Tank + Refresher Combo

[Isotope]

Trying to see which Tank & Refresher combo most people prefer to exp with. As you can see I've been playing both of the tanking jobs we're familar with.

Sorry just noticed this was in the wrong forum, can't seem to find the delete option. [Edit: Fixed. -Sculli]

 

[Zerayla]

Definitely prefer pld and rdm combo. I haven't been in many party set ups where everyone arranges themselves so that the pld can be close to the mages (usually because of AoE moves etc) and get the Mages Ballad... so in the end i've only gotten this at the end of battles where i'd much prefer having a rdm consistantly refresh me through battle so that mp use isn't an issue, and therefore hate isn't an issue.

I also have partied as other jobs and whenever i've had a nin tank, the nin has never been able to hold their hate very well and the cures would have to be tossed everywhere, and when the nin would take a hit they'd take it bad.

My experiences with nin tanks have led me to dislike the job a lot, i'd rather see ninja's used ranged and become actual DD's.

 

[Isotope]

In my experience the best combo for pt is PLD + RDM, but the RDM needs to keep on top of refreshing & the WHM needs to keep ontop of curing status ailments unless the PLD is rich enough to afford medicines. I understand RDM is a very busy job... I started game as a RDM & quit when I found how they were being used as refresh tools for the pt. I give RDM a lot of credit for what they do & greatly appreciate it, all I'm saying is they w/PLD make best combo imo as long as they are a good RDM that keeps ontop of refreshing the pt.

 

[Passions]

this is a hard choice because you only list 2 jobs lol

on my rdm or whm i prefer a pld
on my nin i prefer a bard/smn combo

the focused spell of refresh is much better for pld along with the needed healing magic of a whm and there regen spells. where as with ninja you can seperate the refresh for the mages and give your melee/tank extra boost in stats and with less healing needed a smn can use bloodpacts to better serve the group. such as stoneskin on a ninja tank helps tremendously escpecially on mobs like gobs or double-attacking mobs that can eat all your shaddows in 1 tp move. gives you a little cussion for casting ichi and not taking a hard blow to the face.

but for this poll and the options given, i'll have to say bard/ninja. my reason is with those 2 combined you've taken a party up another lvl or 2 and are able to get xp at a little faster pace. your melee are doing more damage your tank is taking less damage which can lower down time. acc+att up helps melee hit harder and more often building tp faster and more sc's let along more damage each hit.

where as with a pld/rdm combo you dont gain any stats that improve the party as a whole just a good combo for a meat shield. This means that mobs wont die as fast as a ninja/bard combo where the melee stats are inhanced along with the regular enfebbles on the mob and mages get refresh.

*edit*
let me also add that a pld doesn't nessicarely hold better hate either. there was one ninja when i was lvling blm around 68ish that i tried pulling hate on and it was still tough. maybe i didn't try hard enough but still to hold a few tier 3 nukes and a aga3 mb thats pretty good imo. not all ninja's are like that, pld hate is easier and cheaper to attain well put it that way.

 

[Isotope]

Well one things for certain, people who play a mage job as main will probably prefer rdm & vise-versa.

 

[Passions]

Well one things for certain, people who play a mage job as main will probably prefer rdm & vise-versa.

i'll have to say bard/ninja

Pandorda - 75BLM/66RDM/32WHM
Istar - 75WHM/40SMN/17BLM/6BRD
Passions - 62THF/60NIN/33WAR/11RNG/6MNK

you were saying? i even gave good backing to why i think ninja/bard is better for xp. i didn't say it was the only option i gave good scenerios from both sides.

pld/rdm combo will do just fine in xp/hr but a good ninja/brd combo will do that much better

 

[Isotope]

Just stated that as a general comment, not really as a response to your post.

I also have partied as other jobs and whenever i've had a nin tank, the nin has never been able to hold their hate very well and the cures would have to be tossed everywhere, and when the nin would take a hit they'd take it bad.

But as quoted by another I have also experienced this as nin or with nin tanking for me, I don't like the uncertainty in my mind w/nin tanking or tanking as nin. If the nin lags, forgets to utsusemi, is getting disconnected, or received a status ailement that prevents them from casting utsusemi (assuming no mage gets to remove it in time)....zoop down he goes! Pld can take the hits for a lot longer. Slow & steady wins the race I'd say. Plus people don't realize how much abuse the ninja job entails. Mages get to be lazy, the ninja has to have loads of tools to use all it's ninjitsu to try & keep hate. All those tools cost big bucks & as long as ninja is played by the gamer their wallet will diminish. Nin is a job for the rich.

