San d'Oria [S] Time to take back whats ours

[Sandria]

I totally agree with you Kyimatsu! There are times where I will sing, and not feel the slightest bit guilty for it -- and times where I bust my ass in the actual campaign. Usually comes down to the level of the character that I am on. The thing is though, and I won't lie, if I'm tossing you a cure it's so I can get my exp. When my carbuncle s doing healing ruby II its so I am getting some exp. When a battle is longer, I am getting more exp. (So it doesn't matter at all to me if someone is singing.. its as if they werent even there.)

I have absolutely no problems with helping out with the OPs idea, cus guess what.. It means I can get some exp on a low lvl job-- but when its all said and done, it doesn't matter to me if a tarutaru army took over a windurst nation. It doesn't even matter if we as San'doria get back a nation. If anything, I get a helleva lot more exp in San'doria on my smn due to my buffs on so many NPCs that I don't care if we get an area back.

As far as the arguements about lack of raises, it could just be bad luck on where you died. A mage might be low on MP, or a various amount of other things. It has little to do with San'doria in particular.. You'd run into the same problem else where. I don't know if its from the karma of giving out so many raises, but I can't recall the last time I didnt get a raise in campaign when I didnt have reraise. And not to mention, most areas you can get temporary items that cost you a lil bit of AN to get a reraise item.

IMO, the largest flaw SE made with camopaign is the lack of incentive for taking an area. I mean yah the npc for getting your tag might be a few paces closer to the fort... but aside from that can someone humoor me on what the big deal is? (besides e-peen).

 

[Nycon]

If even a fraction of the people helped take territorys back rather than spam songs by the npc tags person in town, you'd have all your territorys back I'm sure.

Yep people are lazy they'd rather spam songs than raise a sword to help the cause. I saw a lv 72 sam with a lv 5 bard sub the other day singing away by the tags npc, for christ sake you're a SAM go hit something is that why you leveled the job so you can spam brd songs!?

^ This drives me crazy as well. I'm sick of these /brds lagging up the zone milking xp out of a flaw SE missed.. I've started to MPK them whenever I can. Last night I was able to pull one of the elementals that pops over to them in Sandy and about half of them were kill until some idiots pulled the elemental away again.

Can't wait for the patch..

 

[Nycon]

I totally agree with you Kyimatsu! There are times where I will sing, and not feel the slightest bit guilty for it --

It doesn't even matter if we as San'doria get back a nation. If anything, I get a helleva lot more exp in San'doria on my smn due to my buffs on so many NPCs that I don't care if we get an area back.

Sorry for the double post, but we need less people with the above attitude and more people willing to not be lazy. I'm sorry, but I don't think jobs below lvl 65 should be allowed in campaign. You only lag up the zone. At 65 if you can't hit, eat sushi.

 

[Misi]

Getting Pashow back was actually kinda fun. Even the mob killing without being flagged for campaign was pretty cool even if it lacked a tangible reward. It felt like the first years of FFXI where there were no politics and everyone was just trying to team up regaurdless of any barriers and get stuff done. Like how it should be.

Mostly everyone stuck around till 11am (jp midnight) Just to wait and watch the beastman flag change back to Bastok. Most of us put those summer fireworks to good use, turned into an awesome party after that. I hope everyone gets to partake in that.

I've already expressed how I felt about bard botting so I wont get into depth with that again, But seeing people in full Homam doing that crap, if you can get stuff like that you can go and hit things with sticks. But anyway, all in due time.

 

[Altheya]

^ This drives me crazy as well. I'm sick of these /brds lagging up the zone milking xp out of a flaw SE missed.. I've started to MPK them whenever I can. Last night I was able to pull one of the elementals that pops over to them in Sandy and about half of them were kill until some idiots pulled the elemental away again.

Can't wait for the patch..

I was having fun seeing people do stuff like that with orcs and elementals, just puts a damper when some smn / sch heals everyone though. wanted to see how much... effect there could be...

 

[Sandria]

Sorry for the double post, but we need less people with the above attitude and more people willing to not be lazy. I'm sorry, but I don't think jobs below lvl 65 should be allowed in campaign. You only lag up the zone. At 65 if you can't hit, eat sushi.

Lazy? Its called gaining non-stop exp from the time the campaign starts til it finishes, not just waiting completely for the mobs to show up. Where there are more characters (pc or npcs) I'm getting more exp. And frankly, that's in the city zones hands down. You might think down on me wanting to get optimal exp, but you certainly can't tell me any good reason why it matters if we claim an area. Hence, UNTIL the poiint SE gives us a reason to gain areas you might as well get the most out of your exp/an and focus on ranking up.

