"Speed-kill / Zerk / Rush" discussion

[Diabllos]

Disclaimer:

This may or may not be an old topic of debate for a lot of people. Posted to provoke debate, not claim new facts or findings.

Discussion:

DRK has evolved over time, and is now a very capable tanking class, and melee class. But DRK's niche place in endgame is, clearly, their ability to put out immense amounts of damage in a very short space of time. During Souleater, it has the potential to put out the highest damage per second of any job.

So, to set the scene this is what we have in terms of 'speed-kill' weaponry.

#1 Kraken Club

Clearly the best option for so many reasons. 2~8 hits regardless of level, allows maximum output from souleater at Lv75 due to merit and gear availability.

Here's a sample setup for a Lv75 DRK with Kraken Club:

Spoiler:

sample setup

Of course, the major drawback is it's accessability. An estimated ~1% drop rate from a BCNM60 ("Up in Arms"), or approximately 40.000.000+ gil. It's far from a realistic option, so it's time to look to the alternatives.

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#2 Octave Club

Kraken Club's rather overlooked replacement drop from Lord of Onzozo. Drop rate is supposedly the same if not slightly better. Number of hits (#H) is proportionate to your Main-Job's level. (See below)

Lv 64 ~8H
Lv 66 ~2H
Lv 68 ~4H
Lv 70 ~2H
Lv 72 ~8H

Notice how at levels 64 and 72, it functions identically to the Kraken Club with 2~8 attacks. Put simply, it's a free Kraken Club at these levels. It's not a bad deal considering that Lord of Onzozo is not camped at all anymore, and that it costs 40.000.000M~ less than the real deal.

The reasons why this weapon is so overlooked, is because it requires your DRK to remain at Lv72 to use it as a Kraken Club. This deters people for several reasons, but something that a lot of people don't consider is the amount of very comparable gear/merits available to a Lv72 DRK.

Consider that DRK's club skill is rank C-. The actual club level difference pre-merits between 72 and 75 is 214 to 220. Also note, that 8/8 Club merits would be just as available to a DRK 72 as a DRK 75, if necessary.

Also consider that a DRK 72 can get incredibly close to the same haste as a DRK 75.

> Turban can be replaced with Patroclus's helm or Aurum armet.
> Homam can be almost completely replaced with Dusk (hands, feet).
> None of the HP pieces are exclusive to 75, except the turban.

Here's a sample setup for a Lv72 DRK with Octave Club:

Spoiler:

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#3 Mercurial Kris

#4 Ridill

#5 Bahamut's Zaghnal

#6 Fortitude Axe

#7 Rune Chopper

(More to come when I get the time.)

 

[Blazeoffury]

I could be 100% wrong, but I do believe that Ridill comes before Fort. Axe on this list, you seemed to have completely left it off.

 

[Tristam Green]

Don't forget about Bahamut's Zaghnal either. Nearly impossible to get, but still an exceptional tool.

 

[Diabllos]

I do believe that Ridill comes before Fort. Axe on this list

Right. Added.

Don't forget about Bahamut's Zaghnal either. Nearly impossible to get, but still an exceptional tool.

Although an impressive weapon, i'm unsure if it beats Fort. Axe's potential to attack ~4 times in one attack round (including Double-attack and virtue stone procs). It has seemingly low delay though, so i'll put it above Fort. Axe for now. Thanks.

 

[Bladewind]

wouldn't you have better results swapping the Gloom breastplate for Ares's Cuirass (STR+12 atk+24 HP+3%) and using Sable Cuisses in the leg slot? or can you unequip the Gloom breastplate once souleater is active and still keep the added 2%? I'm not sure how it works, it just seems you are sacrificing alot by using that in the body slot, would a Haub+1 be better even for the additional acc? I assume you're eating sushi considering the low natural skill of a drk using club so acc wont be a large issue, or do you eat a HP+ food?

Looking at the set (shield specifically) i guess the reason you use gloom body is 3% haste is worth more than any atk/str/HP, but i'm still interested as this is something i've never done personally.

 

[Tyrath]

Right. Added.

Although an impressive weapon, i'm unsure if it beats Fort. Axe's potential to attack ~4 times in one attack round (including Double-attack and virtue stone procs). It has seemingly low delay though, so i'll put it above Fort. Axe for now. Thanks.

I think bahamut zaghnal has a higher chance of doing 4 hits than fort axe does. And i'm pretty sure it beats fort out in dmg.


Edit: I never liked the idea of using sable cuisses. You sacrifice haste for that. For the body piece you just sacrifice 30~ (3 dmg) HP

 

[Diabllos]

wouldn't you have better results swapping the Gloom breastplate for Ares's Cuirass (STR+12 atk+24 HP+3%) and using Sable Cuisses in the leg slot?

Well, basically the STR and ATT wouldn't be doing anything noticeable. 99% of your damage is coming from the HP, with +170~ damage per hit coming from that alone. As DRK 75 you'll be able to use Homam legs (which is a clear winner due to it's haste and HP) which means you'll want to use Gloom Breastplate for body.

As far as Octave is concerned, it's a toss up between Gloom body and HP legs (vendor, dusk) or Sable cuisses and HP body (dusk, ares). Of course, there's the extra option of AF head with whatever on the body/legs, but then that loses 2% haste (which, although it may seem minor, is extremely important).

or can you unequip the Gloom breastplate once souleater is active and still keep the added 2%?

Unfortunately, you can't. It has to remain equipped for the duration, which kinda sucks.

