Rip, Rig, Render

oh now i get it. thats Tachi:Gekko's animation.

still good job. :)
 
Last edited:
I had to finish up a flash project the past few days so I haven't been able to work on much lol. My little taru project is coming along ok so far, but some coats and the hands have constantly been a minor pain in the neck. One polygon here seperated, knuckle guards falling into the fingers, random polygons completely unattached in odd locations spiking through other polygons with a smooth. Stuff you kinda have to look a little harder for but bother me nonetheless.

Yeah I tried modelling fenrir before too and personally didn't really like the way his texture comes through... he looks kinda rocky rather than furry :\ And those lines that are on him... looks like he's got veins popping out in wierd places.

I started to mess around with actually putting some more lighting around a model, but I obviously haven't figured out how to set everything up yet (I'd been using omni lights before, so figuring out the target lights and decay settings is taking a bit of getting used to). While I'm at it, I have a small question. Even with the alpha source set and an opacity map set for the textures of the monster in the following picture - you still see the shine coming across from the transparent polygons. Is there something I have to set somewhere to fix that or is this just a problem I'm probably getting through 3dsmax itself?


In case it's not obvious - the transparency I'm talking about is on his back (right hand side of the model on the screen). There are polygons underneath the face that are perfectly transparent and don't produce an obscure shine (of course it's in a shadow too), but the ones on the back receiving a large shine from the specular levels I set and the lighting I put up show the shine from the whole polygon and not just what wasn't transparent.

BTW: Finally figured out why CS3 has been fighting me tooth and nail over this Alpha Channel issue with Targa. Apparently I actually have to save a selection with the alpha area as a channel first. It won't let me just delete pixels and save the alpha channel that's visible from that.
 
I see you have Bump mapping a new shader and your experimenting with lighting. It's looking good. What is it with you 3DS Max guys and the blue backgrounds anyway ?

You should look into making the edges of the shadows softer too. If it's ray-traced shadows it'll be more demanding to tweak.


I had to finish up a flash project the past few days so I haven't been able to work on much lol. My little taru project is coming along ok so far, but some coats and the hands have constantly been a minor pain in the neck. One polygon here seperated, knuckle guards falling into the fingers, random polygons completely unattached in odd locations spiking through other polygons with a smooth. Stuff you kinda have to look a little harder for but bother me nonetheless.

I've seen some amazing things done in flash. I never got into it though. Do you practice animation and also going to learn it in school ?

When surfaces start to cross other surfaces i just take the vertices's and pull them in, or blow away more faces like we do.

What i do for body armor that breaks, i duplicate the armor then delete the entire duplicated mesh except for that surface that causes it to break (In other words, I leave behind that flat surface). Then i take the original mesh and delete that surface i saved on the duplicated mesh that causes the break. I then restore the duplicates position back to 0 so it falls back into place. Basically, there is no merge between the polygons in that area, so it will smoothen properly without the unwanted deformation.

It's ok to break apart the pieces for easy access to what your tweaking on the mesh. All you need to do is restore the axis back to 0. One thing I enjoy about 3D is how we get to implement mathematics and get great results.

Motarrisu said:
Yeah I tried modelling fenrir before too and personally didn't really like the way his texture comes through... he looks kinda rocky rather than furry :\ And those lines that are on him... looks like he's got veins popping out in wierd places.

Just don't bring Fenrir too close to the cam. Technically, when making textures for high end CG you want the textures to be the same resolution as the render itself. It needn't be if the texture will never go too close to the camera. Fenrir's is really harsh. Ifrit on the other hand I think can probably go really close to the camera with the bump map and the specularity running.

Motarrisu said:
I started to mess around with actually putting some more lighting around a model, but I obviously haven't figured out how to set everything up yet (I'd been using omni lights before, so figuring out the target lights and decay settings is taking a bit of getting used to). While I'm at it, I have a small question. Even with the alpha source set and an opacity map set for the textures of the monster in the following picture - you still see the shine coming across from the transparent polygons. Is there something I have to set somewhere to fix that or is this just a problem I'm probably getting through 3dsmax itself?

Not just a problem in Max. It happens to me too, with both my render engines might i add. It's been plaguing the pet Wyvern's Mohawk time and time again, and on this last rendering i did, it hit me again. I'm lazy with the Wyvern but if you want to get rid of that there are 2ways i can think of doing it.

