Redmages that dont refresh

[Jezza]

Not to sound like a higher lvl dickhead...

:?:

 

[Jezza]

Parties seem to hing atround Dispel cause those friecken crabs have that buff of theirs that makes them imposibale to hit. Melees can't hit magic will get resisted. Then the mages will have to work overtime to help kill the damn thing and MP will be exhausted. But hey I am sure Gravity is worth it.

:? You won't always be fighting mobs that need Dispel. And allow me to grab a drill to drive this home - NO ONE IS SAYING WE SHOULDN'T CAST THOSE 2 SPELLS!!!!! Again...read previous posts...if a RDM doesn't cast those two when needed..as well as all the other parts of the job..they aren't doing their job.

Oh and what fucken ediot gets hate with enfeebles?!!! That is probaly not the mages fault thoguh, more then likely the tank blows if Paralyze gets the hate.

Huh? Who said RDM gets hate with enfeebling magic?

Also don't give me the shit about mages not wanting to enfeeble, we all do to raise our enfeebling magic skill.

:evil: Farm...raise it on bunnies...don't use experience parties to cap your skills. It's a waste of MP and unless you're playing RDM..enfeebling is not your job any more than it is mine to nuke, other than the mb.



/em bangs her head against the wall.

 

[Devi]

Well I was in the PT, and I had PTed with said RDM earlier in the day, he was pretty good at everything but MP conserving.
In the PT with Sire he didn't refresh Sire at all, and the SMN once. I know from my days as PLD that you absolutly need refresh or else you'll die too fast or lose hate...over all he did a poor job, and then warped out.

I don't think the point of this thread was to discuss RDMs role, that is because they fill many roles, but the top priority for PTs 41+ is refresh and dispel. Neither of which he was doing.

 

[alanon]

Jezza, Dire STOP!!!!
For the love of god, I cant stand to see two people I respect so much fighting, so Ill put it all together as harmoniusly as possible.

Bad Rdm: What the OP wrote about
OK Rdm: Bare minimums of what dire wrote about
Great Rdm: Jezza's write up

Seriously, Jezza'a write up is the reason I cringe when I see a Rdm melee. Doing all that makes it IMMPOSSIBLE to melee. Seriously, there's a reason Rdm's get the fast cast trait, and it's not to chain nuke. Im not saying that you can't be a good rdm and melee, but the great one's Ive partied with, dont.

Yes, a Blm can do crowd control. Im actually pretty good at it, and macro in my enfeebling + gear for sleep. However, I would prefer that the Rdm handle the adds. Why? Escape. If sleep sticks, great! If not however, I now have aggro and good luck getting that spell off uninterupted. If the Rdm is resisted, I can still escape. Which of course is another reason Rdm shouldnt melee, tougher to do crowd control.

 

[Jezza]

Fair enough..but only cuz you said so Al :wink:

I think my ultimate point here..well..and other spots..is just that they're all interconnected parts of the job. All of the facets create RDM..it's not just one skill or anther. I refuse to prioritize said skills because someone will read that as "that's all you need to do."

In other words..and gawd I hope I can explain this...in order to be effective you need to do ALL of the RDM duties. Refresh only is as gimp as being Elvaan and subbing Mnk. Enfeeble only...as gimp as Wolfskymoon's ability to communicate...it's a total package..separating out the skills allows people to pick and choose what they think is important.

It's a total package deal..and every party is entitled to the total package.

 

[Firestreak]

If RDM is casting every needed debuff > Dia / Bio (or blm bio), slow, para, blind, gravity... I will NOT waste my MP on debuffing as WHM. It's important to keep enfeebling skill capped, but I already have mine capped from BLM. To keep capped for WHM otherwise, I'd suggest taking command of Dia2. It's the only debuff that can't be resisted hence you aren't throwing away MP on a debuff that's not going to do anything. My RDM is static and she knows to let me handle such things like haste and healing and not tap in there unless i'm in need of help. Then she's free to do her job of enfeebling and refresh and of course dispell. Of the 3 "mage" jobs, blm rdm and whm, whm has the lowest enfeebling cap and pretty much stinks at it. It's good however with BLM sub to have it capped for seal > sleep if need arises. Any enfeeble with seal seems to last a very long time.

As for RDMs who don't do their job properly... please please post their names. Stop inviting them to PT. Stop letting them leech xp to get higher level. They must learn or be left behind, period. Goes with all jobs.

 

[MajorHavoc]

Jezza, Dire STOP!!!!
For the love of god, I cant stand to see two people I respect so much fighting, so Ill put it all together as harmoniusly as possible.

