Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

Of course, you can claim that the last time we argued, when I spent hours trying to explain and break down why I don't really give a shit and the absurdity of your expressed morality which condones some cheats and not others arbitrarily, that I convinced you of my beliefs and now you've chosen to adopt them as your own which would explain why you take this stance now.
 
As I stated previously....

Absolutely No Respect.

Better gear or not, If you gather enough people together ...
anything can be achieved.

Speaking for me only, my feelings on Kaizen ar as follows.
Sure when i started, i did some research & said wow maybe some day.
Didn't take me long to see what they are about. I have absolutely
no drive to be part of a ls thats continiously screws the specific community
we all happen to be existing in. Nor do I understand the desire to join
a group which in my mind is just "organized crime". Domination of certain
mobs, buying of stones, "I'm better than anyone" attitude--No !@#$'n thank
you.

I started this game to enjoy my time here and I still do, Helping others &
the community. In real life or on the net, there will always be a groups of
elitist asshats. Just a shame we have alot on our server, but hey what can u do! I for 1 just sit back & say f... it, their here to stay, let them be

But that in No Way means I have to respect them

Big kills lol - thats a real accomplishment in life, now get off your fat,
elitest, Stone-buyin, holier than thou attitude havin asses
and help a few others.

On that note if anyone needs a hand feel free to /tell me in game.[Apu]
If you feel the need to foam at the mouth and /tell me to... feel free.
So i can add to my evergrowing list off asshats.

...Commence this rediculous thread...
 
How the hell are we elitist? You think we don't help people? How do we "continulously" screw the community? The whole 8-10 autumnstones we have bought in a year, half coming from JP and half possibly coming from RMT, really screws the community? Ulli pops at least twice a day genius.

Are you in our LS? No, so fuck off and stop bitching about shit you know nothing about you jealous prick.
 
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If you *could* buy reasonable amounts of stones from legitimate players, then I'd have no problem with the practice. The fact of the matter is that well over 90% of the Ulli stones out there are sold by RMT, and if you think different you're delusional. You can argue that it's the same as buying O.Kotes, which is rather unrealistic, given that once a pair of Kotes enters the game it leaves only when dropped or when an account is lost, so who you're buying from is rather random to say the least. You can argue it's the same as buying Behemoth hides or Amemet skins, and there you have a little more foundation, though there's a crucial difference present there.

If you removed RMT from the game tomorrow, people would be camping and killing Behemoth and Amemet and selling those drops for gil on the AH anyway. For roughly the same prices.

Almost nobody will sell an Ulli stone except RMT. The extremely rare cases of stones going up for sale by legit players don't change that fact.

The logic being used is "well, we're spending our time doing more profitable things and using that profit to buy our stones, saving us time and effort, and it's not really our fault that the server as a whole suffers for our actions." Which, as I pointed out earlier, is almost exactly the same logic used by gilbuyers: "Well, I'm spending my money to buy gil, saving time and effort, and it's not really my fault that the server suffers for my actions".
 
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Firestreak said:
Rather I find it humorous that you feel cheating is immoral, but buying from cheaters is not. Really, what more is there to say?

On the level of morality….guess it comes down to this, and although people hate it, I’ll use a real life situation to show this kind of thinking.

Would I steal a brand new 42in Plasma TV? Hell no! >.> Yeah, honest. <.<

Would I buy one out of the back of a van for $200, knowing it most likely is stolen…even though I don’t know if these are the thieves, and did not witness the crime….ya damn right I would. Plasma…woot!

Is what I am doing immoral, yes. Will I still tell people stealing is wrong…well duh, it is. But will I feel guilty about my brand new 42in Plasma TV? Not for a second…who doesn’t love a “hook up”?

This is many people’s morality, it has existed in society since before written history… will it change? Nope. Will people vent in frustration…yes. Is anyone going to change anyone’s mind? Doubt it.

Can we get back to the important issues now…like melee red mages, chronic afkers, and real end game linkshell drama? Someone go steal someone’s Kirin…that makes for good reading.
 
...to quote Sean Connery...


Suck it Trabek... your mothers a whore!

Disscuss






I like pie
#366!!
 
