Scythe choices

Bladewind

Bladewind

One Angry Panda
Adventurer
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
689
Main Job
Paladin-Male
Secondary Job
DarkKnight-Male
Third Job
Bard-Male
Server
Quetzalcoatl
Linkshell
SnB
Posting here, because although the other topic was basically over it was still a derail.
Edit: http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=67810 - link to the original thread, from pages 4-5.

Tomasello said:
Sorry, the only people who say Perdu is better then a Molione's set are people who are too broke to afford it or too ignorant of its benefit outside of the stats comparison (ie not becoming a gimp if your forced to sit on tp for a few swings etc). The best evidence available to date is they parse pretty much the same with Molione's pulling ahead the better your acc is.
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If the "people who are too broke to afford Molione's" was directed at me, why would i be looking at a Death Scythe +1 that costs double the price of Molione's Scythe & ring combined? It would be more accurate to mock me for leaving Apoc out of the picture, because i truly am too broke to afford one of those.

can you post a link to your evidence? sounds more recent than anything i've read.
 
This is one of those brick-wall discussions that always seems to crop up every few months, especially when a new high-level scythe is introduced.

Apocalypse taken entirely out of the debate, since it is by far the best overall.

It comes down to play style, gear loadout, and stats that one is compensating.

I preferred Moliones's set because of its STR modifiers and Souleater bonus, primarily because I didn't have an AF+1 head. Had I had that, I might have gone fulltime on Perdu.
 
TG is right with his main idea of gear and play style.

Perdu/Molione's/Tredecim all have their advantages. Since I have a very good haste build, I prefer Perdu myself. The bulk of DRK's I have seen who cannot afford Molione's or Death +1 rock Tredecim and I can't fault them, I used that until I obtained the appropriate assault rank.

There is always a way to skew a parse toward one side of an argument. So it is impossible to put a finger on one single weapon and say this is it right here, the only weapon for this job. Can anyone fathom any other job that you can make that assumption?

Besides, aren't we all gimp for using scythe and not slaving until we own a Kraken Club?
 
Bladewind said:
Posting here, because although the other topic was basically over it was still a derail.
Edit: http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=67810 - link to the original thread, from pages 4-5.



If the "people who are too broke to afford Molione's" was directed at me, why would i be looking at a Death Scythe +1 that costs double the price of Molione's Scythe & ring combined? It would be more accurate to mock me for leaving Apoc out of the picture, because i truly am too broke to afford one of those.

can you post a link to your evidence? sounds more recent than anything i've read.
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Weren't you the one who said moliones pulls ahead slightly at capped acc? I don't really know exact parses but I know they're both very similar. And I have high as hell acc so I prefer to use moliones.
 
Brydan said:
TG is right with his main idea of gear and play style.

Perdu/Molione's/Tredecim all have their advantages. Since I have a very good haste build, I prefer Perdu myself. The bulk of DRK's I have seen who cannot afford Molione's or Death +1 rock Tredecim and I can't fault them, I used that until I obtained the appropriate assault rank.

There is always a way to skew a parse toward one side of an argument. So it is impossible to put a finger on one single weapon and say this is it right here, the only weapon for this job. Can anyone fathom any other job that you can make that assumption?
Click to expand...

Things are always situational, and i agree the rest of your gear has an impact, but still i'd like to see the most recent tests. It's actually difficult to get a "very good haste build" on drk, without top of the line gear or being /drg, while it's fairly easy to get a 17-19% build.

Brydan said:
Besides, aren't we all gimp for using scythe and not slaving until we own a Kraken Club?
Click to expand...

Was this sarcasm? or would you seriously use a Kclub everywhere you go?

Edit: I think Molione's would pull ahead if acc capped.
 
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Bladewind said:
Things are always situational, and i agree the rest of your gear has an impact, but still i'd like to see the most recent tests. It's actually difficult to get a "very good haste build" on drk, without top of the line gear or being /drg, while it's fairly easy to get a 17-19% build.



Was this sarcasm? or would you seriously use a Kclub everywhere you go?

Edit: I think Molione's would pull ahead if acc capped.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was sarcasm.

And I know my haste build is good. A lot of very good people have put alot of time and effort into helping me become useful. My wife Dani has always been there for me. Achates personally dragged my pre-useful ass through ZM, CoP, and he helped me score a Limbus shell. Evrae, Skeith, and Ariesol (Aloo also) continue to help me in Limbus to this day.

Thanks to all of the people I named, I understand my job, it's gear, and situational weaponry much better then I did even two years ago. When I was new to 75 I was happy with thick set. When I was ignorant I thought the black set was full time. Now I have a full range of gear and weapons.