You might think only certain people should be allowed to do campaign, but if SE felt low lvl jobs should not have a place in campaign they would have made a level restriction aside from a reduction of the max EXP. And also, if those bards are lagging you and your friends that much than you need to tweak your pc a bit or do something relatively easy and that's filter your effects. What I do in campaign may or may not take more effort than you. I don't know what job you do, but if you're a melee and you spend the bulk of your time just engaging a mob and building TP.. ws, etc.. I know I do more.

My attitude is fine, and if anyone's needs adjusting is yours. You must log onto ffxi and say 'Time for Work'.. it's a game. Let ppl play the game the way that they want to and stop trying to place all these "Okay guys, we're all going to play the game the way I think we should" mentalities on every aspect of the game. You might log on with the mind-set of "I'm going to take back <insert zone> today".. which is fine, grab your friends and go do it, but those like myself who go to campaign to get exp are not hurting you at all.

As for hoping for a bard nurf... I don't recall when SE said they were going to make changes to campaign they specifically pointed out they were not going to have people no longer be able to sing songs. It might be that, or who knows.. it might be an actual insentive compiled in that gives people like me a reason to see the point of gaining an area.

 

[Skaw]

Does Bastok still have Moui? I spent two weeks in Crawlers Nest getting that bitch, you guys better still have her.

 

[Misi]

Does Bastok still have Moui? I spent two weeks in Crawlers Nest getting that bitch, you guys better still have her.

We have her and the dragoon lady

 

[Skaw]

Thats good. You have no idea how boring running chigoes 50 times the first week, and atleast 75(lost count after about 60) the second(since 50 obviously wasn't enough) was.

DNC sub atleast farmed me up some EXP during campaigns there.

 

[Nycon]

Lazy? Its called gaining non-stop exp from the time the campaign starts til it finishes, not just waiting completely for the mobs to show up. Where there are more characters (pc or npcs) I'm getting more exp. And frankly, that's in the city zones hands down. You might think down on me wanting to get optimal exp, but you certainly can't tell me any good reason why it matters if we claim an area. Hence, UNTIL the poiint SE gives us a reason to gain areas you might as well get the most out of your exp/an and focus on ranking up.

You might think only certain people should be allowed to do campaign, but if SE felt low lvl jobs should not have a place in campaign they would have made a level restriction aside from a reduction of the max EXP. And also, if those bards are lagging you and your friends that much than you need to tweak your pc a bit or do something relatively easy and that's filter your effects. What I do in campaign may or may not take more effort than you. I don't know what job you do, but if you're a melee and you spend the bulk of your time just engaging a mob and building TP.. ws, etc.. I know I do more.

My attitude is fine, and if anyone's needs adjusting is yours. You must log onto ffxi and say 'Time for Work'.. it's a game. Let ppl play the game the way that they want to and stop trying to place all these "Okay guys, we're all going to play the game the way I think we should" mentalities on every aspect of the game. You might log on with the mind-set of "I'm going to take back <insert zone> today".. which is fine, grab your friends and go do it, but those like myself who go to campaign to get exp are not hurting you at all.

As for hoping for a bard nurf... I don't recall when SE said they were going to make changes to campaign they specifically pointed out they were not going to have people no longer be able to sing songs. It might be that, or who knows.. it might be an actual insentive compiled in that gives people like me a reason to see the point of gaining an area.

So standing around the C.A. singing songs is fun to you? lol. No I don't need an attitude adjustment. What we need is for people to yes, STOP BEING LAZY, and go out and do your job. My complaint is with the /brds standing at the C.A. singing songs. Thats a glitch in the system where they can continually cap thier exp with X number of songs then turn in their tags, get a new tag and rinse and repeat. The is messed up and if you are one of the people doing it, then yes you are lazy.

Yes you can play the game how you want. That doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion in displeasure for the ways your go about "gaining non-stop exp". You know what else gets you non stop exp? Curing, melee, Job abilities, taking dmg, raising ppl. There are lots of things for mages to be doing out there. Stop being lazy and participate.

Oh and one last thing. I'm not "hoping" for a nerf. SE is fixing it in the next version update. People aren't going to be able to stand by the C.A. and continually get tags after capping exp with songs.

 

[Jeska]

I dunno, maybe if they made bard songs affect everyone around them reguardless of if they in party (much like smn buffs do atm in campaign) that might make it more fun for bards and encourage them to run around helping too. Might make it more fun for everyone there and show that bards can contribute besides standing by the CA tags npc.

