Redmages that dont refresh

[Sirelrohir]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh? I just got out of a pt where we had some asshole named SMG as our rdm. Wer'e fighting a goblin mercenary and I'm getting my ass handed to me. I asked for refresh 4 times, and he did not cast it. on anyone. Instead, he's meleeing. Well, both the healer and I died. I'm a pld, and quite frankly i cannot hold hate without some help from magic, whether its cures or flashes. Afterwards, he tries to convince the whole pt that he was refreshing, and that it wasnt his fault that we died. I mean WTF? The reason the healer dies was because she was /heal herself due to the lack of mp. Anyway, theres #4 on my blacklist. Anyone else in that pt, if i forgot anything please feel free to add.

 

[kriist]

>.<

Just weighing in as a Refresh whore myself. You're right, Refresh should be a main priorty of a RDM. Without MP chains are impossible and overall xp sucks :x As for melee, this is a huge debate between RDM's. I personally melee, but not on mobs with AoE, especially Bomb Toss :shock: Sorry you had such a bad experience with a RDM. And to that RDM /slap for giving us a bad name.

 

[Sirelrohir]

Dont get me wrong, I love rdms. I guess its just this one guy im pissed off about. Usually, at this level you guys are really proficient at giving out refresh, without anyone asking. I dont care if rdm melee, as long as they keep the mages and myself refreshed. This guy did neither.

 

[Pascal]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

 

[Xelos]

All good red mages know their role: refresh, enfeeb, support heal, nuke, etc.

Any red mage who does things that take away from the above list are only hurting themselves and their party.

Don't get me wrong, RDMs CAN melee as long as they have macros to do all of the above, I have actually been in a PT where the RDM used her sword, but refreshed, enfeebled, support healed, nuked, etc.

For those idiots like Darcel who were unfortunately in my static, please do society a freaking favor and shoot yourself in the foot! :twisted:

 

[jender]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

Well put Pascal. <3

People forget about what our enfeebs do - and constantly bitch about Refresh and Dispel <---often seconds AFTER you have already cast it.

Do us a favor, before you spam <Refresh, Please> look at the damned chat log - you SHOULD be able to read what spells your own party members have cast. If you have that filtered, then you are an idiot.

 

[jender]

Also - refresh has a long casting time - so RDM's CANNOT cast it on 4 people right in a row.

I hate when I refresh my healer then get a million spams on <Refresh Please> WAIT 20 DAMNED SECS A-HOLES. I am very quick with my refresh...so this bothers me to no end.

 

[MajorHavoc]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh? I just got out of a pt where we had some asshole named SMG as our rdm. Wer'e fighting a goblin mercenary and I'm getting my ass handed to me. I asked for refresh 4 times, and he did not cast it. on anyone. Instead, he's meleeing. Well, both the healer and I died. I'm a pld, and quite frankly i cannot hold hate without some help from magic, whether its cures or flashes. Afterwards, he tries to convince the whole pt that he was refreshing, and that it wasnt his fault that we died. I mean WTF? The reason the healer dies was because she was /heal herself due to the lack of mp. Anyway, theres #4 on my blacklist. Anyone else in that pt, if i forgot anything please feel free to add.

LOL... I feel your pain! So, you pretty much wound up with a (low level) WAR, without VOKE. Indeed there is much more to RDM than refresh... helping out in the battle with a little melee action is ok as long as it doesn't take away from casting.

The other night our group picked up a RDM and headed out to Boyahda Tree to fight. Well this particular RDM (her main was WHM) saw it to be more necessary to "Cure" than to refresh and enfeeb. When I my MP was spent she was healing me like crazy. I wound up dieing and then she wound up getting hit and taking a fall. I think it must have been mentioned to her several times not to heal, unless it was an emergency. I guess her intentions were good but it wasn't what was best for the party.

 

[Sirelrohir]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

Well put Pascal. <3

People forget about what our enfeebs do - and constantly bitch about Refresh and Dispel <---often seconds AFTER you have already cast it.

