Announcement Reputation - The Return?

[Uzor]

A little green bar meant nothing anyway to most people.

Obviously it did to a surprising ammount of people. Can you honestly look me in the eye and tell me it didn't mean anything to the people that abused it? Why else would they work so hard to get the people they dislike in to red, and the people they like as green as possible?

Really, think about it. Why would you take your time to rate everyone you like green, and those you dislike as red, unless it ment something to you? Those people can deny it all they want, fact of the matter is that it does mean something for them. Whether it be because they need to better themselves or compensate for something else I do not know. If it ment nothing to them, they wouldn't abuse it.

No, I'm not saying people that used it actually cared about their color. I've repped posts when I think they actually contribute positively to the thread, but I also most of the time added a little note about it to let them know about it. Why? Because most of the time, the positive comment does mean something, not the green dot. The way I see it, that is the way this system is supposed to work, which I think is fine.

 

[Morcheeba]

Sucks that a few 'bad apples' ruin the whole bunch.

Can people just not grow the fuck up?

Either way, it's not coming back, I THINK I like this system although I'm unsure exactly how it's working (Miros comment on this preeze so's I can see)

I sent a 'negative' to crumpet.. just to see, but ofcourse it's on the 'backend' of the member profile I'm assuming. so w/e

I will miss the one feature where you could click on the scales priviously and see all the comments just about.

 

[Miros]

Either way, it's not coming back, I THINK I like this system although I'm unsure exactly how it's working (Miros comment on this preeze so's I can see)

What's not coming back? The old system? That's totally true. The old rep system was kinda fun but then it became an e-peen contest and anyone who says it didn't was lucky enough to tone it out. Even though this is an online forum, those who aren't trolls would hopefully care if people thought their post was decent enough that people would enjoy reading it or enjoy the advice right?

Then the contest turned to private forums where there were HAY RATE ME UP GUYZ. Hell I was part of one. So yeah, old system is gone for good and won't ever come back.

This new system that we have now is good for people who just wanna shoot a quick note without having to go through a PM or a VM. Yeah, PMs don't take too long but sometimes you read through a thread and are like "hey, that's nifty."

So uhh...yeah. Moogles can easily be replaced or taken away from user profiles if people REALLY don't like them. It's just they'd go away for all people.

 

[Crumpet]

Obviously it did to a surprising ammount of people. Can you honestly look me in the eye and tell me it didn't mean anything to the people that abused it? Why else would they work so hard to get the people they dislike in to red, and the people they like as green as possible?

Really, think about it. Why would you take your time to rate everyone you like green, and those you dislike as red, unless it ment something to you? Those people can deny it all they want, fact of the matter is that it does mean something for them. Whether it be because they need to better themselves or compensate for something else I do not know. If it ment nothing to them, they wouldn't abuse it.

No, I'm not saying people that used it actually cared about their color. I've repped posts when I think they actually contribute positively to the thread, but I also most of the time added a little note about it to let them know about it. Why? Because most of the time, the positive comment does mean something, not the green dot. The way I see it, that is the way this system is supposed to work, which I think is fine.

The question is. Do you REALLY care that much about a bar under your name? I know I don't.

 

[Myrrh]

I do. It's the only thing that gave my life meaning.

 

[Bajaratt]

I do. It's the only thing that gave my life meaning.

That's good, because you sure sucked as a whm. :biggrin:

 

[Miros]

The question is. Do you REALLY care that much about a bar under your name? I know I don't.

Tell that to the people who made sockpuppets to either leave a negative comment with the thought that it wouldn't be traced back to their normal account or the ones who made a sockpuppet to rate themselves up. ;p

 

[Hexx]

Tell that to the people who made sockpuppets to either leave a negative comment with the thought that it wouldn't be traced back to their normal account or the ones who made a sockpuppet to rate themselves up. ;p

Wow, people did that ;

And to be honest, the rating system was funny and all, but people on this forum know others well enough now where a "rep" system isnt really necessary........gotta say tho, even this new incarnation of the rep system can be abused, its just a matter of time before those types of people figure it out.

 

[Makelith]

Wow, people did that ;

And to be honest, the rating system was funny and all, but people on this forum know others well enough now where a "rep" system isnt really necessary........gotta say tho, even this new incarnation of the rep system can be abused, its just a matter of time before those types of people figure it out.

You'd be surprised what people did with the ratings system. Leave it to the internet, though.

This leaves a lot less room for that though which is one of the biggest reason Miros and I even considered putting this in. It can be abused but to a much lesser degree and there will be a much lower tolerance level since we can just move someone in to another usergroup so they can't even use the rep.

 

[Bajaratt]

Tell that to the people who made sockpuppets to either leave a negative comment with the thought that it wouldn't be traced back to their normal account or the ones who made a sockpuppet to rate themselves up. ;p

Those are the people you ban, there couldn't have been that many of them.

 

[Bajaratt]

You'd be surprised what people did with the ratings system. Leave it to the internet, though.

This leaves a lot less room for that though which is one of the biggest reason Miros and I even considered putting this in. It can be abused but to a much lesser degree and there will be a much lower tolerance level since we can just move someone in to another usergroup so they can't even use the rep.

This was suggested back when people were first whining about removing the rep system and Miros(or whoever) said it was either impossible or just too much effort. Since it's already in place, and you at least seem willing to enforce it; then you could have just brought back the rep system proper. You wouldn't have to do anything more than what you'd be doing now; only there'd be a result to rating up posts instead of just leaving a comment.

 

[Makelith]

Except that was only one of the problems of the original rep system.

