Requiem for a Flameboard

[Peregrine]

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=27180

seems the owner of this board doesnt mind so much.. neither should u. What i'd like to know is if you are gonna end up at the flameboard on the other site.

What, you mean someone didn't reserve my name yet?
Admin and I see eye to eye sometimes, many times not. He took my starring of cursewords away ;_;

I can have a problem with the uncanny similarities even if he doesn't. I just can't play it out here. Again, this is a control issue. Not control of the boards. Control of yourself. Do you have it or do you not? Can you post like you're in real life, or not? Because if you go into an argument in real life swinging four-letter words, "it's funny how's", dripping sarcasm and one-lining busted wit, and sexual preference slurs, you're going to get knocked out in a flash or shown whatever door you walked in. Doesn't matter who you're talking to.

This was the last post from me about that forum. Watch the exercise of control. I'm not kidding.

 

[Sirelrohir]

What, you mean someone didn't reserve my name yet?
Admin and I see eye to eye sometimes, many times not. He took my starring of cursewords away ;_;

I can have a problem with the uncanny similarities even if he doesn't. I just can't play it out here. Again, this is a control issue. Not control of the boards. Control of yourself. Do you have it or do you not? Can you post like you're in real life, or not? Because if you go into an argument in real life swinging four-letter words, "it's funny how's", dripping sarcasm and one-lining busted wit, and sexual preference slurs, you're going to get knocked out in a flash or shown whatever door you walked in.

This was the last post from me about that forum. Watch the exercise of control. I'm not kidding.

well, lets hope u can actually stick to your word this time. Seen many times where u had said you were not goign to post anymore, when a few post later there u are again. and for the sake of sticking to your guns, dont feel the need to reply.

 

[Charah]

Charah come on now, that's forum posting everywhere. All you see, at best, is *this post was deleted for violation of terms* Site mods and admin are not going to leave violations up so you can know that they did indeed violate. It can't work like that. If you don't trust the mods and the admin--if you think they're deleting posts that aren't violations...I really don't see a solution to that mistrust, no matter what forum you're on.

Actually, I don't think he'd delete something that criticized him (I may be wrong though - not that we'd ever know, all we'd see is *this post was deleted for violation of terms*), but as far as things that aren't violations? Who knows? What he considers a violation, someone else might not (like that mithran fun hole thing - some would have found that offensive enough to delete).

As things stand, I'm not even sure what someone could post. Let's say that 'whm as a melee' discussion got posted again - true, you wouldn't have people calling the person who put forth the idea an idiot... (or you would, but they'd be censored, without you having any idea why - well, lol, ok... in this case you could probably figure out why ). Could you call that person's competency within the game into question without crossing the line? how about saying they're ignorant? or is that too insulting? I'm guessing that you could say that they don't understand the job without getting that censored, but if that person WAS a whm - would that be an insult? Enough to get banned?

Hell, one person I know gets insulted just by disagreeing with him.


Only Sculli knows for sure, so you'd better hope that he got up on the right side of the bed that morning.

 

[Peregrine]

Charah, your viper bite never breaks 400 damage at level 50 on mid IT CRAWLERS, and that is obviously completely unacceptable. First, your melee gear consists of no attack pieces whatsoever. None, and your ninja sub doesn't provide any attack. Second, I see 7 dexterity and 3 agility. That is insufficient for a sa/ta of adequate power. You could have 15 dexterity and it looks like it would cost you around 75k for it total. You are also eating the wrong food. When you're hitting for 0's due to the gear with no attack, all that sushi doesn't do you any good. You get no tp. It's like you missed anyway.

You should be doing 550 damage viper bites at this level on these mobs, and you have yet to break 400. That is *not* *cutting* *beans*. Snipers. Viper bite that never misses. NO.

************
Acceptable? I didn't call you gimp. Didn't call you a waste of a slot. Didn't call you an idiot. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. I know on other forums I frequent that would fly and isn't a flame.

I tell you what really annoys me about common flamers that really irks me to the point of destroying whatever contributions they or anyone around them think they made.

"it's funnny that" when there really is no humor
"funny how" when their example never happened outside their own head
"how ironic that" when it was totally expected or outright irrelevant anyway
"your on you're lolthf" when there's no way 5th grade would have let you into middleschool that broken
The one-liners. The grudgers. The marko polo'ers. All common. Very very annoying. There are no good flamers on this board. None. It is a dead art unwieldable by common internet posters. It can't be done right, so it won't be done. Good decision.