Do us a favor, before you spam <Refresh, Please> look at the damned chat log - you SHOULD be able to read what spells your own party members have cast. If you have that filtered, then you are an idiot.

Jender, the problem with this guy is that he did not refresh at all. Like I said, I love rdm, and what they do for the pt. I understand that enfeebs are important. I'm not trying to knock that at all. The problem is that refresh is an integral part of any plds strategy when tanking. I need to be able to cure myself. I need to be able to cast flash. It helps me to hold hate. The whm needs to be able to cure. I am usually very careful not to tell the rdm to refresh. I know that can be annoying. However, when my hp is in the red, and I have 3 mp, and the whm cant heal due to the lack of mp, thats when I have to say something. I mean our healer was knealing for a long time b/c she had no mp. Anyway, Im not going off on all rdm, just this one guy. I've pted with many, many wonderful rdm and honestly it is a great job.

 

[Jezza]

Meh..I'm lazy...

I can very honestly say I have never been in a pt where they would have been only happy with me playing refresh pimp.

But it's required. We should do it. Often. All the time. Along with everything else we're supposed to do. I really cannot understand why, on earth, a rdm wouldn't keep a refresh cycle up.

Someone would have yelled for dispel...or Dia II...or, "why didn't you throw a cure at the tank?"

Noo..it's true - we all have our own style. But....if you're pt is consistently (actually, constantly) refreshed including the drk when below 100-ish ..you're mobs are dispelled and enfeebled...and you convert when you're the only one low on mana and the pt is ready to chain...you contribute to the mb when effective...you have an ele staff or two - AND a sword er daggar...then whatever else you do is your business. If you let any duty..ANY duty slide (okay there are exceptions, if you're dealing with an ADD it's fair to miss a haste...when the mob is buffing like crazy ya may be late on a refresh..no one is perfect)...

YOU SUCK.

Really..you do..you are just not doing your job.

.

End of story.

If I'm with a pld..and they don't need refresh cuz they never use magic..and the person I'm continually throwing a cure on is the whm....

THEY SUCK.

Why? Cuz they're job is to do everything they can to keep hate. Again, yes there are exceptions. Everyone makes mistakes.

But..again..

If we're losing exp and chains because: A) I haven't enfeebled (now the mob does/takes less damage = more pt damage = wasted mp)...B) I'm not keeping ppl refreshed, now we have downtime...C) I didn't dispel (see A)...

THEN I SUCK.

Not to put down my people..but I really do hear too much about rdm not doing the basics of their job. It's not rocket science people. Melee allyou want, nuke all you want - but you'd better be doing everything else you're supposed to do - hell, you're obligated to do - to help the ppl that are helping you gain exp.

And if you need HELP setting macros..figuring out your battle routine..ask someone. Please. Or go do something else. Please.

* Falls to her knees screaming, "For the love of God, make it STOP." *

:x :x :x

It's too sad to think that 80% of us suck. I think I know why - and ooo is this gonna piss some people off.

Early in the truly newbie days, when you pick your main job and character, I would guess many of us do so by doing very little research. I read something about sword and magic and was like, COOL! So off into rdm-dom I went, and never looked back.

I don't know how good/bad I was pre-42. I can tell you that right at 42, I wasn't so hot while I was getting down the cycles, chat filters, equipping stuffs, etc. And after getting haste, I'm still not as smooth as I'd like cycling that, usually in partnership with the whm.

But there's one thing I rarely, if ever do..

Melee

I used to get raging angry when I'd read about how rdm was a pure mage class...and was in total denial about all the posts regarding how much rdm changed post 42. Okay, so yes, now and then I can take the time to go wave my sword at mobs. Usually its..."oo..wow, everyone has refresh up..cycle is steady, enfeebles all stuck, mob is mostly dead, just did the mb, and I have quite a bit of tp..looks good! Maybe I'll toss on an en-spell and see if I can hit that IT++ crabby..."