I don't like it, but I have an Abyss set and understand it's need in mana useage. I still keep my black set for weapon skill macro and about town so people check me. And of course, I essentially full time my Homam.

But gear spills into weaponry. I remember when I was allergic to Great Sword, and didn't care that I could skill into Light with it. So I carry a Balin's even though I may use it once every three months. I still own my Tredecim. The auto crit cannot be ignored. So my point is that even though I full time Perdu I can very certainly adapt depending on what's asked of me.

One thing that bears consideration is that another part of situational gearing and weaponry is the group you play with. If I could, I would /SAM and go balls out every time. But Ariesol might whip my ass if we're split zoning Limbus and I'm not /NIN. It also might be bad for my health if my dear wife isn't in my party and I can't cry out to her when I need her to save my ass.

I will never begrudge anyone who spends gil on Moliones's. They have unique needs, and situations that I may never understand. But I would gladly "test" or parse with any other DRK. People thought I was nuts when I was interested in parsing with Jakey.

I understand your questioning and thought. But it's not about one single event. It's also unfair to judge. I may never do any event with Bladewind in game. But I'm sure he could very certainly embarrass me at any time with Moliones's.

For the record, I have a true 6 hit build (/SAM). Haste is big for me even though I don't /DRG. The people I named earlier spent alot of their time to help me get my swift belt, brutal, homam, etc.
 
From Brydan, probable sarcasm, but not malicious. More a reference to certain people who think DRK use extends only as far as a kclub zerg, which doesn't really include anyone who's written in this thread thus far.

I agree with Blade, and think that Moliones's would pull ahead with capped accuracy.
Otherwise, I'd go with Perdu, then Tredecim if you're just dirt poor.
 
I think the best way is to look at the differences.

TP: (only concerned with weapon and ring slot, all else is the same)
Moliones's - 5 acc, 7 STR, 95 DMG, 501 delay, 11.38 DPS
Perdu - 10 acc, 14 attack, 93(88, TP > 100) DMG, 501 delay, 11.14(10.54) DPS
Death+1 - 5 acc, 98 DMG, 513 delay, 11.46 DPS

So basically 7 STR, 2 DMG vs. 5 acc, 14 att vs. 5 DMG +12 delay

WS: (ring, weapon only)
Same as above.

WS+SE: (ring, N head/AF+1, weapon)
Moliones's - 5 acc, 18 STR, 5 DEX, 95 DMG, 501 delay, 11.38 DPS
Perdu - 10 acc, 14 attack, 7STR, 93 DMG, 501 delay, 11.14 DPS
Death+1 - 5 acc, 7STR, 98 DMG, 513 delay, 11.46 DPS

Basically 11 STR, 5 DEX, 2 DMG vs. 5 acc, 14 att vs. 5 DMG, +12 delay

Now, I don't personally believe DPS is as huge a deal for DRK because it has Absorb TP which lessens the benefit and puts it more in favor of a higher DMG weapon especially if you can't constantly pull out high numbers on abs-tp. Besides that, I prefer Moliones's for several reasons, I gain the accuracy from a sniper and STR ring (NQ) in one slot all while maintaining enhanced SE and haste from head slot outside of just WS.
 
Brydan said:
I understand your questioning and thought. But it's not about one single event. It's also unfair to judge. I may never do any event with Bladewind in game. But I'm sure he could very certainly embarrass me at any time with Moliones's.
Click to expand...

Idk why you think that, my DRK's only 64 atm :P.

I'll test it for myself once I hit 75, but it needs to be done by the same person, x amount of time with Molione's parsed and x amount of time with perdu, you can't have 1 person with each and see who wins it just wouldn't work.

Still interested to see where Tomo got his information, should be an interesting read.
 
Lavi said:
I think the best way is to look at the differences.

TP: (only concerned with weapon and ring slot, all else is the same)
Moliones's - 5 acc, 7 STR, 95 DMG, 501 delay, 11.38 DPS
Perdu - 10 acc, 14 attack, 93(88, TP > 100) DMG, 501 delay, 11.14(10.54) DPS
Death+1 - 5 acc, 98 DMG, 513 delay, 11.46 DPS

So basically 7 STR, 2 DMG vs. 5 acc, 14 att vs. 5 DMG +12 delay

WS: (ring, weapon only)
Same as above.

