Scythe update ... what you want from it ?

[Arctyrael]

I'm still choosing that they will nerf G.Sword as SE's past speaks loud and clear for it's future. The only counterpoint to this theory that I can think of, is SE's desire for Warrior's to make use of a greater variety of weapons.

Just remember - they did that by nerfing something else(the TP floor) SE doesn't try to fix what is broken, they try to break something else so it is all broken. Then when it doesn't work anymore, they do something drastic like making mobs just DISAPPEAR.

 

[Sanjo Renomitsu]

The problem with seeing eye to eye is that there's about 4k eyes per server to see, and its hard to see eye to eye with that many.. well eyes lol. They do what they think is best while using player input safely, that is as advice. While we may or may not like some of the things they do, the fact that you still play FFXI means they're doing SOMETHING right, and S-E is still given a hard time everytime they do something. Half the time it's not even a slip up, just a small tweak that players feel are useless or not enough, or too much. Like the rng patch. Some agree it was a good move, some didn't (includng a lot of rng), some say it's not as bad as everyone thinks.. ect. Changes like that it's impossible to ask the opinion of the playerbase, they just use our input as a light guide.

If you don't like what they offer, don't play.

As for scythes, the point is to get drks to use scythes more often, not add crazy new stuff to the game. Likely, it's either in the form of a mastery like trait that drk should of gotten from the get go, or special drk only ws or ws modifications. It probably won't be big or flashy, just a simple hard "duh" type fix that makes using GS less swallowable. That's my take on it, anyways.

 

[Suriou]

lol i have no idea what SE will do for the Scythe, but until that time comes, i'm stumped :16suspect1:

 

[hellstorm]

well I dont the first 1 is out because they just made that adjustment on polearm to make the delays less then all other 2 hands. I think it be nice if they made certain mobs more vunreble to scythe. Maybe higher dmg on ws modifers to make it = to greatsword but i dought that because there are still many other hobs that use great sword and cant use scythe so i dought nerfing great sword whould solve the problem. As for ws there ws table placement have always been kinda screwy and drks are not the only one that get hurt by it. Anyone who use a sword/scythe/polearm is sucking because of ws placement and little choices of lvl 3 ws. It be nice see them either A) revamp the ws chart or b) give new ws to all jobs for better capatiblity.

 

[etchdog2000]

Lets be honest about all this. If they changed the the spot of Scythe in the SC chart, it would not really make a bit of difference on the job itself. Cross Reaper is 2 hits. Spinning Slash is 1. /THF would still be better with GS simply because of that unless they made the modifiers that much better. If they switched up CR so its on the other side of Darkness all that does is allow other jobs to do Darkness SC's with DRK alot earlier. To really change the amount of DRKs using GS they would have to either add a new trait or make HUGE changes to the SC chart and WS modifiers.

A mastery skill would do alot for the job. However I dont really know what they will do, I am only slightly interested because I no longer play the game. However the thought of a mastery passive trait for scythe coupled with /WAR not only would make DRK a top tier DoTer but would give me a slight chubby. Somthing such as that along with the TP adjustment would boost the job quite alot.

 

[hellstorm]

Lets be honest about all this. If they changed the the spot of Scythe in the SC chart, it would not really make a bit of difference on the job itself. Cross Reaper is 2 hits. Spinning Slash is 1. /THF would still be better with GS simply because of that unless they made the modifiers that much better. If they switched up CR so its on the other side of Darkness all that does is allow other jobs to do Darkness SC's with DRK alot earlier. To really change the amount of DRKs using GS they would have to either add a new trait or make HUGE changes to the SC chart and WS modifiers.

A mastery skill would do alot for the job. However I dont really know what they will do, I am only slightly interested because I no longer play the game. However the thought of a mastery passive trait for scythe coupled with /WAR not only would make DRK a top tier DoTer but would give me a slight chubby. Somthing such as that along with the TP adjustment would boost the job quite alot.

but but then drg be all by themselfs agian; ;

 

[StanDarsh]

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=6;mid=1148933234240624985;num=73;page=1

By: Durandana
Sage

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I'd like to add my two cents in :

First of all, Double Attack is a 20% proc WAR main or Sub, this has been proven by WARs on their forum. TRIPLE ATTACK is 10% for THFs, I think that's where the confusion is. It all depends on luck, and some parties I've gotten...extremely lucky. Or unlucky. Ah well.

Secondly -- Haste for Scythes. Seriously. Okay let's look at this -- MNKs hit fast. NINs hit fast. THFs hit fast. They hit fast, they need haste to rack up DoT. DRKs have gigantic weapons that have the highest per-hit damage in the game, they have the highest delay BUT generate the highest TP per hit. Dual Wield traits actually low delay enough that it shows in TP [beyond DWII] gain, hence why the TP update totally messed with jobs that use HASTE gear to drop their delay -- they fell below the TP floor.

