Stop buying Ulli stones, you *#%*tards

[Myrid]

Just to play devil's advocate...
Prove they aren't?

Innocent until proven guilty if you live in the US.

 

[Legomyeggo]

Innocent until proven guilty if you live in the US.

OJ did it.

 

[Caerloc]

Why would they (RMT) go to sky if it wasn't to sell pop items?


I don't think they can kill the gods... and I am pretty sure I haven't seen rmt with kirin title...

Open your eyes then. They have several Haidate, or had if they arent banned by now, and all other abjs and stuff to, in the extent that they use money to uncurse it. If noone buys the stone's, they pop the gods, sell the money-items, and abjs and god-armor in the extent that they have a buyer.
Haidate alone goes for 15M on most servers.

 

[Firestreak]

15 mil? try 5

Not off the bazaar that Crosis was flaunting a few pages back as a JP selling a stone.

!5 mill, and Japanese text in the bazaar text window. If I recall not a level 1 either.

But... those aren't the stones you're buying...?

 

[neophytal]

15 mil? try 5

don't forget the autumnstone from some guy running to do an ENM in attowa when we were at tiamat.

an autumnstone for 3 million from a jp player with legit shell.

oh wait, i forgot, legit players that sell autumnstones dont exist.....

 

[Sirelrohir]

It's the same type of accusation, without any proof and just based on assumption. My LS has killed Ulli within the last month without anyone else in the room, no CC at all. It happens, stop acting like they're saying they just magically get the stones to appear in their inventory. We also don't camp every hour of the day, so there's likely more times with very little if any CC.

Honestly I'd be stunned if they hadn't bought some from RMT, but until you can actually prove every level 1 mule in BD is a RMT mule; you have no proof of anything.

Did u guys sell the stone? Or did u use it?

Your right, i will admit that i cannot prove that every level 1 mule in bd is rmt. However, i can give reasons as to why i think every lvl 1 mule selling a ULI stone is, and let people make up their own minds. And you are welcome to argue against me.

 

[Artem]

Oh wait Artem, I forgot you weren't even in Kaizen during that time. You were the guy who came in later and MPKed me along with those evil JP with Halflife right? I get so confused sometimes.

Browny points for quoting yourself

Also, just because you killed it a couple of times does not mean you put pressure. It means you tried. Where's OH now? Where's all the results of your pressure?

 

[Myrid]

OJ did it.

OJ's one case. There's thousands of others. All can apply to this.

 

[Firestreak]

Browny points for quoting yourself

Also, just because you killed it a couple of times does not mean you put pressure. It means you tried. Where's OH now? Where's all the results of your pressure?

I didn't claim OH to be the best shell ever or to have killed the most Fafnir's. I'm just pointing out you talk as if you're the first NA shell to have gone up against the Japanese shells when it's not true even in the slightest.

 

[Bajaratt]

Did u guys sell the stone? Or did u use it?

Your right, i will admit that i cannot prove that every level 1 mule in bd is rmt. However, i can give reasons as to why i think every lvl 1 mule selling a ULI stone is, and let people make up their own minds. And you are welcome to argue against me.

We used it, but then our LS didn't break up or anything. I don't act like I speak for every LS or everyone on the server though, so I'm not saying that everyone will do the exact same thing that I did in that situation.

That's along the same lines as Jamal showing that you refused to log on during a temp ban in which several of your LS members were hit, claiming "real life reasons," then logged back onto the game as soon as the temp ban was up; and letting people make up their own minds.

 

[Zalbag]

Easy solution to the problem is hoping SE one day makes all Sky God pop items R/E. I think its very humorous that all you people defend buying the stones cause you feel bad for them not having the time to camp ulli. I have a more noble idea, why not feel bad for the guy busting his ass camping ulli for his stone insted of taking the easy way out? I've spent countless hours camping ulli for my damn osode and haidate. I just fail to see how any of you people buying stones have any self respect for yourself wearing gear you half-asses got versus the guy like me that busted my ass for my shit. When it comes down to it, people that buy stones are just greedy, too damn lazy,and selfish for not taking into account how they are affecting their fellow gamers.