When I started this post, I was thinking - "Self, ya don't need to go into all of the things that rdm have to do..ppl know. But DO they?"

Refresh you
Haste someone
Wait 15
Fight starts
Refresh the pld
Enfeebles > Dia II or Bio II (unless the blm picks up the Bio cuz they're drk is higher), paralyze, slow, gravity, blind (unless pld just did flash), poison II
Dispel
Refresh the whm
Haste someone
Recast any enfeebles that wore or didn't stick
Dispel
Refresh the blm
Dispel (yep - this often - esp with crabs)
Elemental seal
Magic Burst
Give Aspir a shot
Refresh you......

REPEAT

CONVERT
Cure IV

REPEAT

Handle Add..ele seal, sleep stoneskin, phalanx--shit someone's refresh ran off and crap, the whm needs a cure...DAMN there went the mb...

REPEAT

CONVERT

You get the idea...

I even left out equip changes......

You should never let refresh wear off you...or anyone else that is using magic for the benefit of the party. NEVER. End of story.

You're job is to watch for buffs. Dispel it dammit. Now.

Don't wast mana on nukes...bah...do the mb..unless there's no blm..then..okay, a couple...

REMEMBER..this is POST-42. Not pre - post...I did the job very very differently prior to 42..and would go as far as saying I didn't get all this down until around 48-50.

RDM!! If you are talented enough to do all of the above, wave your sword at stuff, even nuke stuff..then DO IT. I don't care..but you'd better be DAMN SURE you're doing the rest of that. If not...

GO SUB NIN AND START SOLOING YOUR WAY TO 75..STAY OUT OF PARTIES BECAUSE YOU ARE RUINING THE NAME OF A PERFECTLY RESPECTABLE JOB.

GO AWAY

SHOO

OFF WITH YA NOW




that is all

Oh, and sorry about the shouting^^

BTW..there are good rdm out there, I know it..anyone know any so we can gang up and pummel the sucky ones?

Only thing I'd add is that I switch around enfeebles more now that I'm done with crabs...haste more...and um...may skip Dia and Bio if the whm or blm are taking care of that, respectively.

 

[jender]

Jender, the problem with this guy is that he did not refresh at all. Like I said, I love rdm, and what they do for the pt. I understand that enfeebs are important. I'm not trying to knock that at all. The problem is that refresh is an integral part of any plds strategy when tanking. I need to be able to cure myself. I need to be able to cast flash. It helps me to hold hate. The whm needs to be able to cure. I am usually very careful not to tell the rdm to refresh. I know that can be annoying. However, when my hp is in the red, and I have 3 mp, and the whm cant heal due to the lack of mp, thats when I have to say something. I mean our healer was knealing for a long time b/c she had no mp. Anyway, Im not going off on all rdm, just this one guy. I've pted with many, many wonderful rdm and honestly it is a great job.

OMG - that IS a horrible RDM...sorry if I misunderstood. Being Refresh whore IS annoying...but you HAVE to ATLEAST keep your WHM refreshed (I mean, you SHOULD be keeping all MP jobs refreshed - especially pally's...but WHM is a given - even for the extra stupid players...or so one would think LOL) Sorry for your experience...WOW. RDM's really are badass...when played correctly. Unfortunately, yeah - lots of people like that exist...and get invited into parties because of the apparent "mage drought" that has been going on. I kept getting invites from Jeuno while I was in Sandy doing the Christmas crap over the weekend. ><

 

[Direwolf]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

No it realy is. There are 2 reasons we invite you to parties. Refresh and Dispel. This is what you can do that someone else can't do for you. If you do these two spells well a party will be quite forgiving to most other things. They are the very meaning of RDM, those two spells alone are the reason they will not raise the lvl cap past 75 because high lvls would sub RDM and RDMs would not get invited again.

But hey if you don't want to use em in a party, put that in your search comment and I am sure the invites will just flow in.