1. After smoothening the mesh, split the faces (Draw new edges) along the wanted parts, then delete the faces. (That is actually a terrible thing to do which is why i suggest doing it after you smoothen the mesh)

2. Crank up the Cosine power. This is also a terrible thing to do cause when you turn this up, your specularity will gradually vanish. A shader with specularity control like the one your using (Phong in Maya terms), seem to be the only one that do this.

A note on these types of models, they wern't really intended for what we're doing with them which is why they lack good quality textures and have this transparency originally made for this .dds file type. This is my first time ever ripping this really. I usually make things from scratch.

Motarrisu said:

In case it's not obvious - the transparency I'm talking about is on his back (right hand side of the model on the screen). There are polygons underneath the face that are perfectly transparent and don't produce an obscure shine (of course it's in a shadow too), but the ones on the back receiving a large shine from the specular levels I set and the lighting I put up show the shine from the whole polygon and not just what wasn't transparent.

I'd go with option 1. For the character models I resorted to using a basic Lambert materal for the head and hair, so i wouldn't come accross this issue. But for some reason, it happening like a phenomenon on 2 characters right now.

Motarrisu said:
BTW: Finally figured out why CS3 has been fighting me tooth and nail over this Alpha Channel issue with Targa. Apparently I actually have to save a selection with the alpha area as a channel first. It won't let me just delete pixels and save the alpha channel that's visible from that.

After I'm done cutting away i just not include the alpha channel and save as. Things might be different for us in regards to making targa files cause I'm using Photoshop 7.

A quick note on the Targa file. They rule for video. When you get into batch rendering you'll have many options for output. Go with Targa. You can render out a project in separate passes and layer them back together with Targa. Batch render with anything else and you might regret it. Trust me.

.
.
.

Here i had trouble with the belt. those things hanging off the belt was having that transparency issue. you can notice the difference in specularity with the belt and rest of the armor. I increased the cosine on it and it solved the problem. Just lost specularity. It's ok cause no one would ever notice if i never brought it up v.v

Solan1.jpg


Solan2.jpg


Might have to build shelves or steps or something soon.
Group14.jpg


Moving onto the next later on tonight. I never miss an episode of Survivor. ( '-')
 
Oh shiiit that's amezing <333
 
I think I am king of the party. I have a crown.

Looking better and better every time Ant ^^
 
I'm glad '-'

Motarrisu: I've taken some snapshots of the process i use to fix breaking of the mesh. Here they are.

1. I duplicate the mesh in question twice. I've selected the problematic faces in the image.
dfznfdb.jpg


2. See how i deleted the entire mesh in the back leaving behind the pesky surfaces. The mesh in front of it, I've removed the troubled surfaces, so it's hollow.
dghsdrtrh.jpg


3. Delete the original. Then translate the positions of the duplicates back to 0 so it falls back into place.
ethrtrhyjm.jpg


That's it. for this one a part of the bottom was poking out, I just simply tucked it in. Same can be said for the rough corners left behind, just bend them and you'll get a decent arc. Because this is just for pose and render it's ok to do that, but for animation you'd want a completely hollow mesh. It works for these in a low poly state and it would for the higher tessellation but it's causes a break in that case.
gnxdhfhymf.jpg


.
.
.

I've implemented particles into the mix for your long over due render. Usually making things like fire is not really my thing. I've leaned towards Maya's Fluid FX to achieve an explosion. Despite it's appearance it only has glow in terms of light so i put a point light in place to generate the orange light in the scene. Damn thing also takes forever to render out in Mental Ray, I rendered out a small piece and it looked pretty much identical to the stock render engines output, so i rendered the explosion in a separate pass using the stock engine, then re-composited it back into the scene which was rendered with Mental Ray. A shot in the dark yes, but iS GooD v.v *conceited*
Motarrisu.jpg


Another modification to the lighting. Definatly one of the great group renders minus Solans hair which is being a tech nightmare at the moment. At least the Wyverns Mohalk is showing less signs of this unwanted refraction.
Group15.jpg

.
.
.
Can't believe it's Friday already. Ex is coming down tonight and I'll be out on Sunday. I'll probably be exhausted on Saturday, and I'd like to complete 3 more models before I head out. If i don't make it on Sunday then Monday for sure, but i hate to miss deadlines even when i make them up myself. I'm babbling.
 
Last edited:
Y'know, I just realized - Somethings going on with an alpha channel on a few of your models.



