Roles for dancer, where do we go now?

[Inunabe]

Ok, first off I want to ask how everyone plays their dancer. Since dancer seems to be such a varied job, getting an idea how people choose to play/gear it is important.

Secondly, here's the big question, what exactly does SE intend for us to do with DNC? From this, I'm talking specifically about the new Relic gear and group two merits. It seems as if with the new gear, and a few of the new merits, dnc now has the ability to also be a sort of tank/healer person. Seemingly a lot like a pld. Fan Dance is more or less Sentinel in a nutshell, except the dmg reduc reduces with each hit. Add that to the Closed Position or w/e that one is with increased eva and acc while in front of the mob....not to mention we now have a meditate style ability with No Foot Rise.

Is anyone interested in this? Do we think SE is crazy?

I personally love doing things that go against the norm. I hate /nin for most jobs, and various other things.

I love playing my dnc as a hardcore healer instead of the typical mix melee/healer, but this new tanking aspect is tempting....god knows how well it'll work out though.

Let's get a good discussion going about this, try and keep out the simple no it won't work BS. If you have a valid argument, let's hear it and discuss.

 

[Urat]

Seems SE is trying to make a dancer what you want it to be...

Here's our sets of af+1 and relic/+1

AF+1:

Dnc. Casaque +1
Body DEF:39 HP+25 STR+5 DEX+5
"Waltz" potency +10% Enmity-2
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC74

Dancer's Shoes +1
Feet DEF:15 HP+12 STR+3 AGI+3
Attack+5 Evasion+5
Increases "Jig" duration
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC74

Dancer's Tiara +1
Head DEF:19 HP+15 DEX+4 CHR+4 Enmity-2
Increases "Samba" duration
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC74

Dnc. Bangles +1
Hands DEF:16 HP+17 DEX+4 AGI+4 Attack+5
Increases "Step" accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC74

Relic: Etoile (No idea wtf etoile means... *skips off to wikipedia*

Etoile Casaque
Body DEF:39 DEX+4
Accuracy+10 Attack+12
Enhances "Violent Flourish" effect
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC75

Etoile Shoes
Feet DEF:16 HP+15 DEX+4 Accuracy+3
Increases "Step" accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC73

Etoile Tiara
Head DEF:18 HP+20 STR+4 Attack+5
"Waltz" potency +5%
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC72

Etoile Bangles
Hands DEF:17 HP+15 VIT+3 AGI+3
Attack+5 Evasion+5 Enmity+2

Etoile+1

Etoile Tiara +1
Head DEF:19 HP+20 STR+5 Attack+7
"Waltz" potency +5%
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC75

Etoile Shoes +1
Feet DEF:17 HP+20 DEX+4 Accuracy+5
Increases "Step" accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC75

Etoile Casaque +1
Body DEF:40 DEX+4
Accuracy+12 Attack+14
Enhances "Violent Flourish" effect
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC75

Dancer's Tights +1
Legs DEF:29 HP+15 VIT+5 CHR+5
Accuracy+5 Attack+5 Enmity-1
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
DNC74


My assesment:

The Relic gear seems to stack emity, haste, and curing. Personally, my fav peieces so far are etoile tights +1 (haste +3% to replace my barbossa's) and the Etoile Casque +1, violent flourish, acc+12, att+14, so it's better than the antares harness.

So it seems that SE has made relic for tanking dancers, AF+1 for macroing in, and the DD would bes be combo of dusk/other generic pieces.

But in all honesty, I seriously think SE expects us to be... tanks

First off, our cures generate 10x the hate of normal cures... We have a pseudo provoke, a stun ja, +emnitty/vit relic, and now a obvious tank JA

Yet we also have haste/acc/att relic, a powerful double attack ja, WS spam JA, DD style traits, and haste samba...