 

[Pascal]

I got to use Stone Skin and Phalanx this weekend on two links. Damn that spell combo is godly. In both cases 1 party member died, but not due to me dealing with the link. First case the WAR provoked the main mob too soon and got her but handed to her. The second one the BLM decided he was going to give me a hand and nuke second mob, but I did not have enough hate yet to hold it, but he didn’t blame me, he knew he nuked too soon. I got to raise the WAR though. My first raise too. It was a good weekend, minus the baby aggro.

 

[Jezza]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

No it realy is. There are 2 reasons we invite you to parties. Refresh and Dispel. This is what you can do that someone else can't do for you. If you do these two spells well a party will be quite forgiving to most other things. They are the very meaning of RDM, those two spells alone are the reason they will not raise the lvl cap past 75 because high lvls would sub RDM and RDMs would not get invited again.

But hey if you don't want to use em in a party, put that in your search comment and I am sure the invites will just flow in.

WOW... :evil:

Tell ya what..next time you have a rdm in the party -- dude TELL them that..hell - I'll quit leveling for a few weeks just to pt with you.

For the first hour..I'll ONLY refresh and dispel. THAT's it..since every other job (really wondering which) can handle anything else I might do. Yeah, definitely have the taru blm handle add...especially if there's more than one - after all, he's got stoneskin too, right? For the next hour I'll do all of the shit that IS part of my job and lets compare the rate of experience we get.

If you have ever been blinded, paralyzed, had Dia II or Bio II, slow, gravity, and Poison II all cast on you by a mob would you not die a lot fucking faster????? Faster kills = more exp.

It makes me sad I just had to explain the painfully obvious.

BTW - do you not see the power in enfeebles because there's no massive damage that pops up? Sometimes...I wish there were a way to see how much damage all those enfeebs add up to throughout an entire battle. We're subtle support..but then, it's the subtlties that go unnoticed by the simple.

 

[Svina]

Idunno why people think RDM is such a hard job to do right. I pitched in for the best of the best gear money could buy, and even took the time to camp (ugh...camping) moldavite for magic bursting. People think that extra 800k for 1 int don't do much, but I can argue the opposite.

My enfeebs stuck 90% of the time and were extra potent without an elemental staff, almost 99.9% of the time with +1 elemental staves, my nukes outdid the BLM when they weren't resisted, and they rarely were. (provided the BLMs gear was "the norm"). By extra potent I mean my paralyze was kicking in fairly often, and sleep would stick for well past an entire battle. With my pluto staff I could aspir for up to 100 MP on mobs that were not IT++++++++++++++++++++++++, but were still IT to me, most of the time, my record drain spell took 220 HP from the mob, also IT.

Now on the topic of refresh, it isn't so hard to form a cycle. I found it extra easy to keep track of who needs to be refreshed by macro'ing in a /recast Refresh in my trigger for it, so I knew how much time I had in between casts to do the rest of my job (enfeebs, haste, whatever). I'd always start by refreshing myself, then the PLD if there was one, then WHM always in that order. If there were more than 3 MP users in the pt, I'd have to ration out who gets refresh and who doesn't primarily, which ISNT TO SAY I COMPLETELY IGNORED THE OTHERS. I'd only refresh them if they were running low on MP and obviously had no competent means of restoring it quickly, provided I either A) had convert available or ready to use it soon, or B) I had plenty of MP (and time) to spare. But if I was focusing on getting ready for an MB or getting enfeebs to stick, or other duties, then yeah, some people may have to wait another second or two for their refresh. But nonetheless I still was able to keep everyone refreshed almost the whole time (everyone forgets once or twice in a while though!). I could never fathom melee'ing though, as RDM really does hav ea lot to do and to keep track of, which is nearly impossible to do while melee'ing without extreme effort, which, quite frankly aint my cup of tea. And on top of that, I'm a mage at heart.