Bad Rdm: What the OP wrote about
OK Rdm: Bare minimums of what dire wrote about
Great Rdm: Jezza's write up

Seriously, Jezza'a write up is the reason I cringe when I see a Rdm melee. Doing all that makes it IMMPOSSIBLE to melee. Seriously, there's a reason Rdm's get the fast cast trait, and it's not to chain nuke. Im not saying that you can't be a good rdm and melee, but the great one's Ive partied with, dont.

Yes, a Blm can do crowd control. Im actually pretty good at it, and macro in my enfeebling + gear for sleep. However, I would prefer that the Rdm handle the adds. Why? Escape. If sleep sticks, great! If not however, I now have aggro and good luck getting that spell off uninterupted. If the Rdm is resisted, I can still escape. Which of course is another reason Rdm shouldnt melee, tougher to do crowd control.

HERE HERE, Alanon!! I too cannot sit through this. You take Dire out for drinks and I'll take Jezza (out for drinks). We'll let them work out some of that aggression (whatever method works best :wink: )then we can all go and do some BCNM 50's!

 

[kriist]

Seriously, Jezza'a write up is the reason I cringe when I see a Rdm melee. Doing all that makes it IMMPOSSIBLE to melee.

I'm not attempting to start yet another war here, however, I would like to give some defense to those RDM's who choose to melee. As long as the mob doesn't have some nasty AoE, melee is rather simple. You target and attack, the game does the rest. Macro's switch my gear for every different spell and action, which includes melee and mage gear. I cast everything I need to cast, which is a lot, and swing inbetween my main priorities.

Melee or not is a personal choice, and it IS possible to be an excellent RDM and melee. I do not wish to tell others how to play their game, I only expect everyone to do the best job possible. Hopefully you will see that I intend no disrespect and that some jobs, especially RDM, can be played very well in many different ways.

 

[Golen]

Sorry, I leveled blm to 44 and all I can say is I like keeping my skills capped and I'll keep them capped no matter what, minus staff which is stuck at 123. Don't like me wasting 5mp to cast Poison? I don't really give a shit, a .1-.2 skill up from casting Poison, Bind, and the occasional Slow is well worth it to me. Other than that, yes, rdm has alot of jobs. Thank you for not bitch slapping me early on at lvl 41 when I kept screaming Refresh please because I didn't realize the importance of RDM > PLD > WHM > BLM.

 

[Jezza]

Okay okay

In my little write up expressing my opinion about how the job is best played (I'm just not great at diplomacy), I left in the bit about "waving your sword at stuff." The reason why is because, mainly, of Kriist. I have HUGE respect for him, he's helped me with a rank or 2 and my AF2...maybe other stuff when I was an uber lowbie. He melees and I've heard he's a damn good rdm from some very highly respected players.

While it's horrifyingly obvious that a) I'm not as tactful about this subject as others and b) I've decided not to do jack shit at work today...I think that the number of people complaining explains, in part, why I'm a bit defensive on the subject. My gear my not be quite what I want (note: I havn't lvled for 10 days because of this)..but I get very tired of these threads.

NOT because this stuff doesn't happen. Quite the opposite, because when I enter a party - it does seem at times that the party is just assuming I'll be horrible.




/em leans up against the wall with her arms crossed..

/em bounces her hip a bit..

/em cocks her head to the side and smirks at Majorhavoc..

"So, sailor, where, exactly, is it that you want to take me?"

 

[chpal]

Personally I think that rdm is a hard job to master but if you do everything you're supposed to its not. Ive never Pted with anyother rdms mainly because im rdm, so I havent seen anyone else's play style. This is my Rdm normal battle chart:

First part: Refresh self, Blind, gravity, Paralyze, Dia2, Slow, Refresh Pld

Second Part: Haste secondary meele first, or whoever the whm did not haste. Refresh whm

Thrid part: dispel, recast needed debuffs, refresh blm and/or drk.

Fourth part: dispel, MB burst, re-refresh myself, re-haste if needed

Fifth part (if needed): dispel, pld re-refresh,

I have macros for eveyrone on my PT:

Alt+1 = whm, Alt+2= pld, Alt+3= me, Alt+4= blm, Alt+5= drk/summoner

Thats basically my rdm cycle. So far I havent gotten complaints yet^^;

 

[Neche]

Personally, if a RDM doesn't refresh, kick them. Plain and simple. If you had an xp session, they didn't cast it, or only casted on themselves, and just sat there meleeing, kick them.

