Salvage - overview, strategy and information.

[Mai Ikari]

Ok, so the gist of the discussion is as follows:

MNK/NIN tank is way better than any other salvage tank possible, simply because you're condensing 3 important jobs into one: tank, DD, hand to hand for the start of the map. Not having a separate tank = less TP given to the mob = less TP spam of evil painful moves.

MNK keeps hate for 2 simple reasons:
1: They're a MNK, it's hard to keep hate off them in the first place, especially when they open the fight with Asuran Fists. They're just wearing merit gear, with a few tweaks as needed.
2: This isn't a merit party, so other damage shows some shread of intelligence and tries not to pull hate. If it does, it stands still and/or runs -towards- the monk so he can get hate back. Yes this means you BLMs

All moves have hate spikes, Counterstance has an amazing hate spike. If you don't need a hate spike. Getting hit like a freight train drops a lot of hate. So in short, Counterstance when you're fighting normal mobs, or activate and cancel for hate spike, or when the boss isn't trying to rip your face off.

And I got a party on BRD and haven't made any progress on this post for 10 minutes, so posting.

 

[Mariox]

This whole thing about the Pup being good or not is pointless.

Any alliance capable of beating salvage boss and farm NMs will see the merits in having a pup. And convincing random alliances of pup value is pointless. Random people in alliance will not get far in salvage anyway.

I think knowing how to get to the NM you want is more important then the details on killing.

 

[mdkuser]

you know, your all wrong about pups and wars. thief > all because? treasure hunter and H2H! Dont even try salvage withought it, you can be screwed very badly.

 

[Crosis]

Thf only really matters in Arrapago, the other areas either give plenty of drops or have a have set amount of drops per mob.

 

[pchan]

Thf only really matters in Arrapago, the other areas either give plenty of drops or have a have set amount of drops per mob.

I did several run w/o THF in bhaflau ... Maybe it was just bad luck but we killed 5 biffrons for no weapons ><. No need to mention we were low on Hi-potions xd.

 

[Uzor]

Thf only really matters in Arrapago, the other areas either give plenty of drops or have a have set amount of drops per mob.

Zhayolm floor 1 and to some extent floor 2 is the only zone where drops are guaranteed. Well, that and 1 room in Silver Sea. So I would highly reccomend bringing a THF. Besides, drop rate on armour is already low as it is, so why make it lower?

And yeah, both times we did Bhaflau without a THF, we had a hard time finding any cells at all. With a THF we see atleast 1 weapon every Biffron.

 

[K. Ishitar]

what about the other pet jobs? once you get the weapons "unhinged" they can outdo pup and before then the jug pets from bst or those of summoner can do sufficient damage?

 

[Uzor]

Well, I've honestly never been with a BST in Salvage, but they'd need Weapon and ability and ranged to be usefull, while PUP can melee at the start for faster killing, and only need ability. As for SMN, they need magic and ability. To be honest, I've never been with a SMN in salvage either, so I can't say how they'd perform.

 

[Crosis]

If no THF is available I'd rather not cancel the run. I'll take my chances on drops, except like I said, for a place like Arrapago where THF is definitely needed.

 

[Uzor]

If no THF is available I'd rather not cancel the run. I'll take my chances on drops, except like I said, for a place like Arrapago where THF is definitely needed.

I never said you should cancel the run. I just said that you'd want a THF present at all times.

 

[mdkuser]

I've tanked this boss multiples times and unless the Monks who were tanking had been naked, which I doubt with it being in Bhalfau, they shouldn't be getting hit for 600. An average hit does around 270-350, less if you happen to Guard, crits are the only thing that comes close to 600 but even those were in the 470-550 range. I'd really be against advising Monks to use Counterstance unless mages were down or resting MP. One Double Attack where both don't get countered will pretty much get you killed. Where as a Double Attack without Counterstance will only take you down maybe 40%.

Stacking counter gear is nice however unless you have nearly every piece possible with capped merits, which even then is not entirely reliable, it can get you killed fast. With March and Haste most Monks will be at the cap for Utusemi recasts and keeping shadows up isn't incredibly difficult.

its strange that a lot people say that, yet ive never seen it. the 4-5 boss attempt we did, with different jobs, with decent armor unlocked, the boss really hit for 600+ ( on thief, monk or blm..) crit 700 and it tripple attacks i think. Yet some people say it only ht for 300? i wanna see this.

 

[Bajaratt]

its strange that a lot people say that, yet ive never seen it. the 4-5 boss attempt we did, with different jobs, with decent armor unlocked, the boss really hit for 600+ ( on thief, monk or blm..) crit 700 and it tripple attacks i think. Yet some people say it only ht for 300? i wanna see this.

They're doing something to weaken their defense then, I've been hit on both whm and monk and the hits were no where near 600, baring criticals. The only way I could see it hitting that hard is hitting through counter stance or they got hit with a triple attack. I think the highest non-crit that hit me was around 430.

 

[mdkuser]

that was a boss run we attempted with several BLM/NIN. I was BLM/NIN, and we focussed on gearing BLMs. Not only shadows went down instantly (tripple attack..), but kinda one hit shot with 900 HP, i remember seeing a crit 700+. And i had VIT unlocked if it even matters.

 

[Crosis]

I just did this again thursday and recorded all of my hits. At the start it hits much weaker hitting for about 270-350, even guarded for 85 once. Under 25% it begins to hit harder and regular hits were doing 380-470, didn't get crit once. So again I'm not sure how you are taking so much damage. I even wear dual snipers which is -20 defense. To my knowledge none of the bosses can Triple Attack either.

