Sea Gorget VS. Sea Torque: Test Result

Rorion said:
Stop taking your own thoughts for granted and say what you mean from the start instead of having us second guess your "high-iq" posts.
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That... is what I said.
 
Nasya said:
Also, with the limited tests I've done on breeze vs love for DE... love came out on top. Perhaps I'll do a more detailed one and post results here to see if that is actually the case over an extended period of time.
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Alvon mentioned this on our private forum, but Love torque has a higher chance of comming on top over gorget then Hope torque does. The attribute
on Hope torque is Agi wich does nothing for Blade Jin, where as Love torques attribute is Dex wich not only is a modifier for Dagger ws, sneak attack etc, but also transforms to accuracy.

Other interresting torques is Justice torque with the 5 str, giving even more atk and is a ws modifier, and then Faith torque wich has the possibilty, pending on your hand to hand merits, to push up your base dmg up 1 point.
 
Stouter said:
It's been tested to show that accuracy caps out at around 95% for melee swings. If the same cap exists for WS's, a 4-hit ws would land all 4 hits 95% x 95% x 95% x 95% = ~81.5% of the time. Two of your jin hits return 1 TP as do your DA procs, if you miss one of your 1 TP hits and then land a DA proc or two it will look like a full hit WS or a WS with one DA proc, and this will happen just over 2% of the time in this scenario. Missing both of your 1 TP hits and then getting DA to proc and land twice would also look like a full hit jin, but is so rare that it's not worth throwing into the equation for this setup.

So if WS accuracy caps at 95% and you are at that cap, you will get at least the full TP for Jin around 84% of the time. He's at around 82% in both tests, his accuracy won't vary enough to actually determine which gives more accuracy. The 10% came around as a wild guess early on. The tests came off ranged ws's, because they were a solid number vs a lvl 1 mob (and still are as long as your distance is the same) Breeze showed Side/Slug to raise fTP from 5.0 to 5.1, and since 0.1 is 10%, people said it was a 10% boost to damage and assumed the same held true for accuracy (note that it's only a 2% increase to damage).

Side/Slug are both 1 hit ws's, so if it's true that gorget only adds damage to the first hit, I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the accuracy only exists for the first hit as well.

I've used gorget with meat and with sushi for jin, and was unimpressed. I swapped to Chiv Chain, and it felt like I was getting more TP return on average for my jins. My breeze gorget is collecting dust atm.
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If gorget has 2% increase to damage (based on the side/slug test), I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the accuracy boost is around 2% as well.

So how much accuracy do I have for WS, I have 285 katana skill(w/o torque), 123 DEX and 8 acc from gears, that comes up to 346 acc (200 + 85*0.9 + 123/2 + 8 ). Let's factor in +15% from sushi as well, that's 346*1.15 = 397.9

2% of total accuracy would be: 397.9*0.02 = 7.958

And how much would 2% of my total Attack would be? My WS setup has 403 Attack, 2% of that is 403*0.02 = 8.06

In this scenario, gorget has about 8 acc and 8 att, compare to 6.3 acc and 7 att from torque, gorget came out ahead, but just barely. That kinda make sense to me, and pretty match the test result.

Let's face it, SE wouldn't make one piece of gear that makes your WS overpowered, I'd just be happy with 8 acc/att in that slot.
 
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Back to the topic, I believe figures speak for itself, that's why I did the test, I don't trust what ppl think or assume, u never know if the info is incorrect. Maybe I will do another test when I use meat, doubt I will do that any time soon tho since meat is inefficient on VT/ITs for nin compare to sushi.
 
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Zoo- I didn't say do it on a 1 hit WS, i said it should be redone by someone without double or tripple attack so the numbers wouldn't be confused, as determining a multi hit WS's acc is based on TP return after the WS, and a double or tripple attack could confound those results.

Avalon- I think a test wtih meat would be very intersting '-';;
 
uku said:
Back to the topic, I believe figures speak for itself, that's why I did the test, I don't trust what ppl think or assume, u never know if the info is incorrect. Maybe I will do another test when I use meat, doubt I will do that any time soon tho since meat is inefficient on VT/ITs for nin compare to sushi.
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We need an agressor/focus equivilent :/

Sorry nasya, I must have misunderstood. Although acc does make more of a diff the more hits you have on WS, and DA increases #of hits alot. I especially notcied the big diff on WS when i paired up gorget with brutal. But yea, for acc of #'s, id agree no DA or TA would be wise since the randomness of those can screw it up. And like caerloc said, for each Torque vs gorget its different depending on what jobs are using it, especially those that get dmg boosts from the +stat. I think thats a more viable discussion really, like Hope torque for rng, justice for sam/drk, love for thf, etc.
 
uku said:
If gorget has 2% increase to damage (based on the side/slug test), I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the accuracy boost is around 2% as well.

So how much accuracy do I have for WS, I have 285 katana skill(w/o torque), 123 DEX and 8 acc from gears, that comes up to 346 acc (200 + 85*0.9 + 123/2 + 8 ). Let's factor in +15% from sushi as well, that's 346*1.15 = 397.9

2% of total accuracy would be: 397.9*0.02 = 7.958

And how much would 2% of my total Attack would be? My WS setup has 403 Attack, 2% of that is 403*0.02 = 8.06

In this scenario, gorget has about 8 acc and 8 att, compare to 6.3 acc and 7 att from torque, gorget came out ahead, but just barely. That kinda make sense to me, and pretty match the test result.