 

[xlucifelx]

Nycon you need to chill out lol.

What we need is for people to yes, STOP BEING LAZY, and go out and do your job.

Instead of bitching about the bards and lower level jobs doing their own thing to get the little exp they can while waiting for a party, you should instead be rallying the people who have the same mindset as you to get back the outposts. Hell make an LS out of it.

I play on PS2, the lowest of the low of systems, and I really have no problem with the bards singing in terms of lag, unless I'm in a certain radius, and even then the only time it really messes up is if there's also a group of NPC there, which is very rarely the case. Otherwise it's just the groups of NPC and x20 players thrashing on one mob that causes my game to freeze up a bit. It's the animations all going at once. If they bug you so much, just don't fight around them.

The problem here IS the lack of participation, I agree. But Sandria has a point, unless SE starts adding in new features where we actually gain more for having more strong holds, you really can't blame people for not having the motivation to go out and get them back. Not everyone is that pride-filled when it comes to this game, especially as something as small as getting back strongholds. Campaign has just become another way to whore out EXP and the best way is to just sit in the towns and wait. The less strongholds we have, the more frequently the attacks become and ultimately the more exp you'll gain in the cities, especially if you're /brd or a bard singing till the mobs actually arrive.

Edit: I both agree and disagree with what Jeska has to say. Although the area effect would be nice.....but you do realize every member would have x2 bard buffs for every x1 bard or x1 bard buff for every /brd <.< plus the recast on bard songs would be ridiculous in gaining exp . . . but I think you're totally on the right track with that idea.

 

[Sandria]

I never said singing was fun, but it certainly doesn't hut you any if I get on a low lvl job that I need exp for and decide to use bard for the sake that it's a more practical choice than hitting a mob for 0 dmg if even being able to hit it at all. It's just not your place to tell people how they have to play in 'your' campaign.

But, I certainly do enjoy playing on my SMN, and I'm certainly not going to have you tell me how I should play the job. I won't deny that I don't rely heavily on my smn taking dmg to gain exp because they're squishy, but as for healing? You do know that Healing Ruby II hits all in the area of effect right? So I can at any given time heal from 3k-5 or more depending on how mnany ppl are around when I use that BP (and naturally the mob). You realize at the same time I'm attacking the mob, my avatar is attacking the mob and doing dmg? As I said, in a city I stand to gain so much more than a region because of the bulk of ppl and that's no lie. In your perfect world you prolly see a smner as the one who should be camped out waiting for a transporter to come along, but I guess the difference between you and I is the lack of dedication to campaign. I'm there for the exp and the rank ups.

You have yet to tell me the point to taking back areas aside from "Zomg, laziness". And I dont know if I missed an update msg from SE, but I don't remember when they pin-pointed singing on a bard as something they were going to definately adjust. Whether they do or not is one thing, but if someone has a copy of where this was.. I'd be interested in seeing it. And whether they do or not won't effect me that much, but if they do more than just adjust singing I am most assured this will affect people who do actually 'actively participate'.

 

[Nycon]

I never said singing was fun, but it certainly doesn't hut you any if I get on a low lvl job that I need exp for and decide to use bard for the sake that it's a more practical choice than hitting a mob for 0 dmg if even being able to hit it at all. It's just not your place to tell people how they have to play in 'your' campaign.

But, I certainly do enjoy playing on my SMN, and I'm certainly not going to have you tell me how I should play the job. I won't deny that I don't rely heavily on my smn taking dmg to gain exp because they're squishy, but as for healing? You do know that Healing Ruby II hits all in the area of effect right? So I can at any given time heal from 3k-5 or more depending on how mnany ppl are around when I use that BP (and naturally the mob). You realize at the same time I'm attacking the mob, my avatar is attacking the mob and doing dmg? As I said, in a city I stand to gain so much more than a region because of the bulk of ppl and that's no lie. In your perfect world you prolly see a smner as the one who should be camped out waiting for a transporter to come along, but I guess the difference between you and I is the lack of dedication to campaign. I'm there for the exp and the rank ups.

You have yet to tell me the point to taking back areas aside from "Zomg, laziness". And I dont know if I missed an update msg from SE, but I don't remember when they pin-pointed singing on a bard as something they were going to definately adjust. Whether they do or not is one thing, but if someone has a copy of where this was.. I'd be interested in seeing it. And whether they do or not won't effect me that much, but if they do more than just adjust singing I am most assured this will affect people who do actually 'actively participate'.

