Subs for MNK

Sanoske

Sanoske

Half man, half amazing.
Adventurer
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
2,477
Age
39
Location
CT
Main Job
BlackMage-Male
Secondary Job
Monk-Male
Ok. So hear me out. I'm sure these have all be kicked around many times, but Im new to this whole melee thing. I enjoy screwing around, so these are merely suggestion, albeit viable ones. Now, I do not do any endgame outside of Dynamis, which I will probably be going BLM to 90% of the time. These ideas are mainly for experimenting/having fun and events/missions. Be prepared for me to state the obvious!

I'm currently lvling MNK. I enjoy the job so far(lvl 16, so early on) and after many jobs being tossed around, Ive decided to take it to 75. I'm a career BLM though, so it's going to take some getting used to the melee thing.

I understand /WAR is the generally accepted sub in exp, and that /NIN is the way to go for merit parties. However, looking through the options there are some very nice ones that I never see.

/DRG:

I believe this combo would really shine once you hit 40. At lvl 40, with Fuma, Brown Belt, Wyvern Earring, one can have a 16% Haste build. At lvl 40! Without sacrificing any vital gear either. Plus I would imagine Boost + Jump would be a good way to shed hate/deal dmg. And of course High Jump after lvl 70.

Also, you get the Att Bonus(recieved after 20), and the Acc Bonus(recieved after 60).

My idea is that this would be amazing for 40-50(before Warrior sub has DA) and after that would still be a very strong contender.

/SAM:

This idea would be more for simply going nuts. It seems /SAM on WAR is pretty amazing, and a quick way to die. Obviously, it would be about the same deal on MNK. Third Eye(after 30) and Seigan(after 70) would allow a little help, but not enough Id imagine.

/SAM is, obviously, all about pumping out WS, hence why you would be dead asap. Store TP(after lvl 20) and Store TPII(after lvl 60), Zanshin(after 40) and Meditate(after 60) would all lead to some amazing dmg output. Add in Hasso(after 50) and you're rolling. The Haste, Acc and minor STR bonus would push MNK over the edge. With a good build MNK would be hitting 35% Haste before spells.

Like I said though, this is purely for fun. It is not very viable in exp or merit situations, simply because hate would be too hard to manage. The MNK would put a lot out, but would become an MP sponge.

VS

/WAR:

Ok. So this is what everyone uses. Obviously everyone knows the benfits.

Berserk and Warcry(at 30 and 70, respectively), as well as Double Attack(after 50) and Att Bonus I(after 60). I'm going to assume that the DA it what really puts this above the other jobs, as well as the /WAR ability to have a balance of dmg that will not make the MNK into a bullseye.

Also looked at /DRK, but thought it was exteremly inefficient. And /WHM for soloing and Chi Blast(which isn't used anymore? I don't know).



So.... while I've stated the obvious here. I just put this out to show what little research I've done, and I'm curious what the general communities views of these subjob combinations are. I seriously think post 40(with addition of Fuma and BB), that /DRG would be a very viable sub in exp. Are there any major benefits to certain subs that I've missed? Any suggestions to focus on while I lvl MNK?
 
Boost to 999 attack and JUMP!!
 
MNK/DRG can be pretty strong, but berserk would add a lot more damage over time than a single jump would get you. Once you get high jump at level 70, /DRG gains some ground, but /WAR is still better for overall damage. You shouldn't need the accuracy bonus, with focus and the amount of acc gear monk can get; and you get the attack bonus with /WAR as well, so the traits don't offer much.

MNK/SAM is largely pointless, MNK weapon skills suck(asuran is horrible), their main focus is on the damage getting to those weapon skills. Hasso/seigan also does not work with hand to hand weapons(the three classes are 1 handed, 2 handed, and hand to hand). You're basically sacrificing monk's primary source of damage for a small boost to it's distant secondary damage source. You'll gain TP about the same rate with double attack, but you'll be doing a lot more damage.