DRKs don't need haste beyond the spell and songs. DRKs do not need Zanshin, either. DRKs do not need...really, ANYTHING mentioned above -- they need one thing, and one thing only.

They, as well as every two-handed weapon job, need the DAMAGE FORMULA FIXED! It's broken. A WAR with a single-handed axe will do 75-80% of our per-hit damage. That's broken, we have double their base damage. Compare your 95 [Tredecim] or 97 [Death/O] base damage Scythe against the 84/85 base damage GSD. It should be comparable.

If they fix the damage formula...look out world. We'd be talking a massive increase in per-hit damage. A massive increase in weapon skill damage. We'd actually turn down Haste and March because swinging that fast would give us too much hate.

Granted, most of our JAs would never be used again due to the monsterous gain in hate...but...oh well. Fix the formula!

Screw the haste!
Screw the Zanshin!
Screw HP Drain!

Gimme 250 base per-hit damage. Gimme 450+ criticals. Give me 1.5k Guillys, Cross Reapers, and 3-4k Spiral Hells.

Can I get an amen?!
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By: drkone

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Quote:
Secondly -- Haste for Scythes. Seriously. Okay let's look at this -- MNKs hit fast. NINs hit fast. THFs hit fast. They hit fast, they need haste to rack up DoT. DRKs have gigantic weapons that have the highest per-hit damage in the game, they have the highest delay BUT generate the highest TP per hit. Dual Wield traits actually low delay enough that it shows in TP [beyond DWII] gain, hence why the TP update totally messed with jobs that use HASTE gear to drop their delay -- they fell below the TP floor.

DRKs don't need haste beyond the spell and songs. DRKs do not need Zanshin, either. DRKs do not need...really, ANYTHING mentioned above -- they need one thing, and one thing only.

They, as well as every two-handed weapon job, need the DAMAGE FORMULA FIXED! It's broken. A WAR with a single-handed axe will do 75-80% of our per-hit damage. That's broken, we have double their base damage. Compare your 95 [Tredecim] or 97 [Death/O] base damage Scythe against the 84/85 base damage GSD. It should be comparable.

If they fix the damage formula...look out world. We'd be talking a massive increase in per-hit damage. A massive increase in weapon skill damage. We'd actually turn down Haste and March because swinging that fast would give us too much hate


/clap

we have a winner. granted this would not just be for scythes, but the 2handed weapon problem is a huge issue, and fixing it would make me happy enough. they are right, we do not need the haste or blah blah blah, there is plenty of haste gear if you want that. but to have someone with a base dmg weapon that is less then half of mine doing almost the same per hit, and getting to hit for 3-4 times for my 1 on top of that just doesnt make sense.
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By: TheHolyDragoonSeraphus
Scholar

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That would actually get WARs to use their A+ weapons and a different sub(as SE wants), and would also help out DRGs as well.
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Just a couple of other good idea's I saw on Alla the other day that i thought I'd post, and the Drg part is just for you Hellstorm. If any of this helps at all please let me know ^^

 

[Zaltana]

No, meaning one off Distortion, the other off Gravitation. Both in the same position is just retarded, no matter how you slice it.

i agree but that would just alow 2 drks to make darkness. i dont call that a "fix" really. a drk and make light or darkness with a greatsword but not with a scythe. SE has boxed scythe into the 1 role of a SC that isnt used as much in endgame cause its not thunder burstable. not saying darkness is never used but i can see a SC bursted with a blm's strongest spell being prefered.

i agree that they should split up cross and spiral but seperate em to that they have the same opptions as their Gswords. that will give them more versitility with weapons. isnt that what players want in the first place?

 

[Tyrath]

but but then drg be all by themselfs agian; ;

Rngs can keep you company:crazy:

 

[Lavi]

I think we should look at the scythe from a different perspective than just examining the weapons. A look at the melee jobs and their abilities should help to put things in a better perspective.

MNK: High end damage dealer. Martial Arts ability decreases the base delay of hand-to-hand weapons from the initial 480 delay. Monk gets MA VI which reduces 300 base delay (correct?). At 51 and 71, MNK gets kick attack which allows monk to randomly use kick attacks during melee cycle. KA II is a 6% chance of KA proc. Monk also recieve Boost, a small increase in attack for the next attack; Focus, increases the accuracy of attacks; Chi Blast, a mind based attack which can be greatly increased by using boost multiple times before use; and Counterstance, an increases in the chance to counter a mob's attack while lowering defense.

WAR: Another high end damage dealer. Double attack allows attack to occasionally hit twice in a single swing cycle (or up to 4 times for dual wield weapons). Attack bonus I job trait increases the physical attack. Warrior also recieves Berserk which increases attack while lowering defense, aggressor which greatly increases accuracy at the cost of evasion and warcry which is a short term party AoE attack increase.