Crosis said:
How the hell are we elitist? You think we don't help people? How do we "continulously" screw the community? The whole 8-10 autumnstones we have bought in a year, half coming from JP and half possibly coming from RMT, really screws the community? Ulli pops at least twice a day genius.

Are you in our LS? No, so fuck off and stop bitching about shit you know nothing about you jealous prick.

looks like apu hit a nerve. He was stating his opinion, that many others share.

To jamal. You had absolutly no proof of any wrong doing on my part, only what kabrina said, which she later retracted (its in my sig). But like u said, this thread isnt about that.

This is what it boils down to. Many people posting here attempted to call people out on cheating before. Jamal, Crosis, Skaw, Courtny, Neophytal and others were part of this group. They attempted to label people cheaters and in some cases are still trying to insinuate it. Now, they are turning around and defending a ls that basically payed someone to cheat for them. You dont keep the moral high ground by hiring people to cheat for you. You are in fact cheating. Ignorance is not a defence.

Now, kaizen admitted to buying uli stones. Almaut got on and said 'yes, we bought stones'. People are trying to defend them by saying things such as those stones might not be coming from RMT or feigning ignorance. The 'I didnt know that mule was RMT' holds as much weight as the chewbacca defence.

Lets say 1 random party gets 1 stone which the rmt dont get. Most of you people arent dumb. This type of occurance is rare. A single party has very very little chance of accomplishing this with RMT and other ls camping uli.

Now of the people that get the stone from a random pt, most would probably use the stone for their ls. Others might sell it, however, im sure they would look for a buyer instead of bazaar it. I wouldnt be suprised if the stone was sold to someone else in the party, never getting to bazaar status anyway. I remember when i xped in sky, i won an uli stone once (long long long ago). Right away, i got tells from just about every person in the party asking if i would sell the stone. Hell, b/c of the lag, i actually got /t before i knew i even had the stone.

But lets say the stone isnt sold to a party member. I'd be willing to wager that the person that won the stone has friends in a sky ls and knows that these stones are in high demand. Dont you think this person would sell their sstone to a friend's ls rather then a random person?

The point of this is this. The bazaars with uli stones in them are RMT. There is no way to get around this. Saying you didnt know they were RMT is not a defence. You people know what sky is like these days. You know that the legit ls that camp uli are going to use that stone. You know that a single pt has a very minute chance of getting a uli stone. You know that the majority of said pt would want the stones for their own ls.

Jamal, you kept wanting me to own up for something that i never did. Yet you are defending people that have admitted to buying stones from cheaters. Whats the deal with that?
 
Replace the word "elitist" with "defeatist" and you have a pretty good description of the gimp LSs that succumb to the RMTs because they are too scared of countercamping them.
 
Sirelrohir said:
l holds as much weight as the chewbacca defence.
Lawyer: I am so certin my client is not guilty i will show you why Chewy from Star Wars is better then big foot.


God i watch to much TV -_-
 
I'd like to point out to some of you who can't read well.

1. We do *NOT* buy from known RMT.

2. We do *NOT* buy from the RMT you refer to in sky.

3. We do *NOT* seek out RMT's to buy their stones to fuck of the precious economy (btw the economy got fucked when ps2 game was introduced, not RMT, that's when it started going downhil... that's a topic for another time)

4. We *DO* purchase stones from unknown people in BD.

5. We *DO* purchase general items from AH from unknown people.

6. We do *NOT* go out of our way to track who the sellers are in 4 & 5 (specifically who's mules they are)

7. Stop saying we buy from RMT, when several members have stated that we buy from unknown bazzars or jp players (sometimes both).
7(a). Do *NOT* assume that every level 1 mule out there is RMT, we *as ls* often sell stuff through our level 1 mules (b hides sometimes, do you automaticly assume it's RMT?)
7(b). Your logic is flawd, if buying from unknown source automaticly pinpoints to RMT, then you should never buy from AH. Same fucking concept.

8. You *ARE* more like to buy an O. kote originated through an RMT than you are to buy an ulli stone from RMT.

9. Restating a previous point - We do *NOT* buy from known RMT. We buy from level 1 bazzars. We do *NOT* know who owns these mules. Noone in their right mind would bother checking which mule belongs to whoom before buying.