Let's face it, SE wouldn't make one piece of gear that makes your WS overpowered, I'd just be happy with 8 acc/att in that slot.
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It's not a 2% increase to damage though (it is for those specific ws's, but not all ws's)
Zoolander said:
The increase in WS dmg and consistency i had from PCC to breeze was rediculous. I dont know how you could compare chiv chain to breeze.
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The only damage boost from gorget is the first hit, 10% in the case of Jin, for the first hit only. There's been no extensive testing that I've seen regarding multi-hit ws accuracy regarding gorgets, but why would they only increase damage for the first hit, and accuracy for all hits? From my experieces, having acc+5 on 4+ hits > having gorget acc on one hit. The increase of 10% to your first hit on jin will give you at best 25 more damage.
 
Eulore said:
I thought the gorgets added .1 to your pdif?
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They do, and since pDif is more or less a multiplier for the whole equation, 1.0 to 1.1 for jin is a 10% increase for that hit. It only applies to the first hit though.
 
Stouter said:
They do, and since pDif is more or less a multiplier for the whole equation, 1.0 to 1.1 for jin is a 10% increase for that hit. It only applies to the first hit though.
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PDif has a higher cap at 2.4 (3.0 if critical), if PDif is 1.5, 1.6 to 1.5 for Jin is a 6.7% increase for that hit, saying 10% increase is really misleading.

If you r thinking PDif is a static 1.0 for Jin, then you r confusing it with fTP.
 
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uku said:
PDif has a higher cap at 2.4 (3.0 if critical), if PDif is 1.5, 1.6 to 1.5 for Jin is a 6.7% increase for that hit, saying 10% increase is really misleading.

If you r thinking PDif is a static 1.0 for Jin, then you r confusing it with fTP.
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I thought it was a fTP boost, because it's an increase of 5.0 to 5.1 for slug/sidewinder.
 
Stouter said:
I thought it was a fTP boost, because it's an increase of 5.0 to 5.1 for slug/sidewinder.
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1. Let's assume it's 0.1 boost to fTP, then:

a). Steel Cyclone: 1.5 to 1.6 (100%TP) => 6.7% damage boost
b). Sidewinder: 5.0 to 5.1 (100%TP) => 2% damage boost

+6.7% VS. +2%, unbalanced, unfair for WS with higher fTP.

2. Let's assume it's 0.1 boost to PDif, and fight LV1 rabbit, then:

a). Steel Cyclone: 2.4 to 2.5 => 4.2% damage boost (PDif for melee attacks caps @2.4)
b). Sidewinder: 3.0 to 3.1 => 3.3% damage boost (PDif for ranged attacks caps @3.0)

+4.2% VS +3.3%, kinda balanced, and despite various of fTP.

+0.1 to PDif would make more sense to me, and damage boost goes up as u fight mobs with higher level (the less PDif you have against mob, the more damage boost you will get).
 
Here's the result from the guy who did Light Gorget test on Wild Rabbit:

Sidewinder:

non-LG:
Sidewinder #1 - 2484
Sidewinder #2 - 2484
Sidewinder #3 - 2484
Sidewinder #4 - 2484
(notice a trend?)

Light Gorget:
Sidewinder #1 - 2527
Sidewinder #2 - 2527
Sidewinder #3 - 2527
Sidewinder #4 - 2527
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1.73% damage boost, neither 2% nor 3.3%, so it's not +0.1 to fTP, nor +0.1 to PDif to be exact.

Therefore assumption fails, actual figure is the way to go.
 
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Ever thought the gorgets might do something different for ranged, magic, and melee WS's?
 
Eulore said:
Ever thought the gorgets might do something different for ranged, magic, and melee WS's?
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Magic WS's mean nothing, because nobody uses them (outside of spirits within, which is unaffected by sea gorgets) If you want to imply that ranged WS's are affected different than melee, of course they are, because damage is figured differently through them, and several melee ws's are multi-hit, while ranged ws's are not. Studio Gobi is the one source that everyone seems to agree has accurate info, and they have concluded that gorgets only add damage to the first hit of multi-hit ws's.

Have you ever tried using another neck piece for ws since getting your sea gorget? Try swapping back to something else for a few parties, and tell me that the change is anything dramatic.
 
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Stouter said:
Magic WS's mean nothing, because nobody uses them (outside of spirits within, which is unaffected by sea gorgets) If you want to imply that ranged WS's are affected different than melee, of course they are, because damage is figured differently through them, and several melee ws's are multi-hit, while ranged ws's are not. Studio Gobi is the one source that everyone seems to agree has accurate info, and they have concluded that gorgets only add damage to the first hit of multi-hit ws's.

Have you ever tried using another neck piece for ws since getting your sea gorget? Try swapping back to something else for a few parties, and tell me that the change is anything dramatic.
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I'm saying that maybe it mades more or less to ranged/melee WS's. I honestly don't know.

And I don't wanna dig up a spike necklace or anything, and the acc is pretty nice I guess.
 
Mishaela said:
Energy Steal/Drain is Dark, it just doesn't SC. Spirit Taker and Spirits within are non-elemental though, I believe...but yeah, no SC...
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The attribute(color) of WS you see from menu has nothing to do with sea gorget, sea gorget only works when renkei attribute matches.

Every WS has one base attribute (wind, fire, etc.), and 0~3 renkei attributes (detonation, fusion, etc.), magic WS dosn't have any renkei attributes that's why they don't SC.
 
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