THF: Thief are a melee job mainly used for hate management and can do considerable spike damage especially when abilities are combined with appropriate WSs. Sneak attack vastly increases the damage of a single critical hit from behind the mob and trick attack increases the attack more while transfering hate to another player standing in front of the thief during the attack. Thief get triple attack which gives thiefs the chance to occasional attack three times in a single swing and at level 60 the assassin trait allows trick attack to act like SATA without standing behind the mob.

DRK: Dark Knights also recieve attack bonus job trait, but to a much higher level than warrior (AB III or IV?). Dark knight also get the abilities Last Resort which increases attack while lowering defence much like berserk, weapon bash which uses a two handed weapon to hit the mob once for a small amount of damage and occasionally procs stun effect, and soul eater which does extra damage for the cost of HP in the amount of 10% of max HP.

DRG: Dragoon is a melee damage dealer with the added support of a wyvern. Dragoons get attack bonus I and accuracy bonus I job traits. Dragoon also get the abilities jump attack, high jump and super jump which do do a single hit attack.

NIN: Ninja are a high end damage dealer and have access to some of the highest damage and lowest delay weapons in the game. NIN job trait gives dual wield up to level IV which decreases the over all delay of the weapons by 30%.

RNG: Rangers are experts in ranged attack. RNG get accuracy bonus IV job trait to increase both acc. and r.acc. as well as rapid shot which occasionally fires shots instantly. Rangers get the abilities sharp shoot which increases ranged accuracy and barraged which is a single instant attack which shoots 3-7 shots simultaneously depending on gear and level.

SAM: Samurai are the master of the skill chain and focus on building TP for weapon skills. Samurai get Store TP job traits up to level IV where each hit lands 25% more TP per hit. SAM also have the job trait Zanshin which occasional attacks a second time whenever an attack is missed. Meditate allows the job to gain TP from 100 to 180% depending on the gear setup.

Now the problem faces with all two-handed weapons is the vast delay and no significant way to decrease the delay. Most jobs have some ability or trait to do extra hits during the normal progression of a fight or have some ability to decrease the delay of weapons. The only exception to this is DRK which has no added attacks or delay lowering traits. Granted, a DRK can sub another job to get one of these traits, but never get both and even a delay reducing trait does not effect two-handed weapons as of yet. On the other extreme to this is RNG and MNK, both of which get delay reducing abilities and extra attacks from the main job. How is a DRK or any two handed weapon for that matter supposed to compete with a single handed weapon which will always benefit from extra attacks AND delay decreasing abilities. Answer: It cannot.

Many have provided the option of changing the WS to make SC a better option for scythe, but I never thought SC were a huge problem or at least at end levels fighting VT mobs. The problem faced is the DoT. Most jobs cannot compete with the cannons monk and warriors form and having your best weapon choices as 2-handed weapons (DRK Axe is B-, even WHM has B+ Club) makes it impossible. I doubt they would do something as vast as change to damage formula or modify the delay on all weapons. Increasing the formula would make huge hate spikes and mess with other factors too much in my opinion. I think they are more likely to give an ability for some form of mastery like martial arts or dual wield for 2-handed weapons or just scythe. I doubt the mastery will significantly lower delay or increase attack speed as much as MA/DW and make them a higher level damage dealer beyond MNK or WAR, but this will allow them to compete in the cannon parties in the top tier DDs spots.

 

[Skaw]

isnt that what players want in the first place?

No, it's not. =/

The only thing that splitting up CR and SH would do is fix the weak Scythe level 3 skillchain problem. Even if it ends up doing the same chain. 2 is more than 1. And thats the point behind my vote for it. But basically, like I said as well, fixing the damage formula will be the biggest thing they can do for Scythe, and any 2 handed weapon. The splitting the WS just would be useful without changing DRK functionality.

While the weaponskill difference is the draw to greatsword, fixing the formula would make Scythe more appealing without making Greatsword obsolete, as well as put Dragoon and Samurai back in the running for damage. It's not just a DRK fix, but a fix for every two handed weapon.

 

[Tyrath]

No, it's not. =/

The only thing that splitting up CR and SH would do is fix the weak Scythe level 3 skillchain problem. Even if it ends up doing the same chain. 2 is more than 1. And thats the point behind my vote for it. But basically, like I said as well, fixing the damage formula will be the biggest thing they can do for Scythe, and any 2 handed weapon. The splitting the WS just would be useful without changing DRK functionality.

While the weaponskill difference is the draw to greatsword, fixing the formula would make Scythe more appealing without making Greatsword obsolete, as well as put Dragoon and Samurai back in the running for damage. It's not just a DRK fix, but a fix for every two handed weapon.

Indeed...the formula change is what 2 handed people need most of all...SE seems to be deaf/blind though

 

[Tec]

Too bad DRKs suck, Daydog.

 

[Dayner]

... its DAYNER

 

[hellstorm]

not that this has much to do with topic, but i think it be nice if the would give drk more reason to use there spells more to.