My refresh cycle started with WHM and PLD, in one macro. I took the 10seconds it took to type thier names, and I had it on macro. So I would cast that at the beginning of the fight. Then cast it on myself, then finish the blm or the other spell users. Then I would enfeeb, heal, whatever was needed. As soon as the WHM's refresh would wear, I would start my refresh cycle again. As simple as that. My cure's were on the macro where I could select the pty member.. I forget it's been awhile. This allowed me to melee. I did little to no damage being a tarutaru, but if I was running low on mp, I can just use 2seconds to disangage and rest to heal. No biggie. If the party wasn't satisfied with my melee, then just tell me. I always asked the party before we started if they minded me meleeing, usually they didn't. Most of the time, i would only melee, if I needed the skill up. Once my skill was maxed I would stop of course, cause really my maybe 100 damage a fight would not help at all... was just a good laugh for the RNG or DRK, who would do 20x more that me easily.

To conclude.. As long as a RDM can keep thier first duties first. Then go ahead and melee, your allowed to do both. Melee does not affect your spell casting, maybe by .5 of a second, but usually if someone is about to die in that .5 of a second, the RDM wouldn't be meleeing. If it gets really bad when the RDM is focusing on Stone skin, Phalanx, haste(on him/herself), blink, en- spells, then its a problem. And it should be delt with. Just please don't think that since a RDM has refresh, and dispel, DOESN'T mean that it's our only job. One party, that's how it was for me. The party just assumed that it was my only job. So do you know what I did? I just refreshed. That's all. And it took probably twice as long as it should of to defeat the mob, and all the hp was in yellow because I would not heal them. Only refresh. Good thing it took them about 2 fight to realize how much I accually affected them. So of course I went back to my usually routine and they didn't metion the fact that it took me 2seconds to recast thier refresh or buffs.. But anyway. I hope you value an old retired RDM's opinion.

 

[MajorHavoc]

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Text, typing words words blurb. Punctuation... A few letters in parenthesis. Another properly formed sentence containg yet even more WORDS!!! Words words, Blah. Typing, typing, text text and text. Words words, TEXT! Words words, text text words.

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/em leans up against the wall with her arms crossed..

/em bounces her hip a bit..

/em cocks her head to the side and smirks at Majorhavoc..

"So, sailor, where, exactly, is it that you want to take me?"

:shock:

I'm sorry, I didn't get what you said at the begining of your post but could you repeat what you said at the end?

 

[alanon]

Seriously, Jezza'a write up is the reason I cringe when I see a Rdm melee. Doing all that makes it IMMPOSSIBLE to melee.

I'm not attempting to start yet another war here, however, I would like to give some defense to those RDM's who choose to melee. As long as the mob doesn't have some nasty AoE, melee is rather simple. You target and attack, the game does the rest. Macro's switch my gear for every different spell and action, which includes melee and mage gear. I cast everything I need to cast, which is a lot, and swing inbetween my main priorities.

Melee or not is a personal choice, and it IS possible to be an excellent RDM and melee. I do not wish to tell others how to play their game, I only expect everyone to do the best job possible. Hopefully you will see that I intend no disrespect and that some jobs, especially RDM, can be played very well in many different ways.

Wow! I have to commend you. I was expecting disagreement, but I was thinking it be the usual name calling flame! Kudos to you.

I should of worded my statement in reverse. Meleeing makes it immpossible to keep up with everything on Jezza's list. I'm not saying you cant do it all, but a Rdm that plays like a mage does it much more seamlessly. I admitedly have never played as a Rdm, but as a Blm I have the ability to watch all of the various jobs. I have partied with many Rdm's, and without exception, all the best and most effective played as a mage (in my opinion).

Speaking of partying with Rdm's, Im on a sort of forced leveling freeze. How close are you to 63 Jezz? Id love to party with you sometime.

 

[Sirelrohir]

While it's horrifyingly obvious that a) I'm not as tactful about this subject as others and b) I've decided not to do jack shit at work today...I think that the number of people complaining explains, in part, why I'm a bit defensive on the subject. My gear my not be quite what I want (note: I havn't lvled for 10 days because of this)..but I get very tired of these threads.

Jezza, im sorry i wasnt tryin to put all rdm on the defensive... I was mainly just pissed at this one guy that didnt do a damn thing to help anyone.

 

[Pascal]

Okay okay

In my little write up expressing my opinion about how the job is best played (I'm just not great at diplomacy), I left in the bit about "waving your sword at stuff." The reason why is because, mainly, of Kriist. I have HUGE respect for him, he's helped me with a rank or 2 and my AF2...maybe other stuff when I was an uber lowbie. He melees and I've heard he's a damn good rdm from some very highly respected players.

Kriist is a He. :shock: Damn good thing I never hit on anyone in game.

 

[Direwolf]

Jezza, Dire STOP!!!!
For the love of god, I cant stand to see two people I respect so much fighting, so Ill put it all together as harmoniusly as possible.

