Store TP Calculations

[Araelus]

Getting 100% TP with a 450 delay weapon:

9 hits - 0 Store TP
8 hits - 9 Store TP
7 hits - 25 Store TP
6 hits - 45 Store TP
5 hits - 74 Store TP

Here's an interesting problem.

At level 30, Samurai has 15 native Store TP, and Rajas Ring boosts this to 20. But +20 doesn't do anything towards less hits to 100TP.

At level 50, Samurai has 20 (native) + 5 (Rajas) which reaches the seven hit mark. But at level 50, you also gain access to the Shinimusha JSE, which total to +15 Store TP.

Thus at level 50, Samurai can have 40 Store TP. Which may not be an improvement over 25 Store TP!

The whole "effected by TP" may only work for the threshold values of 100/200/300, and nothing in-between. Or, it may work at every value of 10*n, or it may be that every single TP you have is important. Certainly Slugwinder appears to have more accuracy at 120TP than 100TP. But is there a test of this? And besides, I'm less concerned with that particular WS (though it may provide useful data) as I am with the Damage-TP weaponskills.

I was testing damage on E.Ronfaure Wild Rabbits (some of the few mobs in the game to all pop at exactly the same level) today, but at Samurai level 31 I'm not far enough to completely eliminate damage fluctuations to see if the TP is modifying damage in between the 100*n levels. No other job really has the capability to consistently fire WS at exact TP amounts. I may try to mess around with it on RDM, however, using approximate TP levels (say, just above 200% and 300%) and with enough samples I can just run the numbers.

If the game only cares about 100/200/300TP, then any Store TP which does not affect the hits-to-100% is pointless. In this case, I (and every other low-level Samurai) will be better off keeping a Jujitsu Gi until Jaridah Peti. If it is the case that each TP counts, we should be using some combination of Shinimusha Haidate and Hara-Ate with other gear.

This also affects the choice of TPing in Myochin Haidate or Shinimusha Haidate post level 54.

Does anyone have any data on this, or could they run tests? Using Gekko/Yukikaze/Kasha would be ideal since it's one hit, you should be using SA for the hit damage to ensure 100% hit + critical, and that also ensures capped damage. I was sure something like this would have been tested before now, but all the data I saw on blogs was dealing with 300TP and the sea gorgets, etc.

Thanks.

 

[CmdrFly]

The whole "effected by TP" may only work for the threshold values of 100/200/300, and nothing in-between. Or, it may work at every value of 10*n, or it may be that every single TP you have is important. Certainly Slugwinder appears to have more accuracy at 120TP than 100TP. But is there a test of this?

I'm pretty sure WS dmg is affected per-percent. I remember I ran short of Sleep Pots one Kirin run back when Spirits Within was "da bomb", and my SW damage was lower at 275% than it was at 300%.

That is probably the best WS to test this with. Go /whm and just before you WS, ensure you're at 100% HP. See if there's a diff between 102% and 114%.

 

[Mai Ikari]

I know that Spirits is directly dependent on TP, but there's some debate as to the other WS's. At the very least, there's proof that it's not a linear gain from 200% to 300% in damage on, say, Gekko. (like 250% gekko doesn't have a 2.25 TP mod)

 

[Orestes]

It's very hard to find a lot of information on this question, but it's not that hard to test out. I'd be willing to mess around on bunnies in west ron or anywhere else I have capped PDIF if you like. (bat pets @ lower delkfut)

From my experience each WS acts differently based on what type of stat it increases.

Gekko/Kasha/Yukki have varying DMG output based on your TP. @ 100TP you get an fTP mod of 1.5, and it goes up by .5 for every 100TP you have. So, a 300TP Gekko will have an fTP mod of 2.5, and a 299TP Gekko will have an fTP mod of 2.0.

Weaponskills with other mods besides pure DMG seem to function on a more "curved" formula. Rampage for example has crit+0% @ 100TP, crit +20% @ 200TP, and crit +40% @ 300TP.

With Rampage your crit is the same as your melee hits @ 100% TP, but it increases by approx 1% per 5 TP. Backhand Blow and Blade Jin are similar I would imagine. WS's like Sidewinder have increased accuracy based on TP, so I would also guess that it's based on more of a "curve".

Pertaining to your reasons for asking. I would not strive for anything more then a 7-hit 100TP setup until you reach lvl 75 and gain access to Store TP merits. Mostly because you'll be sacraficing acc/attk in order to get that Store TP, and it's just not worth it in the lower lvls when +attk actually does something significant.

Once you hit 75 it's a different story. 6-hit setups are extremely effective since you only have to wear 1 piece of Hachiman equipment to obtain it (with full merits + rajas) and you'll most likely be using a Hagun which makes spamming 100TP WS's a lot more effective.

 

[Araelus]

Thank you for the feedback.