/WAR is the king of damage; but with Aht Urghan, we have to sub NIN just so that we don't take up all the mp. Basically, you should be /WHM until you start partying, then /WAR(for provoke until 30 since you can tank somewhat) all the way to 74. Once you start cannoning, then /NIN. /DRK is really only for a few fights where you're going to use hundred fists, it's completely useless for exp parties(where you're trying to not use up mp).
 
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/DRG loses to /WAR in the 30-70 stretch. Need both jumps to stand a chance against Berserk for damage, or double attack for TP gain. The 40-50 stretch is a possibility, I never really thought about that. At 75 with a Brutal Earring, it's actually very good, potentially better than /WAR in situations where Attack isn't too much of a concern (Say... red curry and double minuet in a 2x BRD party, or weak areas like Dynamis) Normal jump doesn't shed hate though, and High Jump isn't terribly good at it when you double attack or kick on it...

/SAM, same deal, but without the 75 redemption. You give up everything in exchange for 60 TP every 3 minutes. Not a good deal. Hand to Hand is not a 2-handed weapon, you can't Hasso or Seigan.
 
Bugger. I forgot that Hasso is only effective when using a 2handed weapon.

Was merely an oversight on my part, I realize the difference between weapon classes. -.-

The 40-50 stretch I believe I'm going to try the /DRG Haste build up, since I believe it will be better than /WAR since there's no DA til 50. I'll have to get a parse and record some stuff.

How about /THF? Someone mentioned that while I was talking in LS the other day. Aside from spike damage, it doesn't seem like it would be worth it to sub THF. The benefits from the other viable sub seem to overwhelm the spike dmg potential.
 
Sanoske said:
Bugger. I forgot that Hasso is only effective when using a 2handed weapon.

Was merely an oversight on my part, I realize the difference between weapon classes. -.-

The 40-50 stretch I believe I'm going to try the /DRG Haste build up, since I believe it will be better than /WAR since there's no DA til 50. I'll have to get a parse and record some stuff.

How about /THF? Someone mentioned that while I was talking in LS the other day. Aside from spike damage, it doesn't seem like it would be worth it to sub THF. The benefits from the other viable sub seem to overwhelm the spike dmg potential.
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/THF is largely, quite pointless for MNK. I'd just avoid it.
 
The ONLY reason a monk should ever sub thief is if they are farming. Sneak attack is completely useless for hand to hand weapon skills, since all of them hit at least twice and they're low damage anyways; and without sneak attack, /thf offers absolutely nothing worth subbing.
 
Dear god no /THF. I dont' know how many times it's been covered, but MNK is the most horribly incompatable job with /THF... Our best WS's are multihit. SA does not work well with multihit. Howling Fist and Dragon Kick are the only two remotely worth considering /THF for, and by then, you've got the full Berserk / Double Attack / Kick Attacks thing going on for insane TP and melee damage output. MNK has the lowest spike increase with /THF of any weapon type. Besides maybe Sword, I seem to recall that's got a lack of 1-hit WS's too.
 
I think i read somewheres long ago that a SATA 300% full swing? did booku dmg, but not like that matters in xp. Any monk worth a damn laughs at those /thf in xp.

I subbed drg in my 60's off and on, drg gets an accuracy bonus at 30 i think, so thats spiffy, plus boosting jumps is just plain f'n fun. And like you mentioned...the earring.

War is nice, for the reasons stated above, and did anyone mention 1st voke?

set the curve Sano, /pup

(srsly)
 
Ok. Was trying to figure out and real benefit for subbing THF and couldn't find any. Glad to see it wasn't me completely missing things. Thanks for the opinions guys. Still a lot to learn about the job an melee in general, obviously... but hopefully that will come with time and little more research.

Already got PUP lvld to 38 Iso, so I'm all set to rock out with MNK/PUP. Gogo! O.o

What are good foods for MNK? STR based I'm assuming, since MNK will get a good amount of Acc gear in time. Been using Mithkabobs for Dunes, since it's the classic melee lowbie food. Depends on what you're fighting, I suppose.
 
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One last question if anyone peeks in here.

