Feedback Restrictions on social groups

[Dejavu]

First of all we should go over my minor issue which is where are you supposed to advertise for a social group. Given the possible choices linkshell recruitment was by far the best choice of where to try and get new members for the group as I am actually trying to recruit people.

As I said however I do not believe that this point is important just there should be a place to give information about what the SG is about without people having to look for it.

Now as to the important part of this conversation.

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=67650

In the past I have stated several times that I am not a fan of the way that the flameboard is moderated and have continuously asked less moderation on the flameboard. Now lets outline the issues with moderation on the flameboard and why this should be a viable option for the site.

Thread has run its course – This is an opinion one that not all people share most of the time
Certain people don’t like the flameboard. – don’t like it don’t sign up for the group
It degenerates into PC+1 – this is allowed within a social group
Certain topics are too controversial to talk about – Opinion again
People don’t like to be talked about behind their backs – the group is open to anyone who wishes to see it. It is not invite only like was stated in the flame about it.

SG is open to anyone who wants to join all you have to do is apply (not sure if i have to approve it or not) If you dont like the content in the group... Leave the group and be quiet.

It is not intended to be a place to talk about people behind their backs because as I stated no one who wishes to join will not be turned down.

The SG would be a membership yet public social group.

Arguments against it:

We have a flameboard already. Social Groups are not exempt from the flamebaiting rule at all even if you say it's okay to flamebait. Them's the rules and they are the same as when there were hidden forums.

Since you have basically said that this social group is all about flaming and flamebaiting, it's going to be axed. If you want to bring up any questions about it in the S&F board, feel free. But other then that, don't expect us to encourage making a place where you can go and start randomly flaming people. It wasn't allowed back during hidden forums, and it's not gonna be allowed now in social groups. I'll leave this open in case you have any choice words for me.

Yes we have a flameboard already… one where you post anything controversial and your post is edited or deleted. The post derails and it is deleted. If the moderators want to be retarded douchebags they can change the topic of you post and completely devalue any point that you were trying to make.

Sneakypants for example decided that my title which was a serious discussion warranted getting the title “Who will Guard the Guards? OMG” after it was locked and I was told that you guys would be unwilling to reopen it. This kind of worthless overmodderation is the bullshit that leads me to desire a largely unmoderated group in the first place. If I wanted the thread to be named “Who will Guard the Guards? OMG” I would have fucking named it that.

Beyond this the moderation on the flameboard is largely inconsistent. Skaw has an excellent point about this and my picture that I posted in the E whore thread but his complaints were also completely unheard.

I am not asking everyone to join. The only reason I sent out any invitations at all was for the fact that its hard to have a meaningful conversation when there are only 3 people who are members.

Another thing is that when I asked for a private flameboard I was told by Miros to wait for 3.8 and I could make a Social Group rather than getting a forum due to space issues. This was 3 months ago and I respected that reasoning and shut up about this topic for 3 months in waiting for 3.8 to come out and see how well it worked. When I asked for this I was told by Miros who has conveniently forgotten this fact that in my social group I could have anything I wanted as long as it did not break any rules. How is flamebaiting in a group where you agree to be baited against the rules. I assume that he was just trying to get me to be quiet at the time but still I have been patient for 3 months as this upgrade was being implemented.

Am I trying to make a free for all where no one is responsible for anything that they say? Nope. In the recruitment post I stated quite clearly.

Be prepared to live with whatever you post as it will very likely be used against you.

The invites were kinda random I just clicked on the site member list until I got tired of doing it.

It is also stated as a blanket statement for the site that flamebaiting is not allowed. What is the harm in flamebaiting when the people getting baited agreed to it by joining the group. Its kinda hard to bait people who cant read the post and its kinda hard to be a member without agreeing to the rules which include the possibility of being baited.

Sneaky said something that I found somewhat entertaining

Everyone is responsible for the choices they make.

The problem is that you are not allowing people to make their own choices as to if they want to be in a group with these rules or not. I admit that this group is not for everyone… hell this group may not be for half the people on the site but it is not intended to be.

Also I did not say that the forum was only about flamebaiting and flaming in fact I also stated that it was a place for controversial conversations like religion, politics, etc. The fact is that I will allow any direction the people wish to take rather than moderating the conversations constantly and needlessly.

Most of the people’s reasoning for not wanting it is that they don’t want a place where people can bitch about other people in private… but it is not private… anyone can join and defend themselves.

How is this any different than the flameboard already.

You have to join the site to be able to read the flameboard. Even if you are not a member of the site people can still make posts about you. This group you have to be a member of the site and the group (contrary to what people believe anyone can join) and even if you are not a member of the group you can be talked about. How is this any different than the flameboard with that in mind other than the rules and lack of moderation?

Problems people have with it
Its private – no actually it is not anyone can join if they choose and I even tried to advertise it so that people wouldn’t think I was trying to hide anything. The only reason I invited people was in an effort to get more people to join quickly.
There is already a flameboard – no the flameboard we have gets topics closed and the moderators decide what is reasonable or not instead of the people who are posting.
I don’t want people talking shit behind my back – 2 options, join and they are talking shit to you or don’t join and deal with it.

Reasons why it should be allowed.
It is a place for the people who are tired of having their posts edited and deleted to post what they want to post.
It is a place to talk about topics that the moderation staff doesn’t like to have people talk about like back when the prop 8 thing was going on or that one chick who was a minor wanted to move in with the older guy or something.

Please tell me why people who wish to join this group are not allowed to do so when people who do not wish to join the group are in no way forced to do so.

I am sorry but I do not need a babysitter to tell me what is acceptable to post.

 

[Dejavu]

Examples of overmoderation

The point of moderation is not to express your opinion but to apply the rules.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Solution: Make your own damn forum.

 

[Malagra]

I am sorry but I do not need a babysitter to tell me what is acceptable to post.

Actually you do. That's why there are rules about content that is or is not appropriate. The rules wouldn't have had to be made if they weren't necessary. Unless you're implying you're better than everyone else, and combining that with the fact that you're trying to make a place that circumvents the rules and to make derogatory comments about people, it paints quite the unflattering picture.

And essentially, you're blackmailing people to join your group. "Join, or you can't see what our super secret illuminati group is saying about you"

And if you don't want the rules to apply, what's to stop everyone (and I mean everyone) from spamming your group, and doing all sorts of things the rules normally stop? Oh right, nothing.

Here's a giant Social Group called QCDN. You can apply, and unless you've done something bad against it in the past, you won't get turned down. And if you don't like the way it works, or the content on it, you can leave and be quiet.

Seriously, QCDN isn't the be-all and end-all. Go to a free forum making site, and make your own. Anything on QCDN that isn't a PM, gets moderated by rules that apply to every other section of the site. Go make your own unmoderated forum, and when you come back, apologize for threads you've made like this.

 

[Miros]

Issue one: Where to post social groups!

If it's a linkshell on the game that's looking for new members, linkshell recruitment. If it's just a hobby social group (ie divers) then the lounge.

Issue two: Once again you are bringing up on the moderation of the flameboard.

Deal with it.

Issue three: Social groups and flameboard #2.

No. Final answer.

Thread is going to be locked now. There's nothing more to discuss, no opinion that will be changed on the moderation team, and nothing you can say to persuade. You're choices are to deal with the rules that are in place, break the rules in place which will most likely result in a ban, leave the forum altogether, make your own forum.

Take your pick!