So what are we? Optional. We can do whatever we want, just depends on individual choice I guess... Hell it may be possible to be a DDtank, using cures on ourselves to keep hate (no problem there, we get hate when we don't even want it...) while WSing and keeping Fan dance up...

More imporantly, wouldn't it have had made more sense to have made them fan jig and saber jig? We only have 2 jigs atm so they should've filled them out to balance with rest of our jas... meh, can't complain, hax jas are hax =D

 

[Urat]

ok here's what wiki says:

Étoile is French for "star", it can also mean:

stuff

moar stuffs

other stuffs

Ballerina. Well I guess we're wearing a ballerina's outfit... Which actually means, according to wiki, "The top level acquirable by a dancer"

Cool

 

[Tristam Green]

I wouldn't say that Urat. The defense ratings don't stack up as tank-worthy gear really, and there's only Enmity+ on one piece, which would only really help if you were say, subbing Thief and trying to mitigate hate with SATA (maybe?)

From the first glance, tanking as a dancer looks as if it will be every bit as dangerous as it already is.

 

[Urat]

I wouldn't say that Urat. The defense ratings don't stack up as tank-worthy gear really, and there's only Enmity+ on one piece, which would only really help if you were say, subbing Thief and trying to mitigate hate with SATA (maybe?)

From the first glance, tanking as a dancer looks as if it will be every bit as dangerous as it already is.

Yeah, maybe...

Wait, vit waltzes too, right?

Maybe the vit gear is just to make self cures more effective then =/

If anything, it's nice gear for those moments when the tank loses hate and the mob turns around a looks at you... OH SHI-!

 

[xRiokox]

I really don't know myself what SE wanted us to be lol. I used to party on my DNC before the level sync thing and I always played healer/support. Now I've just been getting my levels doing campaign 'cause I never got a single invite after the level synch and I really didn't feel like making parties XD (I know sometimes I can be that lazy >.>) and I play the DD job, healing myself ocasionally to survive.

I don't think we have enough attributes to be a full time tank, I think we're still squishy, even though we have a lot of tools to generate hate. Although our evasion helps us... I don't know, now I feel more like a Ninja(somewhat) or a RDMthief wannabe tank. XD I don't know, I'm so confused on what our role is now.

/goes crazy

 

[Tristam Green]

Now I've just been getting my levels doing campaign

I really, really, truly believe that SE made Dancer the absolute Campaign exp-able job.

Things to look for:

1) Spells to buy? No.
2) Armor that puts it above and beyond other jobs? No
3) Similar enough to other jobs that people would probably have already leveled them? Thief and Monk, yes.
4) Uses a weapon (without an A+ skill) that is A+'d by aforementioned jobs? Yes.


I don't say this to be mean, I say it as how I really feel SE felt when they gave Dancer the final cut:

"This job will allow new and old players alike the opportunity to get the most out of Allied Campaign!"

 

[Neisan]

TB will probably be here in a while but apparently the New -Dmg% group 2 merit is quite potent, at least at the start (I believe it was mentioned it degrades over time). Also, looks like Dancer won the Group 2 Merit and Relic Lottery in terms of usefulness on all.

 

[Inunabe]

I wouldn't say that Urat. The defense ratings don't stack up as tank-worthy gear really, and there's only Enmity+ on one piece, which would only really help if you were say, subbing Thief and trying to mitigate hate with SATA (maybe?)

From the first glance, tanking as a dancer looks as if it will be every bit as dangerous as it already is.

I was thinking this as well, but if you take a look at Fan Dance, it not only decreases dmg, but it also increases enmity. Yes relic may only have +2 enmity, but stack that with cure spam and fan dance and it'll be silly hate generation. Not to mention if this happens to bring out a new side to dnc as in an option of dnc/war. Also if you look at the Closed Position, dnc gets ACC and Eva boost while in front of mob..that's talking more along the lines of eva pld kinda thing.