Everyone of the haidates we've gotten so far have gone to a person who helped countless melee's get their osode's and haidates. You what, you may have been up there farming countless hours but i'm betting unless you were a mage you spent most of the fights sitting around watching you mages get you your haidate. Try being a mage only job in sky for 3 years. At least you had something to aim for up there. Try camping ulli for 3 years when then best thing you get out of sky is A hands.

And as for all you people claiming that no one would sell an ulli stone go ahead and ask your mage only friends. Cause i'm pretty sure they'd get a heck of alot more out of the gil then the stone.

Single pt's can't claim Ulli? I should tell my friend that who's been up there almost every day CCing rmt's with windower up controlling 3 characters. He's claimed about 3 like that. I'm not even in his shell and have been up there helping him on more then one occasion. Just because one item holds such a great value to you don't assume it still holds the same to every other player. Namly the number of jp people who have been done with sky for sometime.

 

[sirivalin]

OJ's one case. There's thousands of others. All can apply to this.

Did OJ do it? I think somewhere out there...there is a 1 armed midget, missing his glove...he is the guilty one...he is.

 

[Trelution]

Thread. Set. Match. Artem

But remember people who reply here like drama, and want their post count >.> <.< i bet most of them don't even cares about Kaizen buying stone and such

Which is exactly why a majority of Kaizen doesn't bother with the Flameboard or QCDN. They know nothing short of an atomic blast will change someone's mind on here

That being said, Endgame LSs are like a business. You are always striving to get more out of the time you put it. The way ulli is set now, it is just not a smart use of time anymore. I've have spent many countless days at Ulli sitting 10+ hours and NEVER seeing him. In those 10 hours I could have very well farm/crafted enough gil to fund a stone. And I doubt highly if all of these linkshells had the means to, they wouldn't buy stones themselves. Is it a smart "business" move? You bet. Is it the so called "moral high road"? Probably not.

The logic thrown about in this thread has gotten downright silly. So most of you equate buying Stones from POSSIBLE rmt the same as buying gil. How in the 7 layers of Hell do you come up with that? No REAL money is changing hands. We use gil we get from other HNM kills to fund the stones we do buy. With this logic you are saying that anyone that didn't camp NM for Kotes, BCNM for D.ingot., kill arthro for D. Cloths, etc etc and instead farm/crafted for gil to purchase them, didn't earn their gear. Can I get a WTF?

Also glad you guys are keeping tabs on all the lvl one mules out there. I have 2 Lvl one mules I toss in downs sometimes. Guess I'm a gilseller?

Bottom line I play this game for fun as I hope that all of you still do. And the fact that we are arguing ethics and morals of an online world is just plain silly.

Oh and Also...

 

[Quieren]

Everyone of the haidates we've gotten so far have gone to a person who helped countless melee's get their osode's and haidates. You what, you may have been up there farming countless hours but i'm betting unless you were a mage you spent most of the fights sitting around watching you mages get you your haidate. Try being a mage only job in sky for 3 years. At least you had something to aim for up there. Try camping ulli for 3 years when then best thing you get out of sky is A hands.

Check my jobs before you attempt to flame back at me, I have them clearly in my sig comment. Lets see, what did i do during byakko fights... Hmmm I tanked him at times.... I nuked him at times.... Hell i even kept the tank up on my whm.... not quite sure what you're failing err attempting to prove here.

 

[Zalbag]

I didnt once say you didn't have a job. No where in my post does it say you did sit out. It simply said that if you didnt you would've been on the sidelines. I wasn't trying to flame you. I personally hate drama, I never set out to offend you and i'm sorry you took it that way. But the truth is most melee's don't even get in on the bulk of their items.

 

[Quieren]

I didnt once say you didn't have a job. No where in my post does it say you did sit out. It simply said that if you didnt you would've been on the sidelines. I wasn't trying to flame you. I personally hate drama, I never set out to offend you and i'm sorry you took it that way. But the truth is most melee's don't even get in on the bulk of their items.

Then they need to level other jobs to be more useful, hince my wide variety of job choices.

 

[Sirelrohir]

We used it, but then our LS didn't break up or anything. I don't act like I speak for every LS or everyone on the server though, so I'm not saying that everyone will do the exact same thing that I did in that situation.