I never said you should cancel the run. I just said that you'd want a THF present at all times.

And where did I say don't bring a THF? lol I said they only really matter in one specific area to get geared properly. But it's not the end of the world if you don't have one. We just did 2 Silver Sea boss runs the past week without a THF and won easily. Obviously I wouldn't recommend an NM run without a THF but since the bosses drop gear regardless they aren't required for boss runs, other than Arrapago. With and without a THF mobs can be stingy, and a lot is luck. So again I'll say bringing a THF is highly recommended clearly BUT you can do runs without them if you don't have one.

 

[Courtney]

Zhayolm floor 1 and to some extent floor 2 is the only zone where drops are guaranteed. Well, that and 1 room in Silver Sea. So I would highly reccomend bringing a THF. Besides, drop rate on armour is already low as it is, so why make it lower?

The first, second and fifth floors of Silver Seas (except for the L35 NMs) are unaffected by TH. The boss here is a really good option if you don't have a THF for the run, because these are the only floors you actually touch. Zhayolm and Bhaflau are ok too (TH isn't an issue on any Boss) but yeah Arrapago is the one that you can't really attempt without TH.

 

[Uzor]

The first, second and fifth floors of Silver Seas (except for the L35 NMs) are unaffected by TH. The boss here is a really good option if you don't have a THF for the run, because these are the only floors you actually touch. Zhayolm and Bhaflau are ok too (TH isn't an issue on any Boss) but yeah Arrapago is the one that you can't really attempt without TH.

Yes, that wasn't my point. THF was mainly for the gear drops (excluding NM's), and cells in Bhaflau, Zhayolm (past first floor) and Arrapago Remenants.

While yes, drops in Silver Sea is guaranteed, they aren't guaranteed the same way Zhayolm are. Zhayolm are 100% chance that a weapon will drop from X mob. In Silver Sea (other then 1 room), you're pretty much guaranteed X cells, which is random.

 

[Courtney]

Yes, that wasn't my point. THF was mainly for the gear drops (excluding NM's), and cells in Bhaflau, Zhayolm (past first floor) and Arrapago Remenants.

While yes, drops in Silver Sea is guaranteed, they aren't guaranteed the same way Zhayolm are. Zhayolm are 100% chance that a weapon will drop from X mob. In Silver Sea (other then 1 room), you're pretty much guaranteed X cells, which is random.

Well if you're hunting L35 NMs in any zone you need TH, so debating whether you need TH for cells in NM runs seems pretty pointless.

(and the second floor imps in Silver Seas also have static drops including Incus)

 

[Uzor]

Well if you're hunting L35 NMs in any zone you need TH, so debating whether you need TH for cells in NM runs seems pretty pointless.

(and the second floor imps in Silver Seas also have static drops including Incus)

No, I originally said that you need a THF for Salvage since the drop rates are already so bad on armour, so there's no reaso not make them worse. You and Crosis are the ones that started debating that cell drop rate doesn't matter

Zhayolm floor 1 and to some extent floor 2 is the only zone where drops are guaranteed. Well, that and 1 room in Silver Sea. So I would highly reccomend bringing a THF. Besides, drop rate on armour is already low as it is, so why make it lower?

And yeah, both times we did Bhaflau without a THF, we had a hard time finding any cells at all. With a THF we see atleast 1 weapon every Biffron.

YEs, the last part I did mention bad drop rates on Biffrons, but I don't see myself refering to Silver Sea there. I did say earlier in the thread that you can't assume you'll have all the gear you need, though, but that was towards Skaw saying WAR will be better then PUP when the WAR have armour.

Besides, when I said that to Skaw, I even mentioned Arrapago and Zhaolm as main points, with Silver Sea as partly, with Bhaflau as unrelated as you're pretty much guaranteed to be fulyl unlocked after first/second floor

 

[pchan]

Yes i have also some experience on the boss hitting pretty hard. I was on pup, and since we geared the BLMs, i had only few gears and stats. Once it ate my shadows, it one-shotted me (critical and no HP unlocked ..). I'm guessing it's not that bad with stats like VIT unlocked. But BLM vit and def really sucks .. A blm that runs out of shadow is pretty much dead. Thats why i dont like the ping-pong stategy. Not to mention that your magic accuracy sucks on boss. I did like 1,500 dmg total emptying my mps ... i saw a blizzard 4 do less dmg than bli3. i've tryied once as rdm, and i can tell i was not resisted due to magic accuracy merits.



Maybe dex will lessen the chance of receiving critical hits. I'd like to know for how much a pld fully geared would be hit for. If the pld is hit for 200 and the monk for 300 it's not worth using def gear.

 

[Bajaratt]

Yes i have also some experience on the boss hitting pretty hard. I was on pup, and since we geared the BLMs, i had only few gears and stats. Once it ate my shadows, it one-shotted me (critical and no HP unlocked ..). I'm guessing it's not that bad with stats like VIT unlocked. But BLM vit and def really sucks .. A blm that runs out of shadow is pretty much dead. Thats why i dont like the ping-pong stategy. Not to mention that your magic accuracy sucks on boss. I did like 1,500 dmg total emptying my mps ... i saw a blizzard 4 do less dmg than bli3. i've tryied once as rdm, and i can tell i was not resisted due to magic accuracy merits.



Maybe dex will lessen the chance of receiving critical hits. I'd like to know for how much a pld fully geared would be hit for. If the pld is hit for 200 and the monk for 300 it's not worth using def gear.

That's agility.