Looking back through older pictures, sometimes the channel is there, sometimes the channel is shadowing onto textures behind it, and in some cases the whole polygon is there.

I finally made a group picture of all the taru models I've been messing around with. I used the picture to do a bit more playing around with lighting.



I've been looking around for tutorials and noticing that there are whole tutorials about mental ray lighting specifically. Kinda wondering if I should be focusing in just figuring out basic lighting techniques first before worrying about Mental Ray aspects.
 
ant about the elf and the wyren I think i understand what you're talking about

the belt with the straps coming down doesn't reflect as well and seems a bit rigid and stiff.

It seems that you can pose them in any sort of manner but can you alter or bend the material to suit the request?

I may have another request coming soon for kay's gear and i'll give you a bit of free rein for a challenge under an obscure guideline ok?
 
Y'know, I just realized - Somethings going on with an alpha channel on a few of your models.



Looking back through older pictures, sometimes the channel is there, sometimes the channel is shadowing onto textures behind it, and in some cases the whole polygon is there.

One of them i just left alone, and the others are indeed shadowing. I might as well assign those surfaces not to cast shadows. Then I'd have to create surfacing to hide behind the texture and add an invisible targa file to cast shadows for it. There are a few others you haven't pointed out. They are well hidden lol.

Motarrisu said:
I finally made a group picture of all the taru models I've been messing around with. I used the picture to do a bit more playing around with lighting.


I took a long stare at your progress and I'm amazed how fast you advanced. I think your potential is threw the roof for lighting. I see your using what we call in Maya a fractal bump for the surfacing of the stage. I don't think it's necessary to use the fractal and the image would look better without it. Especially those soft shadows. Are the depth map shadows or Ray traced shadows ?


Motarrisu said:
I've been looking around for tutorials and noticing that there are whole tutorials about mental ray lighting specifically. Kinda wondering if I should be focusing in just figuring out basic lighting techniques first before worrying about Mental Ray aspects.

Mental Ray and Render man are the Coke and Pepsi of render engines in my opinion. Even though i never used Render man i think highly of it from what some of my colleagues say about it. Mental Ray in my opinion can mash Render man cause of it's freak ability to refract light which makes it what it is. That doesn't just happen though, you need to activate Mental ray's attributes for each light in the scene and tweak them, and in most cases lean towards Mental Ray shader materials. When you do get into Mental Ray, take note that Mental Ray Phong and Lambert shaders suck balls, so use the stock ones instead. (sorry for not knowing the Max definition of those shader materals, maybe for Max those shaders are ok) Mental Ray will challenge the digital artist in you more than your stock render engine. (You probably already know that) Mental Ray is a wonderful solution for caustics (a damn nice novelty minus the hellish render time), and it's even more insane with the ability to add or reduce photons in the scene for a more vivid or less vivid lighting session.

Mental Ray for me is not as fast as the stock render engine. The avatars I rendered with the stock render engine, you might notice it appears to be sharper than the Mental Ray rendering, and I'm not even using depth of field in those. I think Mental Ray was designed to compensate for it's damn slow calculations for Motion Blur. I learned that the hard way for the last project i animated. I spent days lighting the scene with Mental Ray, and when i applied motion blur i found out it takes forever for Mental Ray to render out Motion Blur even when set at 2D a little over an hour per frame. For high end CG you want motion blur or else you're project will look like stop motion. Choppy + no motion blur. Mental Ray does have a shader that can provide motion blur that is said to be fast, and it can be applied as an invisible layer I'm guessing. I let it go though. And turned to my basic lighting skills cause Maya's stock engine can do motion blur like it's nothing.

If the school you go to is anything like mine, they will not teach you how to use Mental Ray, and how to do things like dynamic hair fire water fur and a list of other bitch ass things. What's most important is the basics, and even when the most advanced solutions are into play, sometimes the basics will bail you out of the most frustrating jams. That slow motion blur issues would have cosed me 3 months of non stop batch rendering for 35 seconds of animation. That is unacceptable. Mental Ray for Maya has as satellite feature that can utilize up to 8 PC single core processors to work in parallel. That is a massive boost. Unfortunately i don't have that many PCs, so it was best for me to batch render with the stock engine.

