a PT.

Typical fight,

Puller pulls
Refresh Me
Regen Tank
Mob enters camp
Enspell Me
Refresh PLD
Dia 2, Paralyze
Refresh WHM
Draw sword and Enter Melee
Gravity, Slow, Blind
Magic Burst, Cure, keep refresh up on PLD/WHM/RDM, recast debuffs

Never spam black magic spells, your MP is too valuable. Magic Burst only

But, if you want to melee, for the love of god - spend money and time to make it worthwhile - otherwise don't even try.

Mainly, cap Enhancing (this is no easy feat unless you mine or harvest). Cap Sword. And wear +ACC!!! And ffs, remember that melee is your LAST priority.

You may say RDM doesn't hit that much or do enough damage to make melee worthwhile. All it takes is an item or two to fix that. Battle Gloves, level 14 +ACC gloves are a godsend. I gain TP faster than a refreshed PLD. With Refresh, this ensures that I actually have 100% TP every other fight. With En-Spells active, I am not DD, but I do add 20 damage melee, and 9 damage from En-spells, along with hitting 10-12 times a fight... thats around 300 damage and 70-90% TP. That extra melee damage can turn that C- in Elemental Magic into an A.

I realize that I will eventually lose my +ACC to equipment upgrades. When I do, I will put away my sword. But I just want people to realize that there are good RDMs out there that have thier priorities straight and can melee in a fight and enhance the PT further, not to it's detriment.
 
I play RDM. Currently 42. I am damn good I might add, not to sound arrogant or anything. Just I keep getting told that I am...

Anyway, RDM's can melee and I recommend it if done right. HOWEVER!!! This is NOT your job. This is EXTRA damage only and is your last priority in a PT.

Typical fight,

Puller pulls
Refresh Me
Regen Tank
Mob enters camp
Enspell Me
Refresh PLD
Dia 2, Paralyze
Refresh WHM
Draw sword and Enter Melee
Gravity, Slow, Blind
Magic Burst, Cure, keep refresh up on PLD/WHM/RDM, recast debuffs

Never spam black magic spells, your MP is too valuable. Magic Burst only

But, if you want to melee, for the love of god - spend money and time to make it worthwhile - otherwise don't even try.

Mainly, cap Enhancing (this is no easy feat unless you mine or harvest). Cap Sword. And wear +ACC!!! And ffs, remember that melee is your LAST priority.

You may say RDM doesn't hit that much or do enough damage to make melee worthwhile. All it takes is an item or two to fix that. Battle Gloves, level 14 +ACC gloves are a godsend. I gain TP faster than a refreshed PLD. With Refresh, this ensures that I actually have 100% TP every other fight. With En-Spells active, I am not DD, but I do add 20 damage melee, and 9 damage from En-spells, along with hitting 10-12 times a fight... thats around 300 damage and 70-90% TP. That extra melee damage can turn that C- in Elemental Magic into an A.

I realize that I will eventually lose my +ACC to equipment upgrades. When I do, I will put away my sword. But I just want people to realize that there are good RDMs out there that have thier priorities straight and can melee in a fight and enhance the PT further, not to it's detriment.
 
Keits said:
Hey Oni-Idiot. No one ever said (especially not me) that Red mages *needed to* or *should* stay out of melee.

What im pointing out here is that being ~~out~~ of melee is more efficient where mana/damage is concerned.

I've said multiple times that if melee makes the RDM happy, then to do it.

I really dont like you.
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Ok, you really don't have to post to something i said, if it doesn't involve you. Ok?
And i am saying that let the RDM do their job, if they melee, whatever, as long as everyone is ok, all the spells are up.
But for some reason, Keits, you like to quote my posts, call me an idiot, and totally miss the friggin point. The point is what i am trying to say is, As long as all spells are up, it doesn't matter if the RDM melee, ok?
Want me to spell it out for you this time? Maybe this time you won't miss what i am saying?
 
OniTatsujin said:
Keits said:
Hey Oni-Idiot. No one ever said (especially not me) that Red mages *needed to* or *should* stay out of melee.

What im pointing out here is that being ~~out~~ of melee is more efficient where mana/damage is concerned.

I've said multiple times that if melee makes the RDM happy, then to do it.

I really dont like you.
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Ok, you really don't have to post to something i said, if it doesn't involve you. Ok?
And i am saying that let the RDM do their job, if they melee, whatever, as long as everyone is ok, all the spells are up.
But for some reason, Keits, you like to quote my posts, call me an idiot, and totally miss the friggin point. The point is what i am trying to say is, As long as all spells are up, it doesn't matter if the RDM melee, ok?
Want me to spell it out for you this time? Maybe this time you won't miss what i am saying?
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Here; Ill spell it out for you~

The point of your post is to put all those people who are saying that RDMs should never ever melee in their place. The problem is that no one is saying that RDMs should never melee. No one is saying that a RDM is bad if he/she melees. They are saying that these players would be better to a party if they didnt.

Even if the spells are up, it does make a difference weather or not the RDM is in melee. You are wrong.

But im sure everyone here is open enough to let their RDMs enjoy themselves. Thats not the topic at hand, so why post your nonsensical garbage here?
 
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