What about Chi Blast? I remember when I did sky for a short while, MNKs would be firing off some crazy dmg on those. WHM sub, MND food, and MND gear... I remember seeing 1500+ Chi Blasts. Are those pretty much a Kirin only thing? Or are they just not done anymore for efficieny reasons? I always thought I would be able to whip up a mean MND gear set. <.<
 
it takes 3 mins of boosting for numbers like that. Etudes are pretty helpful too.

I recommend macro'n in some mind gear and pissing your tanks off on long pulls for a hoot.
 
Chi blast isn't terribly effective anymore. Yeah, it's somewhat decent damage, but it's a lot more work and other jobs can do more damage with less effort/gear. You pretty much have to be boosting as soon as it's up and the alliance needs to have a free spot so they can invite you right before your last boost or it will wear off and you'll do 30 damage instead of 1200+. I still have all my chi blast gear for my monk, but it's just sitting on a mule since I don't chi blast enough to keep the gear on hand.

Monk's role in endgame is pretty limited due to the nature of the job. You're good in dynamis, salvage(you're the king of salvage) and limbus, but most really big fights mnk isn't that useful unless you're going to burn it.
 
Ok, answers my question.

MNK is going to be my screw around fun job. BLM I can use for all endgame stuff.
 
Sanoske said:
Was merely an oversight on my part, I realize the difference between weapon classes. -.-

The 40-50 stretch I believe I'm going to try the /DRG Haste build up, since I believe it will be better than /WAR since there's no DA til 50. I'll have to get a parse and record some stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd say 30-49 DRG is a better sub then WAR. After you get Double Attack at 50 then definitely it is time to switch. Most people forget that DRG has an Attack Bonus ability trait at lower levels and WAR doesn't. Berserk is only around 20-25 more attack, and more as you level of course, every 3 out of 5 minutes. Whereas you have a constant +10 attack with the DRG trait, 5% haste and Jump.

Also, you can try picking up Wyvern Mantle which is the level 30 back piece that works with DRG sub. It is kind of rare on the AH though. It is another +6 attack, and there is nothing better then that until Amemet Mantle.
 
I'm reading just to poke my head in. But the viability of /drg until level 50 does sound somewhat appealing. The early attk bonus trait, the 5 extra haste, the backpiece for 6 attk to help negate berserk, and jump.

However I think there is no doubt /drg is better than /war offensively for levels 20-29. For the level spread 20-29 with /drg you'll get attack bonus for a constant 10 attk bonus, and you get jump. War simply just gives provoke and maybe one extra str over /drg for those levels.

10-19 I see the usefulness in backup voking since mages have a hard time keeping up with the tank's hp. However things settle out quite a bit once people start to hit qufim from my experience taking other jobs through those levels.

Lots of people use to laugh at /drg, even the noobs. But I think it's interesting that quite a few situational uses warrent it now.
 
For food, I strongly recommend shelling out for Rice Dumplings. They give a comparable attack boost to mithkabobs at low levels but also give accuracy +5.
 
Crosis said:
Yeah I'd say 30-49 DRG is a better sub then WAR. After you get Double Attack at 50 then definitely it is time to switch. Most people forget that DRG has an Attack Bonus ability trait at lower levels and WAR doesn't. Berserk is only around 20-25 more attack, and more as you level of course, every 3 out of 5 minutes. Whereas you have a constant +10 attack with the DRG trait, 5% haste and Jump.

Also, you can try picking up Wyvern Mantle which is the level 30 back piece that works with DRG sub. It is kind of rare on the AH though. It is another +6 attack, and there is nothing better then that until Amemet Mantle.
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You're horribly gimp if you only have 80-100 attack at 30, especially since you should have 100 skill at 32. The 10 attack isn't going to be nearly as helpful as the 25% boost from berserk, even if berserk is only up 60% of the time. Jump is good and you can get those but the attack bonus is negligable compared to berserk.

MNK/DRG is good, but I don't think it'd do that much more damage than MNK/WAR; but it'd be interesting to parse out. You should definitely have WAR leveled as a sub anyways, but you might be asked to bring it for a first provoke or to help the tank out.
 
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