10. I know you are thinking right now "Well you should check! Help our server!" then you should drop every RMT item you can afford on AH. It helps the server.

11. No, I'm not serious about #10, but I am using *YOUR* logic on that one.

12. Just because you camp Ulli now, does *NOT* mean others have not gone there before you and done it probably 10 times more than you will ever do.

13. Before you start judging us on how our sky gear is obtained, spend 3 years up there getting gear. (Some of you have, you may continue to criticise all you want.)

14. Since when is this game about waging wars?
14(a) Before RMT, everyone was talking about waging war on JP dominance. Who broke that one?
14(b) You may bring up other LS's advancing on the server, but remember who put the first pressure. And where majority of the other LS's learned from.

15. This game is about *FUN*. For some of us sky is no longer fun. Sky maybe your home for the next 3 years, and that's great. It's a chore for us. Getting byakko's haidate is like an O.hat to me. Repetitive task for people's new jobs.

16. Oh, yeah. We do *NOT* buy from RMT.

17. Why do so many of you feel you need to state that we are elitist? We never post "LAWL GUYS WE KILLED TIAMAT YESTERDAY" like every other linkshell did. We never rub our victories in people's faces. I bet you don't even know half the things Kaizen did before other shells. We help those that are nice to us. Not those that suck up, just those generally nice. Personal example: before I joined Kaizen, Almaut helped get quite a few Kaizen people to do evisceration for my friend. Xantrailles has helped me on quite few missions of CoP, just because he could. I'm not going to bore you with other examples, you get the point. Being able to kill stuff and having good gear is not being elitist.

18. Also, why do you guys have to let us know you never want to join our shell. You don't exactly see us extending an invitation to you. You don't like us? Great, I'm not exactly jumping to know you either. Is it because you want to jump on the bandwagon early, because you know you won't get in anyways?

19. JUST BECAUSE I CAN!!! Real life example. If you buy an illegal obtained item in RL, by law you would be required to turn that object in to police or atleast report it. I don't see many of you dropping your kotes or giving them back to gilsellers or relisting them. Oh I know, cause it's wasting money. You are also not letting others get fooled by trickery! (btw this example doesn't actually work, just like all the other ones you guys posted, demeaning by example, I'm almost a pro at "teh internit lawl")
 
Skaw said:
Appearantly not, since thats not anything close to the Chewbacca Defense.
There is 3 different ones i have seen so :rtfm:
 
Apu said:
Absolutely No Respect.

Better gear or not, If you gather enough people together ...
anything can be achieved.

Speaking for me only, my feelings on Kaizen ar as follows.
Sure when i started, i did some research & said wow maybe some day.
Didn't take me long to see what they are about. I have absolutely
no drive to be part of a ls thats continiously screws the specific community
we all happen to be existing in. Nor do I understand the desire to join
a group which in my mind is just "organized crime". Domination of certain
mobs, buying of stones, "I'm better than anyone" attitude--No !@#$'n thank
you.

I started this game to enjoy my time here and I still do, Helping others &
the community. In real life or on the net, there will always be a groups of
elitist asshats. Just a shame we have alot on our server, but hey what can u do! I for 1 just sit back & say f... it, their here to stay, let them be

But that in No Way means I have to respect them

Big kills lol - thats a real accomplishment in life, now get off your fat,
elitest, Stone-buyin, holier than thou attitude havin asses
and help a few others.

On that note if anyone needs a hand feel free to /tell me in game.[Apu]
If you feel the need to foam at the mouth and /tell me to... feel free.
So i can add to my evergrowing list off asshats.

...Commence this rediculous thread...


pretty sure I remember a guy by the name of Apu running his mouth in Caederva Mire at some Kaizen members about the issue at hand about a few weeks ago. We had a nice chat in tells where I explained pretty much the same thing almaut already did, and it ended with you being quite apologetic and saying something along the lines of:

"i harbor no ill will toward kaizen :D", and I vividly remember many smiley faces.

indecisive much?
 
delsus said:
There is 3 different ones i have seen so :rtfm:

2 of them are fucked up retarded knock offs then. Something you could probably easily follow compared to the original.