I'll definintely start playing with dnc/war maybe dnc/pld since both would get huge defense buffs that may make tanking more feasible. We'll see. Also , the problem with nin tanks is hate generation more often then not, however if you go dnc/nin then we've just been handed a paladin with shadows........you have tons of hate generation, ability to cure, Fan Dance, Stun, steps, etc etc etc.....lots of tools to keep hate....I'm interested in trying it out, but I'll still love my dnc/sam for straight healing

 

[Tristam Green]

I was thinking this as well, but if you take a look at Fan Dance, it not only decreases dmg, but it also increases enmity. Yes relic may only have +2 enmity, but stack that with cure spam and fan dance and it'll be silly hate generation. Not to mention if this happens to bring out a new side to dnc as in an option of dnc/war. Also if you look at the Closed Position, dnc gets ACC and Eva boost while in front of mob..that's talking more along the lines of eva pld kinda thing.

I'll definintely start playing with dnc/war maybe dnc/pld since both would get huge defense buffs that may make tanking more feasible. We'll see. Also , the problem with nin tanks is hate generation more often then not, however if you go dnc/nin then we've just been handed a paladin with shadows........you have tons of hate generation, ability to cure, Fan Dance, Stun, steps, etc etc etc.....lots of tools to keep hate....I'm interested in trying it out, but I'll still love my dnc/sam for straight healing

Neat, again, keep in mind that I don't level Dancer, nor do I have intention to in the near future, so what I've said is just based on my experiences with any Dancers I've come across (few), and first impressions.

 

[Bladewind]

Obviously, my opinion doesn't count, but DNC will never replace PLD as far as i'm concerned. There's several reasons why, which i'm sure you 'll dismiss, so i'll just mention 1, FFXI is not a new game, and people don't like change. Maybe, and just maybe DNC has the potential to be just as effective as a pld or nin/drk at tanking certain mobs but people who have experience with these fights would much rather stick to tried and tested methods, that they know will work.

Same thing applies to healer classes, DNC offers nothing a WHM doesn't, and less than a RDM or BRD.

 

[xRiokox]

Obviously, my opinion doesn't count, but DNC will never replace PLD as far as i'm concerned. There's several reasons why, which i'm sure you 'll dismiss, so i'll just mention 1, FFXI is not a new game, and people don't like change. Maybe, and just maybe DNC has the potential to be just as effective as a pld or nin/drk at tanking certain mobs but people who have experience with these fights would much rather stick to tried and tested methods, that they know will work.

Same thing applies to healer classes, DNC offers nothing a WHM doesn't, and less than a RDM or BRD.

Who said we were gonna replace PLD?>.> (unless I missed it somewhere?) DNC would work as an alternative tank, that's all. Unless we start testing, we won't know.

DNC is not focused solely in healing... we have other support tools :x DNC can do many things, it has more versatility than say, a BRD or a WHM.

 

[Jeska]

I really, really, truly believe that SE made Dancer the absolute Campaign exp-able job.

Almost 72 DNC atm, and its been Campaign exp since about 60ish lol. As far as my role as Dnc in a party I tend to support heal, stay on the tank and major DD's, some whm's complain I do too much healing and they get bored.

 

[Inunabe]

Neat, again, keep in mind that I don't level Dancer, nor do I have intention to in the near future, so what I've said is just based on my experiences with any Dancers I've come across (few), and first impressions.

Sure thing ^^ I'm just stating info about what's been done and possible ways that it can be used by the dancer community. I think we've been handed a bunch of tools that may make us effective tanks, only SE knows in what situations atm, but either way it's a possibility.

I've been thinking about it all night and I think once I get ahold of the relic, I may go ahead and start testing this dnc tank idea with my LS. They've gotten to the point where they love it when I have ideas on things to do with classes that most people don't think of, or hate, since I tend to make em work.

I'm sure we'll find out in the next month or two how this works out. I was thinking for the merits, atleast to test this out I'm gonna do 4 in Closed Position, 5 NFR, and 1 in Fan Dance just to test it out. I think that's a fairly reasonable merit distribution.