WS+SE: (ring, N head/AF+1, weapon)
Moliones's - 5 acc, 18 STR, 5 DEX, 95 DMG, 501 delay, 11.38 DPS
Perdu - 10 acc, 14 attack, 7STR, 93 DMG, 501 delay, 11.14 DPS
Death+1 - 5 acc, 7STR, 98 DMG, 513 delay, 11.46 DPS

Basically 11 STR, 5 DEX, 2 DMG vs. 5 acc, 14 att vs. 5 DMG, +12 delay

Now, I don't personally believe DPS is as huge a deal for DRK because it has Absorb TP which lessens the benefit and puts it more in favor of a higher DMG weapon especially if you can't constantly pull out high numbers on abs-tp. Besides that, I prefer Moliones's for several reasons, I gain the accuracy from a sniper and STR ring (NQ) in one slot all while maintaining enhanced SE and haste from head slot outside of just WS.
Click to expand...

why are you assuming all NQ gear and why don't you swap in a +5 STR ring on WS for Perdu/DS+1?
 
Also lost in this is food, and merits.

Food obviously is a difference. I use meat/coreul(sp) since I prefer haste and acc.
 
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Bladewind said:
why are you assuming all NQ gear and why don't you swap in a +5 STR ring on WS for Perdu/DS+1?
Click to expand...

Only HQ you would use is Heca Cap+1 which is extremely rare, HQ STR ring and Sniper+1, but I don't have heca cap+1 or Sniper+1. In regards to STR ring, I don't use it for WS because I prefer the extra accuracy considering unlike career DRKs, I have 0 scythe merits and no abyssal.
 
I'm no DRK, but what do you guys think about vendetta + the earring? (Assuming you do not have abyssmal earring.)

Vendetta
[Main] All Races
DPS: 11.02 DMG:97 Delay:528 Enhances "Beast Killer" effect Set: Increases STR, Attack, Ranged Attack, "Magic Atk. Bonus"
LV 69 DRK

Supremacy Earring
[Ear] All Races
Set: Increases STR, Attack, Ranged Attack, "Magic Atk. Bonus"
LV 69 All Jobs

+6 STR, Attack, Range Attack and 2 magic attack bonus.
 
Arthur said:
I'm no DRK, but what do you guys think about vendetta + the earring? (Assuming you do not have abyssmal earring.)

Vendetta
[Main] All Races
DPS: 11.02 DMG:97 Delay:528 Enhances "Beast Killer" effect Set: Increases STR, Attack, Ranged Attack, "Magic Atk. Bonus"
LV 69 DRK

Supremacy Earring
[Ear] All Races
Set: Increases STR, Attack, Ranged Attack, "Magic Atk. Bonus"
LV 69 All Jobs

+6 STR, Attack, Range Attack and 2 magic attack bonus.
Click to expand...

Has a low DPS for it's high DMG, although the added stats are very nice. Really, it only comes down to 6 STR vs. added stats on other scythes though because everything else is a wash. You can get 5-6 attack in the same slot either from 3 different attack earrings or abyssal and the other stats are relatively useless except maybe for MAB which can easily be replaced by better alternatives (moldy/novio/abys/Dark). The only saving grace is the high base damage and STR, but I don't see those as extremely appealing compared to the stats of other weapons.
 
Arthur said:
(Assuming you do not have abyssmal earring.)
Click to expand...

Sorry, made me laugh.

Lavi said:
Has a low DPS for it's high DMG, although the added stats are very nice. Really, it only comes down to 6 STR vs. added stats on other scythes though because everything else is a wash. You can get 5-6 attack in the same slot either from 3 different attack earrings or abyssal and the other stats are relatively useless except maybe for MAB which can easily be replaced by better alternatives (moldy/novio/abys/Dark). The only saving grace is the high base damage and STR, but I don't see those as extremely appealing compared to the stats of other weapons.
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pretty much this but you seem to be slightly confused by dark magic skill and MAB, Moldy/Novia wont make any difference to dark magic spells, with the exception of the initial damage from casting bio.
 
DPS is highly underrated on DRKs, in my opinion. I'd forgotten that major fact about the Moliones's set; its ungodly low delay (for a scythe).
 
Brydan said:
Perdu has the same 501 delay >.>
Click to expand...

Same damage?

Because I thought the DPS order went:

Apoc(duh)
Death+1
Moliones's
Perdu
Tred (not counting crits)

I could be wrong though
 
Tristam Green said:
Same damage?

Because I thought the DPS order went:

Apoc(duh)
Death+1
Moliones's
Perdu
Tred (not counting crits)

I could be wrong though
Click to expand...

You are correct, sir.

Edit, Molione's is 95 damage, Perdu 93/88 depending on Latent. DS+1 has +13(?) delay but 98 damage.
 
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