Please, hang yourself already.
 
Artem said:
I'd like to point out to some of you who can't read well.

1. We do *NOT* buy from known RMT.

2. We do *NOT* buy from the RMT you refer to in sky.

3. We do *NOT* seek out RMT's to buy their stones to fuck of the precious economy (btw the economy got fucked when ps2 game was introduced, not RMT, that's when it started going downhil... that's a topic for another time)

4. We *DO* purchase stones from unknown people in BD.

5. We *DO* purchase general items from AH from unknown people.

6. We do *NOT* go out of our way to track who the sellers are in 4 & 5 (specifically who's mules they are)

7. Stop saying we buy from RMT, when several members have stated that we buy from unknown bazzars or jp players (sometimes both).
7(a). Do *NOT* assume that every level 1 mule out there is RMT, we *as ls* often sell stuff through our level 1 mules (b hides sometimes, do you automaticly assume it's RMT?)
7(b). Your logic is flawd, if buying from unknown source automaticly pinpoints to RMT, then you should never buy from AH. Same fucking concept.

8. You *ARE* more like to buy an O. kote originated through an RMT than you are to buy an ulli stone from RMT.

9. Restating a previous point - We do *NOT* buy from known RMT. We buy from level 1 bazzars. We do *NOT* know who owns these mules. Noone in their right mind would bother checking which mule belongs to whoom before buying.

10. I know you are thinking right now "Well you should check! Help our server!" then you should drop every RMT item you can afford on AH. It helps the server.

11. No, I'm not serious about #10, but I am using *YOUR* logic on that one.

12. Just because you camp Ulli now, does *NOT* mean others have not gone there before you and done it probably 10 times more than you will ever do.

13. Before you start judging us on how our sky gear is obtained, spend 3 years up there getting gear. (Some of you have, you may continue to criticise all you want.)

14. Since when is this game about waging wars?
14(a) Before RMT, everyone was talking about waging war on JP dominance. Who broke that one?
14(b) You may bring up other LS's advancing on the server, but remember who put the first pressure. And where majority of the other LS's learned from.

15. This game is about *FUN*. For some of us sky is no longer fun. Sky maybe your home for the next 3 years, and that's great. It's a chore for us. Getting byakko's haidate is like an O.hat to me. Repetitive task for people's new jobs.

16. Oh, yeah. We do *NOT* buy from RMT.

17. Why do so many of you feel you need to state that we are elitist? We never post "LAWL GUYS WE KILLED TIAMAT YESTERDAY" like every other linkshell did. We never rub our victories in people's faces. I bet you don't even know half the things Kaizen did before other shells. We help those that are nice to us. Not those that suck up, just those generally nice. Personal example: before I joined Kaizen, Almaut helped get quite a few Kaizen people to do evisceration for my friend. Xantrailles has helped me on quite few missions of CoP, just because he could. I'm not going to bore you with other examples, you get the point. Being able to kill stuff and having good gear is not being elitist.

18. Also, why do you guys have to let us know you never want to join our shell. You don't exactly see us extending an invitation to you. You don't like us? Great, I'm not exactly jumping to know you either. Is it because you want to jump on the bandwagon early, because you know you won't get in anyways?

19. JUST BECAUSE I CAN!!! Real life example. If you buy an illegal obtained item in RL, by law you would be required to turn that object in to police or atleast report it. I don't see many of you dropping your kotes or giving them back to gilsellers or relisting them. Oh I know, cause it's wasting money. You are also not letting others get fooled by trickery! (btw this example doesn't actually work, just like all the other ones you guys posted, demeaning by example, I'm almost a pro at "teh internit lawl")

Well Artem have a point :ph34r:


But remember people who reply here like drama, and want their post count >.> <.< i bet most of them don't even cares about Kaizen buying stone and such

People <3 drama, they like to argue with each other, and reader "LoL" about it, that is all ^^
 
Skaw said:
2 of them are fucked up retarded knock offs then. Something you could probably easily follow compared to the original.