I think that the behaviour of Great Katana weapon skills with the tiered fTP modifier means that the value of Shinimusha Haidate is unfounded. (I thought, vaguely, that there was some WS that tracked based on exact TP. Thanks for the reminder of which one it is, CmdrFly.) I would still appreciate some numbers from capped pDIF fights - and Orestes, the reason I mention Wild Rabbits is because they are all level zero. The Forest Hares in the same zones are not, nor are the Gigas's Bats.

However, I guess lv50 Samurai JSE pants are only usefull to people without Rajas Rings, since in that situation it is a trade-off between 5 attack (Republican Subligar) and a 7-hit setup (JSE pants).

Meaning I should sell mine before the price crashes... >_> and that the Shinimusha Hara-Ate simply is not worth the bother of subligar farming!

 

[Mai Ikari]

The price won't crash, because people have known that those are only good for the rajas-less since... before they existed. <_<

 

[Araelus]

Please excuse me for being extremely behind the curve. <_<

 

[Mai Ikari]

Seeing as how there's still a market for them, I'd say there isn't a curve at all. >_>

 

[Stouter]

You will get a boost from that extra 5 TP or whatever for any ws with a TP mod, but 9/10 times you'll be better off trading the excess Store TP for accuracy, attack, or haste.

 

[Mai Ikari]

10 times out of 10. The only TP mod that 5 TP might help is Sidewinder, and if that wants to miss, it's gonna miss regardless.

 

[Khajit]

Using the information from what you are saying in theory a SAM can eat carbonara and get a 6 hit build at lv 50 if they use every peice of storetp gear availiable.

 

[Araelus]

Yes, they can eat Carbonara and get to 6-hits at level fifty. It is nice that the food includes STR and Attack boosts.

I'm not a food expert (yet?) but ... consider the price of Sole Sushi and Squid Sushi +1 as well as mob evasion. Level fifty has the Soboro Sukehiro, and - sorry if you're leveling Samurai without one, folks - but if I'm swinging on average twice a round, I care more about connecting ~15% more hits and having +4 acc, +5 att from body/legs than needing one less hit to 100%TP.

Besides, Tachi: Yukikaze (the first spammable WS?) is level 60, and anyone who wears Store TP+9 over a Hauby does not deserve to be playing Samurai.

 

[Khajit]

I was unaware samurai could wear a hauby before lv 59.

 

[Araelus]

Besides, Tachi: Yukikaze (the first spammable WS?) is level 60, and anyone who wears Store TP+9 over a Hauby does not deserve to be playing Samurai.

They sure can wear it at level 60.

 

[phishn]

"Once you hit 75 it's a different story. 6-hit setups are extremely effective since you only have to wear 1 piece of Hachiman equipment to obtain it (with full merits + rajas) and you'll most likely be using a Hagun which makes spamming 100TP WS's a lot more effective."

You need +11 Store TP in gear, food, etc at level 75 with full Store TP merits for a 6-hit build, for melee swings and WS hit, with 450 delay. Hachiman Sune-Ate, Rajas, Brutal give you that +11 worn full time. I swap out Hachiman Sune-Ate for Rutter Sabatons, and Shura Togi for Hachiman Domaru for WS. The +11 Store TP is still satisfied.

:::Edit there seems to be conflicting information on the Store TP for Carbonara. 2 sites say +4 Store TP, somepage says +6 Store TP. Either way, the -2 Store TP, if true, still satisfies this build for 6 hit below:::

I have recently met the conditions for a 6 hit build at level 75 with 420 delay, using unlocked Michibishia which parsed very well. Came close, but did not surpass Hagun in a comparison. To do so, you need +22 Store TP in gear/food with capped Store TP merits at level 75 for the 420 delay weapon. I used Carbonara (Store TP +6), Rajas Ring (Store TP +5), Hachiman Kote (Store TP +8 ), Brutal Earing (Store TP +1), Hachiman Sune-Ate (Store TP +5) = Store TP +25 for TP build which meets the +22 Store TP criteria

Carbonara (Store TP +6), Rajas Ring (Store TP +5), Hachiman Kote (Store TP +8 ), Brutal Earing (Store TP +1), Hachiman Domaru (Store TP +6) = Store TP +26 for WS which meets the +22 Store TP criteria.

Here is a good resource for calculating and explaining TP

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/TP

At level 50, your Store TP is +20 from traits which is 13.8 TP per hit, a 8 hit build with 450 delay weapon.

To satisfy a 7 hit build with 450 delay at level 50, you need +5 Store TP from gear/food which you are correct about, the Rajas Ring is all you need to satisfy 7 hit at level 50, 14.3 TP per hit, 7 hits.

To get a 6 hit build at level 50 requires a total of +46 Store TP from trait, food, gear, for 450 delay. This would require +26 Store TP in gear/food.