You aren't even listening to what i'm saying. I don't care if you sub bard on your summoner and are out fighting like a normal smn. That doesn't bother me. Its the taking advantage of something SE never intended, which is spaming songs around the C.A., getting max exp, then turn in your tag and do it again. Thats lame and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Not once in my replies did I tell you how to play your smn.. lmao. Reread. I'm talking about the anyone one who subs /brd and stands around the C.A. and spams songs. If you are SMN/BRD and are buffing ppl and NPC's and are doing your bloodpacts while spamming your songs (all on 1 tag) then great, have at it.

Your second paragraph is talking down to me like I didn't know that smn can do that crap.. lol Its clear you just read my post and read it as if I was attacking you. I wasn't I was saying you don't need to /brd and stand by the C.A. to get exp as a mage job. I suggested the other ways to get continuous exp so you don't sit around the C.A. spamming songs which does nothing for your nation.

Benefits of taking back zones:

If we take back just a few zones the orcs won't be able to continuously attack the home front which causes the nations NPCs to disappear until said Campaign is over. Meaning no Campaign warp, no Campaign OPs, ect. I'm sure there are more benifits that just that.

I'll search for the interview were SE said they are nerfing the time between being able to get a new tag. They never said, and I never said they were nerfing the actual singing of songs. They are nerfing the amount of tags one can get in a given time.

*sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes, I'm at work and dont' have time to check it over*

 

[xlucifelx]

Hmm, well on behalf of Sandria, I will admit there's a little confusion. When she goes to campaign she's either usually SMN or BRD respectively, not SMN/BRD. She goes with her bard to whore the EXP as a lower level job, while waiting for whatever to happen.

There's always a glitch in the system, a short-cut if you will, it's in every game . . . cheats you could call it. Just because there's a loop hole doesn't mean it should be fixed. I think there would be a lot more complaints if SE did try to fix this 'problem' then if they took it out . . . a lot of people do enjoy how easy it is to get EXP, even if its just a little, on lower level jobs instead of sitting around pointlessly waiting for a party.

As for the benefits, those NPC really are the only ones at the moment and that's more of just of an annoyance rather then a full blown problem like RMT or something . . . not that I want to compare the two.

 

[Bluefrost]

Moving on, I’d like to ask about a point of contention people have with Campaign Battles. There are people who do what’s called “Buff spamming” or “Song spamming.”
Ito: Yes, that certainly is a problem. We’re still experimenting, but we may implement some rule about taking an Allied Tag after recently accepting one. The main counter-measure is against songs, but basically they use a BOT to take an Allied Tag, sing several songs, quickly receive their experience points and subsequently grab another tag. We think regular players should be practically unaffected if, for example, there is some waiting period imposed on reapplying for your Allied Tag.


http://petfoodalpha.com/?p=734&page=4

 

[Sandria]

I have some typos in mine as well, but never mind that --.. imo it'd be silly to sub bard on a smn (but thats an entirely different debate)... My issue is if I am on a low lvl job and I am seeking or dont have enough time to party or for whatever reason, I don't see any point in not using bard to benifit my lower level job. A flaw in the system or not, it's there and thus I see no reason not to use it. As for refreshing tags, I prolly should refresh my tag more on SMN, but I don't.. However if I play WHM its so easy to hit the Healing cap that I still need to refresh tags on that just for doing a lot of healing. So, like I said, if they hit bard with their next patch it's going to trickle down to other 'actively participating' jobs.

I just don't see where the issue is that people have with the singing. Campaign is not advanced enough to where the waves reflect how many people are participating. They might not be helping you, but they're not hurting you. I could see a large need to complain if the waves reflected the amount of people participating in the battle. Its like the bards are just 'not there'.. and I'm willing to bet.. they most likely won't be there if there is a nurf.

As far as higher lvls doing the bard thing.. I don't get it. I dont know how they would really get the most out of their exp that route but i havent tried it on a lvl 75 job. But I will say that I don't get a huge amount of exp on my lower lvl chars that use bard, but between parties it is helpful. Maybe you should try it and you'd see. Needless to say if it's nurfed it won't be the hugest draw back in the world to me, it's only helpful to an extent.


As far as the insentive for claiming areas, the one you mentioned is like the only one aside from the npc's being a bit stronger or something. On the flip side, it allows for constant campaigning because if there is a campaign going on in the city you don't need to use the npc to go to another areaa... (well, depending on your needs of the npcs that is).