Over all I'd suggest learning the basics before you get into Mental Ray, cause you "will" eventually come across a problem with Mental Ray without being able to find an answer. The basics lighting skills are really valuable. I don't think it would matter if you leaned how to use Mental Ray so long as you understand the reasons for what makes photo realistic rendering turn out.
 
ant about the elf and the wyren I think i understand what you're talking about

the belt with the straps coming down doesn't reflect as well and seems a bit rigid and stiff.

You understand

I increased the cosine power, meaning the specularity won't be as strong, and i set the reflectivity to 0. (Specularity being the white gleam on the texture in this case)

K. Ishitar said:
It seems that you can pose them in any sort of manner but can you alter or bend the material to suit the request?

I can't pose them cause i never rigged them. i can bend them up but that would be a sloppy thing to do without a skeleton, or joints of you will.

I altered the material. That part is actually on what can be described as a paper thin sheet with transparency in between each of those hanging things on the belt. The issue was it specularity appearing on the invisible part of that thin sheet. Bump mapping for software rendering is really that good.

K. Ishitar said:
I may have another request coming soon for kay's gear and i'll give you a bit of free rein for a challenge under an obscure guideline ok?

The way is see it, Kayleen's would have to be obscure. I was checking out a FFXI dat site the other day and there are bodies for Elvaan Females that have more curve to them, some of them in custom bikini like DRK AF. I'm up for a challenge but no custom poses. Building a joint system and having to make the mesh bend and flex properly is a bit too much work while considering others.
 
my apologies then I assumed you had the skeleton mesaurements(read: in animated movies they use a skeleton model for all characters and model based off that skeleton otherwise it would take months to make each character, this was done in the Incredibles) and you were able to pose them in any manner such as the way you posed zaltana's smn in an unusual but unique and eye-catching way.

speaking posing lightly as being able to put any character in any sort of ws or emote, should've clarified.

still thinking and somewhat busy i'll get back to you on this though.
 
Unfortunately, the only program I know of so far that can pull out skeleton information is VRS (Virtual Reality Studio Guide - Download)

I don't know if it can export this information to Maya or Max though as the guide written only mentions exporting back to a .dat file, so that would be another issue.

Zaltana's SMN is actually positioned at frame 35 (38? i checked that a while ago ><) of Tachi: Gekko's animation. The only thing repositioned in the picture is the weapon, since there's no bending needed to move it.

Just curious, how did you have Carbuncle glow in that picture a couple pages back. I was trying to adjust some models to have some appropriate shadows for this header I was working on for my linkshell's website (kinda going a little outside their guidelines for it, but I was just messing around and still getting a feel for lighting). Background was provided, but I wasn't working with the text in view at the time of rendering, so the light on the taru model might be a little off since I actually had to move him and carbuncle over for the image.

MotarrisuHeader.jpg


I just didn't quite know how to get the glow. Only thing I could think of was that I needed a shadow/matte plane near carbuncle or I needed to figure out fog (which I haven't researched yet). I did put an omni light inside of carbuncle to at least give the impression that he was giving off some light.
 
Woow, did you have to travel inside a KB's uterus to find a Behemoth that small!?

Lol jk nice sig, looks great :D
 
Just curious, how did you have Carbuncle glow in that picture a couple pages back. I was trying to adjust some models to have some appropriate shadows for this header I was working on for my linkshell's website (kinda going a little outside their guidelines for it, but I was just messing around and still getting a feel for lighting). Background was provided, but I wasn't working with the text in view at the time of rendering, so the light on the taru model might be a little off since I actually had to move him and carbuncle over for the image.

MotarrisuHeader.jpg


I just didn't quite know how to get the glow. Only thing I could think of was that I needed a shadow/matte plane near carbuncle or I needed to figure out fog (which I haven't researched yet). I did put an omni light inside of carbuncle to at least give the impression that he was giving off some light.

In Maya it's a Maya shader node thing. All i had to do was open up the attribute editor for the shader with the texture on it, then look under the special FX section, there you'll see a slider to increase the glow attribute, or punch in the desired value. A low value usually is bright enough, and it can blow out in the scene very easily.

Like the glow in the smoke particle cloud, a shader assigned to glow will not emit light.

One last thing when rendering with glow attributes running. While the frame is rendering the glow will not appear until the render is complete. So if you have been canceling your rendering that seem to fail to glow when they should, let it finish and see how it turns out.
 
Oh nice I like the added DRG Sol in there.
 
That new one makes me want to level my bst some more :\.

Nice job Ant:)
 
Back
Top