*Every last one of us is a better poster for refraining from flaming*
Think about that.

 

[Marajade]

didnt use the words, but it was implied. My question is, is what you mean any different because of how you said it?

 

[Charah]

Charah, your viper bite never breaks 400 damage at level 50 on mid IT CRAWLERS, and that is obviously completely unacceptable. First, your melee gear consists of no attack pieces whatsoever. None, and your ninja sub doesn't provide any attack. Second, I see 7 dexterity and 3 agility. That is insufficient for a sa/ta of adequate power. You could have 15 dexterity and it looks like it would cost you around 75k for it total. You are also eating the wrong food. When you're hitting for 0's due to the gear with no attack, all that sushi doesn't do you any good. You get no tp. It's like you missed anyway.

You should be doing 550 damage viper bites at this level on these mobs, and you have yet to break 400. That is *not* *cutting* *beans*. Snipers. Viper bite that never misses. NO.

************
Acceptable? I didn't call you gimp. Didn't call you a waste of a slot. Didn't call you an idiot. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. I know on other forums I frequent that would fly and isn't a flame.

So you're saying that the flamers will have to learn how to phrase their insults without violating Sculli's terms? lol


Hmmm... If I were a clueless thief & took offense to everything you said - considered it unwarrented critisism that displayed a lack of courtesy/respect... or perhaps felt that you were insinuating that I had no clue what I was doing... - I wonder if a complaint to Sculli would get it deleted.

 

[Charah]

Just as a side note - I really miss people not being able to edit their posts

 

[Peregrine]

No, I'm saying that the flamers will have to learn to not ever take it personal. Ask yourself: Am I reflecting on them as a person? If so, stop. Target the argument. Target the action. Do not target the person. Assume all people with a working internet connection and the funds to play this game are human enough to be given human decency to.

Attack the argument and you will never be moderated. Even if you don't see a difference right now, you will when people start doing it. It reads ENTIRELY different. I've been posting a long time on forums. It makes a WORLD of difference.

 

[Marajade]

Just as a side note - I really miss people not being able to edit their posts

yeah. Now people can go back and change stuff. That was one of the redeaming factors with the FB, once you said somthing you said it.

 

[Sorrowfulturnip]

One thing I'll miss about the FB is the random kirby dances I would put in right in the middle of the battlefield. Of course kirby couldn't even phase anybody as he was just ignored and tossed aside as the war raged on.

On a serious side, I myself am glad the FB has been removed. It caused a lot of bad reps within the game. There were some good arguments at times but there were many that just didn't even need to be brought up. Bad parties for example happen from time to time. Just bite it and move on. No need to make 40 pages of random babble out of of it.

 

[Charah]

No, I'm saying that the flamers will have to learn to not ever take it personal. Ask yourself: Am I reflecting on them as a person? If so, stop. Target the argument. Target the action. Do not target the person. Assume all people with a working internet connection and the funds to play this game are human enough to be given human decency to.

Attack the argument and you will never be moderated. Even if you don't see a difference right now, you will when people start doing it. It reads ENTIRELY different. I've been posting a long time on forums. It makes a WORLD of difference.

Assume that they are human enough to be given human decency....

You may be targeting the action or argument rather than the person themselves... I bet the thief still would have felt humiliated, still would have hard feelings towards the board. Onlookers would still smirk as they read your words, people would still laugh at this person, think of him as a nub that they wouldn't want to PT with.


But if this new type of flame is what will be permitted.... well, I have no doubt we'll be seeing it pop up all over the forums, as people master the art.

 

[Sneakypants]

Just when I think all the hairs have been split...

 

[Braydon]

Assume that they are human enough to be given human decency....

You may be targeting the action or argument rather than the person themselves... I bet the thief still would have felt humiliated, still would have hard feelings towards the board. Onlookers would still smirk as they read your words, people would still laugh at this person, think of him as a nub that they wouldn't want to PT with.


But if this new type of flame is what will be permitted.... well, I have no doubt we'll be seeing it pop up all over the forums, as people master the art.

I gotta agree with this. It maybe more eloquent, but it won’t be more civil. If I was the thf in your example, I would take it personal. Your not pointing out how to improve, just everything I’m doing wrong, and where my char is gimped.