Please, hang yourself already.
1) allsp.com shows it so yeah
2) i know the others are rip offs because its so tacky its got to be
 
Sirelrohir said:
looks like apu hit a nerve. He was stating his opinion, that
many others share.

And Jamal hits a nerve for you everytime he brings up you and your friends flee hacking lol. How's racist Quitita doing btw?

Sirelrohir said:
This is what it boils down to. Many people posting here attempted to call people out on cheating before. Jamal, Crosis, Skaw, Courtny, Neophytal and others were part of this group. They attempted to label people cheaters and in some cases are still trying to insinuate it. Now, they are turning around and defending a ls that basically payed someone to cheat for them. You dont keep the moral high ground by hiring people to cheat for you. You are in fact cheating. Ignorance is not a defence.

I like how you are comparing Flee hacking and Botting which is deliberate cheating to buying an item in someones bazaar that MIGHT be an RMT. Stop buying all those RMT camped items then, you MIGHT be buying from an RMT. Okote, Cross-counters, Cassie Earring, Bhides, the list goes on. Ignorance through the AH isn't a defense either.

Sirelrohir said:
Now, kaizen admitted to buying uli stones. Almaut got on and said 'yes, we bought stones'. People are trying to defend them by saying things such as those stones might not be coming from RMT or feigning ignorance. The 'I didnt know that mule was RMT' holds as much weight as the chewbacca defence.

And no where did Almaut say we bought stones from RMT you retard. He said we bought some stones from lvl 1 Bazaar mules in BD and from a disbanded LS. Think you need to learn how to read. Let me refresh your memory.

Almaut said:
Well, to start off with, does Kaizen buy Autumnstones? Yes, we do but that isn't the entire story. More recently, we have been buying stones through bazaars. However, roughly a year ago we actually had discussions and dealings with both NA and JP linkshells to purchase stones. As of today, two of these linkshells have disbanded and 1 is still active. I would like to point out again that all our recent transactions were done through bazaar. We have not sought out famous RMT names when checking bazaars nor have we searched Ru'Avitau and asked said names if they were sellings stones as some have implied.

Sirelrohir said:
The point of this is this. The bazaars with uli stones in them are RMT. There is no way to get around this. Saying you didnt know they were RMT is not a defence. You people know what sky is like these days. You know that the legit ls that camp uli are going to use that stone. You know that a single pt has a very minute chance of getting a uli stone. You know that the majority of said pt would want the stones for their own ls.

Bullshit. There is a bazaar right NOW in BD that is not a gilseller selling a stone. Go find it, Acdc. It's Luicfers mule, so wrong again you twit. You people who think JPs dont sell Autumnstones are clueless. Not every LS farms Sky and has Ulli as there god almighty.

Sirelrohir said:
Jamal, you kept wanting me to own up for something that i
never did. Yet you are defending people that have admitted to
buying stones from cheaters. Whats the deal with that?

Again no where have we admitted to buying stones from known RMT. But your friends do cheat though that much is fact.

Fun fact about Sire:
Hey everyone, Sirelahor will send you tells if you are in same zone as his friends and try to accuse you of stealing HNMs. Remember when AV first popped on our server? Sire was there sending Kaizen and other LS's tells demanding WHY we were there. How dare we go check out AV popping the first time on our server. His best friends for life were there first!!!!
 
Artem said:
I'd like to point out to some of you who can't read well.

1. We do *NOT* buy from known RMT.

2. We do *NOT* buy from the RMT you refer to in sky.

3. We do *NOT* seek out RMT's to buy their stones to fuck of the precious economy (btw the economy got fucked when ps2 game was introduced, not RMT, that's when it started going downhil... that's a topic for another time)

4. We *DO* purchase stones from unknown people in BD.

5. We *DO* purchase general items from AH from unknown people.

6. We do *NOT* go out of our way to track who the sellers are in 4 & 5 (specifically who's mules they are)

7. Stop saying we buy from RMT, when several members have stated that we buy from unknown bazzars or jp players (sometimes both).
7(a). Do *NOT* assume that every level 1 mule out there is RMT, we *as ls* often sell stuff through our level 1 mules (b hides sometimes, do you automaticly assume it's RMT?)
7(b). Your logic is flawd, if buying from unknown source automaticly pinpoints to RMT, then you should never buy from AH. Same fucking concept.