Sadly this means I'll have to dig out my bard to merit whore since alot of my LS merit buddies are having interweb problems and aren't in the game lately. I'll be back this saturday due to some money issues I haven't been on recently.

 

[Tristam Green]

I'll be more than happy to see if you're able to hold hate off my Dark Knight, too.


*edit* make that consistently hold hate.

 

[Inunabe]

Obviously, my opinion doesn't count, but DNC will never replace PLD as far as i'm concerned. There's several reasons why, which i'm sure you 'll dismiss, so i'll just mention 1, FFXI is not a new game, and people don't like change. Maybe, and just maybe DNC has the potential to be just as effective as a pld or nin/drk at tanking certain mobs but people who have experience with these fights would much rather stick to tried and tested methods, that they know will work.

Same thing applies to healer classes, DNC offers nothing a WHM doesn't, and less than a RDM or BRD.

Actually Bladewind, I agree with you completely. I don't think that Dnc, if proven can tank, will replace pld. Exactly for the reasons you state, people don't like to change, and prefer tried and tested. And I agree with the healing aspect as well.

Blade, I'm sorry if it seems like I was dismissing everything you were saying in other posts, I just wanted to keep any personal beefs out of discussions that can be kept reasonable. Thank you for a perfectly legit and reasonable post.

I think what you've said is true, but if we dancers can get groups of people together to test things out, it's quite possible to change the status quo in some instances, whether those changes are huge or minor.

I have some friends I'm sure I can test this out with for NM, HNM, and other partied instances.


Edit: Lol, gimme a bit of time to get some merits and some Relic, and I'll gladly test things out with you Trist. However, even the best tanks can't keep hate off DDs that are trying their hardest to rip hate away, however those said tanks will do their best at keeping those party members alive, and I think DNC can possibly do that. lol I'd be interested in giving dnc/pld a whirl just to try it out with Cover. Although I'd probably be asking to die, but meh, who cares.

 

[Tristam Green]

Edit: Lol, gimme a bit of time to get some merits and some Relic, and I'll gladly test things out with you Trist. However, even the best tanks can't keep hate off DDs that are trying their hardest to rip hate away, however those said tanks will do their best at keeping those party members alive, and I think DNC can possibly do that. lol I'd be interested in giving dnc/pld a whirl just to try it out with Cover. Although I'd probably be asking to die, but meh, who cares.

Good DD's don't strive to rip hate away from their tanks anyway. Doing so is begging to become an MP sink.

My apologies if it came off as a :spiteful: suggestion, if you get my drift.

 

[Inunabe]

Good DD's don't strive to rip hate away from their tanks anyway. Doing so is begging to become an MP sink.

My apologies if it came off as a :spiteful: suggestion, if you get my drift.

o.0 Drift? You wanna sleep with me? I think that can be arranged lol

Ya, I know good DD's aren't supposed to do that, but that doesn't keep em from getting a laugh whenever they do, not to mention there's plenty of bad DDs out there that don't understand that concept.

 

[Tristam Green]

nono, more of a "hey, imma make you wish you'd never thought dnc couldn't tank shit" idea.

and 100% with you on that second semi-paragraph.

 

[Inunabe]

lol I remember when dnc first came out and made a big post talking about how pld/dnc would be a perfectly viable and pretty kick ass tank. I got tons of flak for it then, but then all of a sudden you check out campaign and there were dozens of pld/dncs that were tanking the mobs.

Take a look at Valkyrion sometime when he's on his pld/dnc. He's pretty much a fucking god, tanks all kinds of endgamish stuff, solos VT and IT mobs, although he uses a K-club which means his tp gain is godlike.

Now to just test out this dnc thing. I'm still of the opinion that a war/dnc geared in tanking gear instead of DD stuff would be an epic tank as well.