Bad Rdm: What the OP wrote about
OK Rdm: Bare minimums of what dire wrote about
Great Rdm: Jezza's write up

Seriously, Jezza'a write up is the reason I cringe when I see a Rdm melee. Doing all that makes it IMMPOSSIBLE to melee. Seriously, there's a reason Rdm's get the fast cast trait, and it's not to chain nuke. Im not saying that you can't be a good rdm and melee, but the great one's Ive partied with, dont.

Yes, a Blm can do crowd control. Im actually pretty good at it, and macro in my enfeebling + gear for sleep. However, I would prefer that the Rdm handle the adds. Why? Escape. If sleep sticks, great! If not however, I now have aggro and good luck getting that spell off uninterupted. If the Rdm is resisted, I can still escape. Which of course is another reason Rdm shouldnt melee, tougher to do crowd control.

That was what I was trying to say, not flaming the RDM job here, I am flaming a RDM that is failing to do a critical element of their job. I was not saying RDMs should only Dispel and Refresh that would be just plain dumb. I know damn well what a RDM does in a PT, there is a reason I put in my search comment, "Do not bother inviting me unless there is a RDM".

Here is the bottom line I am saying without me slipping into a name calling contest, "A RDM who will not Refresh and Dispel for his party is an EXP leech, those are the spells that make them mandatory for crabs at least. Seeing as I will be stuck on crabs until lvl god knows what (Thank you crab fantasy XI... Is a clolor pallete change TO MUCH to ask?!!). Enfeebling magic alone is not enough to justify the spot that could go to say another melle job.

The enfeebling magic skills and varius RDM tasks (And said mages skill) are what distinguish a workable party from a great party.

Dispel and refresh is what distinguish me leaving my crafting in windurst to go to jeuno or telling the Party leader, <I'm sorry, I'm busy now.> If the RDM can not keep Refresh on at a reasonable rate and will not dispell or needs to eb told to Dispel constantly then they are killing the PT just as surely if I only cast my enhancing magic and did not bother casting cure.

 

[kriist]

The reason why is because, mainly, of Kriist. I have HUGE respect for him

Jezza you give me too much credit. However, thank you for the compliment.

And yes, please don't hit on me :shock:

 

[Pascal]

The reason why is because, mainly, of Kriist. I have HUGE respect for him

Jezza you give me too much credit. However, thank you for the compliment.

And yes, please don't hit on me :shock:

Could have sworn someone at Allakhazam referred to you as a she one time.

 

[Jezza]

OH fer fucks sakes..WE AGREE...

I just got pissed as hell when I read about:

No it realy is. There are 2 reasons we invite you to parties. Refresh and Dispel. This is what you can do that someone else can't do for you. If you do these two spells well a party will be quite forgiving to most other things. They are the very meaning of RDM, those two spells alone are the reason they will not raise the lvl cap past 75 because high lvls would sub RDM and RDMs would not get invited again.

Ouch. Rdm was given a kick ass spell..the essence of rdm is to enhance and enfeeble. We're not one spell..and it's rather annoying to know that parties will accept only that. It explains why some really horrible rdm's (that don't do their job) make it to 75. Because ppl won't complain as long as we cast one damn spell..wtf am I working hard for then?

** Guys I'm trying here...but this my GAWD...just because some other job that hits a mob maybe 6 times for a few hundred damage is OBVIOUS and the gradual damage enfeebling----just I give up.

Personally, if a RDM doesn't refresh, kick them. Plain and simple. If you had an xp session, they didn't cast it, or only casted on themselves, and just sat there meleeing, kick them.

Why wouldn't you? You'd kick a whm that wouldn't heal...a tank that never voked..AGREED.

Word all in caps words words... Sentence. Sentence. Text, words-words more text!

/em leans up against the wall with her arms crossed..

/em bounces her hip a bit..

/em cocks her head to the side and smirks at Majorhavoc..

"So, sailor, where, exactly, is it that you want to take me?"

:shock:

I'm sorry, I didn't get what you said at the begining of your post but could you repeat what you said at the end?

/em gives Major a come hither look..wags her finger at him..takes that one deliciously long leg and...text text text..words words words..innuendo...oo..explicit, even..xxxxxxxxxxxx...

Jezza, im sorry i wasnt tryin to put all rdm on the defensive... I was mainly just pissed at this one guy that didnt do a damn thing to help anyone.

Awww..soooo not blaming you honey...sounds like he was uber-sucky - and not in the way Major likes><

Jezza you give me too much credit. However, thank you for the compliment.

And yes, please don't hit on me :shock:

Damn...not even me :wink:

/sigh

/em turns back to Major to torture him somemore...