And btw Peregrine- As someone helping with the other site, I don’t appreciate being labeled as “The people who know they can't stop calling each other pathetic, worthless, idiot beggar fanboy moron fools-of-turd's-corn-drippings”.

 

[Zaltana]

6 pages.....

 

[Sculli]

Please continue to address current issues in the The Future of QCDN thread.

Thanks Cubs for making this one, I believe some good has come out of it, but at this point it's at a dead end.

I will leave it open, though I won't post to this thread anymore.

 

[Peregrine]

The difference between "you're a fool" and "you're being foolish" is huge. One statement is immutable. The other demands an explanation. I've been on boards where flames are allowed. I've been on many boards, some of them gaming, where non-flaming is enforced. Nonflaming is unbelievably easy to enforce. For more than three years I've seen the difference. Not going personal is a tier of its own, and until you're used to posting like that, you really won't appreciate how different it sounds to someone reading it--someone who isn't looking at the name and just trying to come up with an argument against it.

Unfortunately this change paves the way for trolls becoming immune to flames. Dealing with flames is easy, because even if some think they're gray now, flames really are not. There are only about 12 ways you can insult someone, and once the mods have seen it a while, they've seen it all. But dealing with trolls is harder. That takes community user support, first to let mods know about it. Second, the second you back up your argument you've exited the world of trolling. Now trolling rules are something QCDN is completely unfamiliar with, but expect it to have to deal with trolling FORMALLY soon. You can't stop flamers without addressing trolls looking to make someone slip up.

A flame is a personal insult regardless of who the subject is. Personal. Not on an argument. Not on an action. Do they reflect on the person? They can. Are they that person? No, they are not. The more you type the more you flame. There is never an excuse for flaming.

A troll is a post solely intending to offend or annoy. If it has no content and it's antagonistic, it's trolling. The less you type the more you troll.

This is not difficult and has been a part of forumgoing for years now. It's time QCDN stepped up and caught up to the current standards instead of lagging behind in the dark ages. You would be surprised how not splitting hairs it is.

 

[Sneakypants]

The difference between "you're a fool" and "you're being foolish" is huge. One statement is immutable. The other demands an explanation.

A flame is a flame is a flame.

"You are a fool" versus "You are being a fool" is really just semantics when you consider that both are flames and both are merely opinions, even if they may come off stated as facts.

 

[Lokkin]

But there is a difference between "you're a fool" and "you're being foolish" you're a fool is an outright insult, you're being foolish is critisizing the way someone acts, not insulting them.

 

[Sneakypants]

But there is a difference between "you're a fool" and "you're being foolish" you're a fool is an outright insult, you're being foolish is critisizing the way someone acts, not insulting them.

And that difference is semantics. Splitting hairs.
Both are opinions, and both are flames.
Are we allowed to flame or not?


Let's change ther verbage (STRICTLY FOR THE SAKE OF BEING BLUNT, SCULLI, JUST TO ILLUSTRATE)....

Fool is a little too nice of a word, but it's still a flame.


If the verbage is different, more flame-like, as in the ever popular (which I have never used until this example) word "fuckstick".



"You are a fuckstick"
"You are being a fuckstick"


The point that it's really just semantics stands out even more as the harshness of the language increases. The gray area between criticism and insult become even more gray.


Criticism and insult...
Makes me think of, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Unless the criticism is truly constructive, it's still going to resemble a flame in every way. We are either allowed to flame or we are not...Unless SPECIFICS are provided, some degree of confusion about this "rule" will continue to exist.

 

[Sabia]

I"m sorry Sneaky but fuckstick does not describe a state of being. The word 'fuckstick' in itself is a dergetory word. Foolish on the other hand discribes a way of acting. Example, I parked too close to the Stop sign on Friday and got a ticket, this was foolish as I kinda guessed I was too close. Does this make me a fool? Probably not. It was one momentary lapse in what has otherwise been a pretty spot on parking record. Fool indicates you do such things on an almost constant basis in order to gain such a title. While being foolish can be applied to a fool - it's more a way of saying "Well gee, that momentary lapse of judgement/play/etc was silly"

Kinda like you have Vanilla Ice cream and Vanilla-ish ice cream

You can tell someone they're being foolish without thinking that they are a fool. You can't imply that someone is being a fuckstick without thinking they are a fuckstick, period. It's an aggressive word.