8. You *ARE* more like to buy an O. kote originated through an RMT than you are to buy an ulli stone from RMT.

9. Restating a previous point - We do *NOT* buy from known RMT. We buy from level 1 bazzars. We do *NOT* know who owns these mules. Noone in their right mind would bother checking which mule belongs to whoom before buying.

10. I know you are thinking right now "Well you should check! Help our server!" then you should drop every RMT item you can afford on AH. It helps the server.

11. No, I'm not serious about #10, but I am using *YOUR* logic on that one.

12. Just because you camp Ulli now, does *NOT* mean others have not gone there before you and done it probably 10 times more than you will ever do.

13. Before you start judging us on how our sky gear is obtained, spend 3 years up there getting gear. (Some of you have, you may continue to criticise all you want.)

14. Since when is this game about waging wars?
14(a) Before RMT, everyone was talking about waging war on JP dominance. Who broke that one?
14(b) You may bring up other LS's advancing on the server, but remember who put the first pressure. And where majority of the other LS's learned from.

15. This game is about *FUN*. For some of us sky is no longer fun. Sky maybe your home for the next 3 years, and that's great. It's a chore for us. Getting byakko's haidate is like an O.hat to me. Repetitive task for people's new jobs.

16. Oh, yeah. We do *NOT* buy from RMT.

17. Why do so many of you feel you need to state that we are elitist? We never post "LAWL GUYS WE KILLED TIAMAT YESTERDAY" like every other linkshell did. We never rub our victories in people's faces. I bet you don't even know half the things Kaizen did before other shells. We help those that are nice to us. Not those that suck up, just those generally nice. Personal example: before I joined Kaizen, Almaut helped get quite a few Kaizen people to do evisceration for my friend. Xantrailles has helped me on quite few missions of CoP, just because he could. I'm not going to bore you with other examples, you get the point. Being able to kill stuff and having good gear is not being elitist.

18. Also, why do you guys have to let us know you never want to join our shell. You don't exactly see us extending an invitation to you. You don't like us? Great, I'm not exactly jumping to know you either. Is it because you want to jump on the bandwagon early, because you know you won't get in anyways?

19. JUST BECAUSE I CAN!!! Real life example. If you buy an illegal obtained item in RL, by law you would be required to turn that object in to police or atleast report it. I don't see many of you dropping your kotes or giving them back to gilsellers or relisting them. Oh I know, cause it's wasting money. You are also not letting others get fooled by trickery! (btw this example doesn't actually work, just like all the other ones you guys posted, demeaning by example, I'm almost a pro at "teh internit lawl")

Points 1-5. Those 'unknown' mules selling the uli stones are RMT; Quit attempting to use ignorance to defend yourself. People have talked about b. hides. those can come from multiple places such bcnms. Uli stones come from one and only one place. A place that is monopolized by RMT. Like i said earlier, anyone that is camping uli is either going to use that stone for their own ls, or is a RMT. YES its that simple.

As for point 13. So your tired of being in sky. boo hoo, cry me a river. You dont think every other ls up their is sick of that shit too? Only difference is they dont hire cheaters to do their dirty work for them.

The fact of the matter is YOU DO BUY FROM RMT. RMT cheat to get those stones. Your ls is paying people to cheat on their behalf.
 
I reiterate, the vast majority of Ulli stones sold are sold by RMT.

Did I say all? No.

I said the vast majority. Simple logic dictates that. No functioning NA shell will sell them, nobody in their right mind will camp Ulli for gil casually given the RMT presence there, and very few people XP up there anymore.

So yes, maybe 1 in 10, perhaps a little more, probably a lot less, stones are sold by legit players.

"We don't buy from *known* RMT" isn't a valid excuse. You know damn well where those stones are coming from, even if you choose not to admit it.
 
Artem's post sums it up.

I'm not kissing kaizen's ass, I just see how fucking ridiculous of a flame this shit is. His points echo what I've been saying since my first post.
 
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