 

[Sandria]

Moving on, I’d like to ask about a point of contention people have with Campaign Battles. There are people who do what’s called “Buff spamming” or “Song spamming.”
Ito: Yes, that certainly is a problem. We’re still experimenting, but we may implement some rule about taking an Allied Tag after recently accepting one. The main counter-measure is against songs, but basically they use a BOT to take an Allied Tag, sing several songs, quickly receive their experience points and subsequently grab another tag. We think regular players should be practically unaffected if, for example, there is some waiting period imposed on reapplying for your Allied Tag.


http://petfoodalpha.com/?p=734&page=4

Thanks blue for posting, but, again, I stress with every nurf they do to 'fix' a problem it ultimately has the chance to create another problem that will typically effect everyone.

 

[Bluefrost]

Sunday morning I went to do some Campaigns and try to win back Jugner Forest. I had begun a Campaign Ops, so I waited out there. I see a 26PLD/13BRD running around. Once campaign started, I pulled a Fiendish Leechkeeper near the CA, but not close enough for him to get hate. While I'm soloing, he just stands there casting protect and songs on himself over and over. I didn't have anyone out there to help Sandy (I can solo Imps fine) except for myself. The first person to come out was about 10-15 minutes after the Campaign had started.

That's why it's a pain in the butt for me and Nycon. Maybe the PLD could have done a little bit more than to just stand there and keep refreshing his tags. Plus, PLD isn't one of those "I can't solo on it" jobs. Specifically in town, I drop down to 4-5 fps, and I do have all my filters and battle effects on (except for my own party), and I still get that lag.

 

[Nycon]

I have some typos in mine as well, but never mind that --.. imo it'd be silly to sub bard on a smn (but thats an entirely different debate)... My issue is if I am on a low lvl job and I am seeking or dont have enough time to party or for whatever reason, I don't see any point in not using bard to benifit my lower level job. A flaw in the system or not, it's there and thus I see no reason not to use it. As for refreshing tags, I prolly should refresh my tag more on SMN, but I don't.. However if I play WHM its so easy to hit the Healing cap that I still need to refresh tags on that just for doing a lot of healing. So, like I said, if they hit bard with their next patch it's going to trickle down to other 'actively participating' jobs.

I just don't see where the issue is that people have with the singing. Campaign is not advanced enough to where the waves reflect how many people are participating. They might not be helping you, but they're not hurting you. I could see a large need to complain if the waves reflected the amount of people participating in the battle. Its like the bards are just 'not there'.. and I'm willing to bet.. they most likely won't be there if there is a nurf.

As far as higher lvls doing the bard thing.. I don't get it. I dont know how they would really get the most out of their exp that route but i havent tried it on a lvl 75 job. But I will say that I don't get a huge amount of exp on my lower lvl chars that use bard, but between parties it is helpful. Maybe you should try it and you'd see. Needless to say if it's nurfed it won't be the hugest draw back in the world to me, it's only helpful to an extent.


As far as the insentive for claiming areas, the one you mentioned is like the only one aside from the npc's being a bit stronger or something. On the flip side, it allows for constant campaigning because if there is a campaign going on in the city you don't need to use the npc to go to another areaa... (well, depending on your needs of the npcs that is).

Okie I'm starting to understand where you are coming from and I think we may have both been confused as to what each other was trying to say. I'll concede the point that on lower lvl jobs, its probably the only way to get exp in campaign(subbing bard and song spamming I mean). Which I understand that nobody wants to sit and try to melee and hit for 0. I guess I wouldn't chose that route with my lower lvl jobs, but thats your choice until they nerf it.

I was thinking that you were subbing it(brd) on your 75 jobs and still sitting around the NPC song spamming. Thats the part where I was confused and I'm sorry for that. What really drives me nuts, and Jeska and a few others have touched on this(maybe in the other thread), is when 75(insert job here) is subbing their lvl 5 brd and are camped out at the C.A. spamming songs. Those are the people that really chap my hide. That is the laziness I was referring to and I thought thats what you were doing cause its supposedly hard to make campaign exp as a mage.

In all honesty, I really don't mind you or anyone else doing it on there lvl 30+ jobs. I mean like others have said, its there to be used/abused however you look at it.

You are also right that there isn't a huge amount of benifits *yet*, but I guess I take alot of pride in trying to take back whats ours. Thats where alot of my frustration stems from is that most people don't seem to care about lost zones. Frankly I left Bastok campaign to come to Sandy for the gear and I just want the people of sandy to not be laughed at cause the taru or the humes are winning back zones for their respective nations.

Anywho sorry if I offended you, but I hope less people do the song spamming and start trying to kill mobs/forts.