Rajas Ring +5
Shinimusha Haidate +6
Shinimusha Hara Ate +9
Carbonara +4? or +6?
= +24 or +26 Store TP

This setup with Carbonara MAY work for 6 hit at level 50, I need to confirm if Carbonara is +4 Store TP or +6 Store TP, I will test in Sacrarium. If 6 hit works, its +6, if not, its +4

 

[phishn]

Edited previous post. Anyone know if Carbonara is Store TP +4 or Store TP +6? There is conflicting info on this stat for this food.

 

[phishn]

Confirmed that Carbonara is Store TP +6, NOT Store TP +4, therefore, at level 50 the following setup will give you a 6 hit build with 450 delay weapon.

To get a 6 hit build at level 50 requires a total of +46 Store TP from trait, food, gear, for 450 delay. This would require +26 Store TP in gear/food.

Rajas Ring +5
Shinimusha Haidate +6
Shinimusha Hara Ate +9
Carbonara +6

Store TP +26, add in +20 from trait = +46

 

[Phraust]

See... Here's where I get kinda fuzzy...

I like Store-TP and all, but I get this odd feeling it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Either I could:

a) pile on Store-TP gear and get let's say a 6 hit set.

or...

b) pile on Haste gear, and in the same time as a six hit set do a 7 hit set.

I argued this in another post, but imo:

Ace's Helm, Justice Torque, Fowling Earring, Brutal Earring.
Askar Korazin, Dusk Gloves, Rajas Ring, Shiper's Ring.
Cerberus Mantle, Swift Belt, Byakko's Haidate, and AF2.(could do Fuma).

Is better than what I see most sams in.

The above settup has:

20 Str.
25 Dex.
+29 Accuracy.
+49 Attack.
+11 Store-TP.
+16% Haste.
+7% Double Attack.

With a 450 delay weapon (11.5% Base), I can get 15.1 TP/swing. (7 hits in 52.5 seconds before haste.) 7 swings in 44 seconds.

or:

Ace's Helm
Chivalrous Chain
Fowling Earring
Brutal Earring
Hachiman Domaru
Hachiman Kote
Rajas Ring
Sniper's Ring +1
Cerberus Mantle
Potent Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Hachiman Sune-ate

30 Str.
20 Dex.
+40 Accuracy.
+15 Attack.
+28 Store-TP.
+4% Haste.
+5% Double Attack.

With a 450 delay weapon (11.5% Base), I can get 16.7 TP/swing. ( 6 hits in 45 seconds before haste.) 6 swings in 43.2 seconds.

Both of those are pre-merit.

Point 1) Imo, I'd rather do more damage with the extra hit, than bank on Store-TP.

Point 2) Either way, meriting Store-TP wont dramatically affect your gains too much. I figured Meriting Zanshin would be better. For me, Zanshin seems to proc about 25% of the misses, meritign prings that up to 30%, so 1 in 3 hits gets another chance to hit. You add Ikishoten capped to that, every zanshit hit that connects gives you an additional 9-TP. So it's almost worth it to miss.
At 80% accuracy, 20% being Zanshined to 6 attempts at 80% accuracy, 4 of those missed hits will connect for +9 TP on base (23.1 & 26.7 respective to the builds.)

so let's say 5 minutes of constant swinging:

Build 1: ~48 swings, @80% accuracy = 38 swings +3 Zanshin'd, = 652.14 TP (6 WS)

Build 2: ~42 Swings, @80% accuracy = 34 swings +2 Zanshin'd, = 619.2 TP (6 WS)

If: Each swing either way does 100 Dmg/Swing, then Build 1 will do aproximately 500 damage more. (4,100 Damage vs. 3,600 Damage.)

That's just somethign to think about. Idk how accurate it is, but it's what I thought about .

To skew things further, add Usukane Sune-Ate to the equation.

 

[Arkangel]

Besides, Tachi: Yukikaze (the first spammable WS?) is level 60, and anyone who wears Store TP+9 over a Hauby does not deserve to be playing Samurai.

I'm sorry but i have been playing sam since zilart began its rise and I prefer the hachiman domaru over a hauby any day
I would even prefer the far eastern lvl 59 body over a hauby

samurai standards are based on what the job was built for eveding immediate danger and WS (Frequency and/or Power)

 

[RaidrX]

I'm sorry but i have been playing sam since zilart began its rise and I prefer the hachiman domaru over a hauby any day
I would even prefer the far eastern lvl 59 body over a hauby

samurai standards are based on what the job was built for eveding immediate danger and WS (Frequency and/or Power)

I could MAYBE see the Hachi if you were really going for a TP build, but imo +10 acc and +10 att > Increased crits. And even if you go with the Hachi thats still 11 levels of hauby before that. Cause shit, even if you get one more crit in a mob with the sipahi, that -10 acc is probably gonna equal missing one more hit a mob, so you could say those even out but then the +10 att from the hauby makes it better. Idk i could be wrong, but i'd still go hauby > sipahi.