 

[Miros]

Those are the people you ban, there couldn't have been that many of them.

You'd be extremely surprised.

This was suggested back when people were first whining about removing the rep system and Miros(or whoever) said it was either impossible or just too much effort. Since it's already in place, and you at least seem willing to enforce it; then you could have just brought back the rep system proper. You wouldn't have to do anything more than what you'd be doing now; only there'd be a result to rating up posts instead of just leaving a comment.

In regards to this, I was going to make the new usergroup for people who didn't want to be involved with the rep system as well. Some people didn't want to deal with the crap of a green or red dot and was going to make it so they could just PM us if they wanted to go in it or then be taken out of it. Then the whole Reeve doesn't want extra usergroups came in so that was just dead. It's not a new usergroup that was made. I prefer to call it the Read Onry usergroup. And if it persists the Perma-Banned usergroup.

 

[Bajaratt]

Except that was only one of the problems of the original rep system.

The only real problem of the original rep system was that a few people were abusing it. They did it to do various things causing what was being listed as "problems" but all stemmed from the same source, those few people who were abusing the system. The solution that was proposed was to not let those who abused it actually use the system; which you're saying you can/will do now.

Using rate up/down as a mechanism to flame someone - solved through moderation
Rate-up/down circle jerks - solved through moderation (or no rep adjustments in private forums)
Creating sockpuppets to rate up/down - solved through moderation(was done anyways)
Stalking people just to rate them down over and over - solved through moderation

What other "problem" is there that isn't going to be solved by this new ability/resolve to moderate the reputation?

 

[Makelith]

Those are all problems that were all solved by moderation. Now they just aren't problems. Its a lot more convenient for all parties involved.

Edit to add, if it was really only a few people, do you really think we would have gotten rid of the whole system? Or been so wary to bring it back?

 

[Hexx]

I like this new system, although I think it would be best suited for posts in areas such as the endgame forum or the job specific forum where the usefulness of a post can really be determined. I mean, seriously, is a flame "really" a useful post? Are responses to said flame, be they negative or positive, useful posts?

 

[Miros]

Using rate up/down as a mechanism to flame someone - solved through moderation
Rate-up/down circle jerks - solved through moderation (or no rep adjustments in private forums)
Creating sockpuppets to rate up/down - solved through moderation(was done anyways)
Stalking people just to rate them down over and over - solved through moderation

1 and 4 are only useful if the person who is being flamed/stalked actually reports it. Most of the time back in the day I found through just searching through comments on my own when I had the free time at my old job. I mean...we still have people refusing to use the report feature but then complain that nothing is done about a thread. So that's not fully solved through just moderation.

Rate up circle jerks aren't really solved through moderation either. I don't think Make and I know I won't be daily going through rep comments and it's not exactly easy to determine circle jerks.

Sockpuppets yeah, that's an issue that's fine now.

So what did the old reputation system prove? It proved if you were on the right side of the forum's bandwagon then you had positive rep. If you weren't then you had negative. Or if you had a lot of friends you had a lot of rep. Had nothing to do with post content much. The way I see it now is the rate up/circle jerks are solved since the new "rep" system won't give you any more moogles or green dots or anything. And it also helps out with the flaming/stalking. I doubt two people who are at odds would stalk the other if they can't make their dots red.

 

[Miros]

I like this new system, although I think it would be best suited for posts in areas such as the endgame forum or the job specific forum where the usefulness of a post can really be determined. I mean, seriously, is a flame "really" a useful post? Are responses to said flame, be they negative or positive, useful posts?

You may want to re-post this in the correct thread. I do agree with you and the helpful post system is customizable by forum.

 

[Bajaratt]

Those are all problems that were all solved by moderation. Now they just aren't problems. Its a lot more convenient for all parties involved.

Edit to add, if it was really only a few people, do you really think we would have gotten rid of the whole system? Or been so wary to bring it back?

It wasn't "solved by moderation," you just yanked it away(despite the poll) because you didn't want to actually do something.

I'll say it again: BAN THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ABUSING IT FROM USING REPUTATION. Punishing everyone because some people were abusing it is a stupid decision. The people who were doing wrong have learned absolutely nothing and the people who were doing nothing wrong suffer because of it.

You're saying you're willing to actually do something about it now, but so far you're don't seem willing to put in any work.

 

[Bajaratt]

1 and 4 are only useful if the person who is being flamed/stalked actually reports it. Most of the time back in the day I found through just searching through comments on my own when I had the free time at my old job. I mean...we still have people refusing to use the report feature but then complain that nothing is done about a thread. So that's not fully solved through just moderation.

If they're not reporting it, then they're not being bothered by it or noticing it; it's not a problem. You're crying wolf for people who apparently don't care.

Rate up circle jerks aren't really solved through moderation either. I don't think Make and I know I won't be daily going through rep comments and it's not exactly easy to determine circle jerks.

The circle jerks were in the private forums, so just don't allow rep in private forums and that solves a lot of the problem right there.

The way I see it now is the rate up/circle jerks are solved since the new "rep" system won't give you any more moogles or green dots or anything. And it also helps out with the flaming/stalking. I doubt two people who are at odds would stalk the other if they can't make their dots red.

One problem I have with the new "system" is that you can't see who found your posts useful. That helped with the accountability of the original reputation system, so you couldn't rate people up/down anonymously.

The way you and make are talking, apparently I was the only person using QCDN who wasn't abusing the reputation system, which I don't buy at all. I'd love to see some kind of numbers regarding how many were actually "abusing" the system.