If a RDM is really so awful that they can't do the job they were invited for (people do seem to overlook the fact we are competent enfeeblers and even nukers!), which normally they are invited simply for refresh. If they can't do at least that duty which they are held responsible for, they should not be playing RDM. The rest holds true that yea, they should be doing more than just refreshing, but their main reason for being invited is that ever so helpful refresh. A PLD will never form a pt without a RDM (BRD can be too difficult with positioning and all) but as it seems to be the case that most RDM are absolutely shitty at their job.

Even though my experience as a RDM was brief, I didn't find it to be an overly complicated job in the end. I loved every minute of it though!

 

[Sirelrohir]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that he was trying to pull off a Spirits Within ws... without full hp (and probably like 100 tp, but i really am not sure about this)

 

[Pascal]

What's the point of this job if not for the refresh?

Enfeebling, Enhancing, Support. Refresh is a part of our Enhancing Arsenal, but it is not our only duty.

No it realy is. There are 2 reasons we invite you to parties. Refresh and Dispel. This is what you can do that someone else can't do for you. If you do these two spells well a party will be quite forgiving to most other things. They are the very meaning of RDM, those two spells alone are the reason they will not raise the lvl cap past 75 because high lvls would sub RDM and RDMs would not get invited again.

But hey if you don't want to use em in a party, put that in your search comment and I am sure the invites will just flow in.

I don’t know about you, but most BLM and WHM I party with do not like to enfeeble. I almost always have to ask a BLM to cast shock. Most WHM cannot get there enfeebles to land and when they do they do not stick for very long. A level 50 WHM friend of mine found this out, when enfeebling was put on her because the RDM refused to do it. She could not get them to stick and when she did they would wear right after.

Yes Refresh and Dispel are the reasons we get invites, but that does not change the fact that when we are in a party enfeebling is a part of our job because no one else does it as well as us. They are also just as important as Refresh and Dispel because with out them you will still have just as much trouble doing chains.

Also I did not say I would not cast them, but I am not going to be lazy and only cast Refresh and Dispel.

 

[Direwolf]

Wow you completely misunderstood me but thats ok. I full apreciate the value of debuffs thank you very much, I paralyze, Dia II, Slow, and Frost/choke depending on need. Hell I bought the fucken elemental staffs to boost the power of mine thanks. I also apreciate the help with haste. I fully understand that there is MORE to your job then Refresh and Dispel, however it is by far the most important.

Spend an hour in a Party without using Refresh or Dispel vs not using your enhancing/enfeebling magic. Parties seem to hing atround Dispel cause those friecken crabs have that buff of theirs that makes them imposibale to hit. Melees can't hit magic will get resisted. Then the mages will have to work overtime to help kill the damn thing and MP will be exhausted. But hey I am sure Gravity is worth it.

Oh and what fucken ediot gets hate with enfeebles?!!! That is probaly not the mages fault thoguh, more then likely the tank blows if Paralyze gets the hate.

Also don't give me the shit about mages not wanting to enfeeble, we all do to raise our enfeebling magic skill.

 

[Direwolf]

As an aditiont there is generly some sort of freindly arguement over who gets what, each wanting the most enfeebles. If they do nto want to enfeeble they are just plain lazy, being a WHM I fully apreciate their value.

Not to sound like a higher lvl dickhead but until you are in a party where no one can hit/get a spell off becuase the crab has a fucken buff that is raping us through the pants, or dealing with spells that cost 300+ MP you realy can't argue upon the sheer value of Dispel and Refresh. They are like sex... Well not realy but w/e.

 

[Jezza]

You're doing WHAT? Tell me you're only doing enfeebles other than Dia II when there is not rdm.

Enfeebling skill cap:

Lvl 60rdm/30blm = 203 (A+)
Lvl 60blm/30whm = 190 (C+)
Lvl 60whm/30blm = 190 (C)


Without any enhancing gear? Hmm..not bad...

And as far as being a refresh pimp?

OF COURSE RDM should cast it..all the time..as soon as it wears.

NO ONE is saying that. But to say that's ALL we're good for..is ignorant.