That's along the same lines as Jamal showing that you refused to log on during a temp ban in which several of your LS members were hit, claiming "real life reasons," then logged back onto the game as soon as the temp ban was up; and letting people make up their own minds.

I'd like to reiterate that i am not in anteres. Never have been. I dont do dynamis with them. I do limbus with some of them; however, the limbus group was started long long ago.

However, there is a difference between the 2. In one, i was baselessly accused. Its the same as me saying 'baja hacks' (he doesnt people, im just using his name as an example). Its just hearsay and mudslinging. Yes, i didnt log on. But again, i wont give in to demands of some kid to do as im told. Take that for what you will.

In the RMT uli case, there is an unofficial census (for lack of a better term) of people that are up there; there is a rough count of where the stones are going. Thats were the supposition is coming from.

 

[Marajade]

Prove it.

Because this bottleneck around Uli exists. Previously, there were less LS's up in sky, so an 8 hour Uli was an inconvienience, not the norm. And due to less Ls's, less people actualy trying for it. When i started sky with RevESP, we could just send 6 people to Uli and kill PH's. Once sky got too crowded, you usualy had to send a larger group up to watch for the pop while others killed. Now with the addition of Gilsellers that are there 97% of the time, the amout of "free" Ulli's is down to zero.

99.99% of stones you see for sale, will be GS mules. To believe anything else is willfull ignorance.


Disprove it.

 

[Firestreak]

Which is exactly why a majority of Kaizen doesn't bother with the Flameboard or QCDN. They know nothing short of an atomic blast will change someone's mind on here

There are ways to go about changing people's mind. Usually depends on how much respect you treat the person you're arguing with to if they're going to listen to what you're saying or simply search through your post for a way to counter your argument.

That being said, Endgame LSs are like a business. You are always striving to get more out of the time you put it. The way ulli is set now, it is just not a smart use of time anymore. I've have spent many countless days at Ulli sitting 10+ hours and NEVER seeing him. In those 10 hours I could have very well farm/crafted enough gil to fund a stone. And I doubt highly if all of these linkshells had the means to, they wouldn't buy stones themselves. Is it a smart "business" move? You bet. Is it the so called "moral high road"? Probably not.

I am guessing that several linkshells that don't buy stones have the means to be able to. Especially at the prices Artmen claims you get them at. If you want to talk about efficient time use as reasoning that's fine. All I'm saying is don't rant at other people, ever, who are involved with RMT if they're simply trying to use their time more efficiently cause they see it as a business.

The logic thrown about in this thread has gotten downright silly. So most of you equate buying Stones from POSSIBLE rmt the same as buying gil. How in the 7 layers of Hell do you come up with that? No REAL money is changing hands. We use gil we get from other HNM kills to fund the stones we do buy. With this logic you are saying that anyone that didn't camp NM for Kotes, BCNM for D.ingot., kill arthro for D. Cloths, etc etc and instead farm/crafted for gil to purchase them, didn't earn their gear. Can I get a WTF?

I don't see it as the same as buying gil, from the most important standpoint in that you're not breaking the Terms of Service at any time. It's not against the rules to buy from RMT or even camp with RMT, merely to be a RMT. However it is an association, so as long as we can agree that association doesn't transfer guilt then we agree you're not actually guilty. However that's not the stand your people have been taking.

Also glad you guys are keeping tabs on all the lvl one mules out there. I have 2 Lvl one mules I toss in downs sometimes. Guess I'm a gilseller?

People have only said level 1 mules selling stones are almost all RMT. People have been arguing there are level 1 mules they have that aren't RMT. Well, they aren't selling stones. People have argued they've seen Japanese selling stones... well... they aren't level 1... You're building a straw man argument out of what's being said, making the claim more ridiculous so you can more easily refute it. That's alright though, it's your standards and it's up to YOU what you want to do. My own standards say, buy from whoever sells cheapest. Those are my standards.

Bottom line I play this game for fun as I hope that all of you still do. And the fact that we are arguing ethics and morals of an online world is just plain silly.

I'd argue that it's silly how much we all PLAY an online game in the first place. I beat mself up over it all the time, but yeah... when you're the one on the hot seat it seems a lot sillier than when you're the one on the attack.

 

[Rappa]

So basically, to sum up this entire topic in one word.... ignorance. On both sides. Yeah.