I'm not sure how it works, it just seems you are sacrificing alot by using that in the body slot, would a Haub+1 be better even for the additional acc? I assume you're eating sushi considering the low natural skill of a drk using club so acc wont be a large issue, or do you eat a HP+ food?

It varies a lot on the player, the playstyle, and the group he/she's with, honestly. For example, some players choose /MNK for added HP, others /DRG for the ability to equip +6% more haste, etc. Bare in mind, though, that with even as low as 220 club skill, accuracy can be capped on any known mob simply with Souleater, Madrigals (even non SV'd) and Feint. An ideal 'zerk' setup would consist of 2 BRDs (whether rotating or not) for March X2 Madrigal X2. This is basically why the setups revolve around HP and haste. (Some groups are lucky enough to have a MNK use Mantra for HP boost, too. Although Drain II if unresisted can have the same if not better effect.) That's capped acc without food by the way, which means you can use HP food.

 

[Dowzer]

Yeah, I can attest to it's accuracy with the help of Madrigal and Feint, however, without those two, even with sushi it will miss a lot.

 

[Diabllos]

I think bahamut zaghnal has a higher chance of doing 4 hits than fort axe does. And i'm pretty sure it beats fort out in dmg.

Bahamut's Zaghnal isn't capable of hitting 4 times in one attack round. It functions similarly to Joyeuse or Soboro Sukehiro. Double attack can't proc on a "occasionally attack 2~3" hit. Fortitude Axe is different in this case, as it uses ammunition to proc, and therefore can stack with double attack, and triple attack (e.g. 2~6 hits using Homam Corazza, although incredibly rare of course). And as I say, base damage is pretty useless when 99% of your actual output is based on your HP alone.

 

[Rappa]

+25 acc (example build for k.club) for a C- weapon seems a bit low.

 

[Diabllos]

+25 acc (example build for k.club) for a C- weapon seems a bit low.

You're right, it is low. It'd be silly to use that little acc alone, but this setup is made to accompany double madrigal and/or feint. Together, even without accuracy food, your accuracy is capped on most if not all mobs.

 

[Tyrath]

Bahamut's Zaghnal isn't capable of hitting 4 times in one attack round. It functions similarly to Joyeuse or Soboro Sukehiro. Double attack can't proc on a "occasionally attack 2~3" hit. Fortitude Axe is different in this case, as it uses ammunition to proc, and therefore can stack with double attack, and triple attack (e.g. 2~6 hits using Homam Corazza, although incredibly rare of course). And as I say, base damage is pretty useless when 99% of your actual output is based on your HP alone.

I said that same thing a while ago and I was told a multi weapon like that can double attack, but only once in a round, and can never go past 8 in a round >.>

 

[Rappa]

You're right, it is low. It'd be silly to use that little acc alone, but this setup is made to accompany double madrigal and/or feint. Together, even without accuracy food, your accuracy is capped on most if not all mobs.

Which leads to the question of whether it's better to mix more accuracy to add on march/mad instead of 2x mad for higher-end enemies.

 

[Diabllos]

I said that same thing a while ago and I was told a multi weapon like that can double attack, but only once in a round, and can never go past 8 in a round >.>

Well, this is on the assumption that it functions the same way as Joyeuse. I know for a fact that Jailer weapons are special cases though.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Tyrath is right, it can pop a double attack in there on a multiple swing, I've had it hit 4 times in a row on a Bahamut zerg before, and yes BZ does come ahead of Fort. Axe as well.

 

[Diabllos]

Which leads to the question of whether it's better to mix more accuracy to add on march/mad instead of 2x mad for higher-end enemies.

Double bard. March X2 Mad X2. 'Zerk setups really can't be done well without heavy support.

 

[Diabllos]

Tyrath is right, it can pop a double attack in there on a multiple swing, I've had it hit 4 times in a row on a Bahamut zerg before, and yes BZ does come ahead of Fort. Axe as well.

Not that I don't trust you, but I believe you're mistaken. Or show me another thread that proves it, or screenshot. Every single "Occasionally attacks X" weapon does not stack with Double Attack, unless it's a Jailer weapon (unique because it uses ammunition instead).

 

[Tristam Green]

It varies a lot on the player, the playstyle, and the group he/she's with, honestly.

In hopes that this won't turn into a "no u, this drk setup is better than this one" argument, keep this in mind 100%.

That said, I am enjoying this thread immensely, and look forward to getting a lot out of it.

 

[Tyrath]

Not that I don't trust you, but I believe you're mistaken. Or show me another thread that proves it, or screenshot. Every single "Occasionally attacks X" weapon does not stack with Double Attack, unless it's a Jailer weapon (unique because it uses ammunition instead).

No I believe "occasionally attacks twice" except for jailer weapons don't attack twice.

The ones with 2-3 or 2-4 do. 2-8 kraken probably does too but it usually gets passed off as a normal hit.

If I get time sometime I will go test it on my baha scythe though.

 

[Diabllos]

The ones with 2-3 or 2-4 do. 2-8 kraken probably does too but it usually gets passed off as a normal hit.

This may help explain it. I know it's lolwiki though.

Double Attack will only yield one extra hit per activation even if using a multi-hit weapon such as Soboro Sukehiro or Kraken Club

For example, if double attack were to proc on a hit with kraken club, you would only swing twice. Weapons like KC, Joyeuse and Soboro's multi-attacks all count as one "hit". Whereas Jailer weapons' multi-hits count as another added "hit"; and thus double attack can proc on both individually, resulting in up to 4 hits.

Note: This is the same reason why /WAR is very inefficient while using Kraken/Octave, and to a lesser degree Soboro too.