 

[Passions]

thats why only skilled players should play the job. and if your mages aren't getting those off in the time it takes to lose all shadows and get beat to death then the pld isn't going to last long either. most people bitch about ninja tanks that are forces to tank solo pre 37 or on mobs that the xp caps out at 3-4lvls over them because the party *despretly* needed a tank so they got what was out there.

ninja's are frail yes but you stick a pld in the situations that some ninja's are thrown in they wouldn't stack up well either.

a lot of times after playing other jobs or being in certain parties people are quick to look through the glass and not around it. you prefer a pld over a flimsy ninja because your a pld she's a pld that prefers pld.

mostly its not the mages requesting a rdm its the PLD's requesting rdm. the ones that say no rdm no party im gone.

a mage doesn't care if its a rdm or a bard they just want there refresh and a lot of times that is for the wrong reason. they want it because they spam magic out the ass and forgot how to conserve mp.

There are good ninja's out there that do a suppior job. shadows will go down at somepoint escpically if you been doing the counting for hours your bound to slip up at least once. i think that one slip up for a minimal cure isn't that bad. if the ninja is having so many issues that they basically tanking without blink then either the ninja sucks or the mob is too tough.

the only mob that has ever single shoted my taru ass on ninja though is a spider that double-attacked ate last shaddow then sickle-slashed me for more then hp's i had in the first place. that measns nothing i've watched hume plds fall to the same move and they dont get the option to blink it out they have to eat that move to the face and the whm has to keep them top shape at all times or they WILL go down.

so as i said, its not mages saying RDM ONRY PEEZ because frankly when i play a mage job i dont give a shit where the refresh is from as long as its there and i dont really care as a ninja either long as the mob is getting enfebbled. the ones that DO care are the pld's that say RDM ONRY PEEZ yes you do say that, i've been told by lfp pld's before "party do you need it?" "rdm do you have it?"
"not yet still forming" "let me know when you get a rdm then ill join"
or
"yes we got a brd he's fine with a pld tank" "bard no thanks"

some plds are cool about it but i've gotten respances like that. i know a party with a pld tank and no refresh BLOWS been there tried that but it can work with a bard.

ok i'm totally lost where i was going but its not mages saying RDM ONRY PEEZ that is all

*edit*
also let me add. the only 2 people that have posted is you (pld) and zer also a pld. while i haven't lvld pld yet i do understand it. i'm not looking through the bottle glass and saying you know pld's suck because this one time i was in this party and this pld sucked um...? NO

i have played rdm whm nin thf and blm after i get nin 75 i'll probably lvl pld next because its something i've wanted to do but i need a tank that can dd as well for my 3 person combo.

i guess i shouldn't do that either because i'm taru and couldn't take a beating as well as you elvaan plds

 

[meeze]

With an equal set up, a NIN BRD will always get faster xp than PLD RDM.

BRD makes a PT better than they are, plain and simple.

 

[meeze]

Just stated that as a general comment, not really as a response to your post.



But as quoted by another I have also experienced this as nin or with nin tanking for me, I don't like the uncertainty in my mind w/nin tanking or tanking as nin. If the nin lags, forgets to utsusemi, is getting disconnected, or received a status ailement that prevents them from casting utsusemi (assuming no mage gets to remove it in time)....zoop down he goes! Pld can take the hits for a lot longer. Slow & steady wins the race I'd say. Plus people don't realize how much abuse the ninja job entails. Mages get to be lazy, the ninja has to have loads of tools to use all it's ninjitsu to try & keep hate. All those tools cost big bucks & as long as ninja is played by the gamer their wallet will diminish. Nin is a job for the rich.

Can't stand these cop outs, if you are talking about NINs that can't do their jobs then say so, cause I'll start talking about all the dumbass PLDs who don't know how to control hate, don't use flash and all that and lets the mob run wild.

In your comparison I'm assuming compitent people with compitent components in the party, not a bunch of retards who just got their first advanced job.

 

[Isotope]

Personally I don't mind as a PLD partying with a BRD. I never turn down parties that have a BRD. Only negative from PLD aspect is the BRD having to request pt members position themselves well since they have to run around to get both the melee & mages w/songs. Personally I feel bad for BRD....must be a pain in the @$$.

 

[Isotope]

Can't stand these cop outs, if you are talking about NINs that can't do their jobs then say so, cause I'll start talking about all the dumbass PLDs who don't know how to control hate, don't use flash and all that and lets the mob run wild.

In your comparison I'm assuming compitent people with compitent components in the party, not a bunch of retards who just got their first advanced job.

Woah there fella :shok: lol. I'm not downing NIN, just stating an opinion just like everyone else. Plus I'm not saying NIN can't do their job. Think about this tho....how many compotent people do you find playing their job as best they can?, job is irrelivant. If you put a noob NIN & noob PLD side-by-side just based on what the job comes with, the noob PLD has a higher chance of survival. Don't need a flame started over this, Sculli already moved this post once :biggrin: & actually the poll is all that's important here, our reasons are irrelivant.

 

[Passions]

Nin is a job for the rich.

i didn't notice this before till meeze pointed it out.

Yes it takes money to play ninja. the shitty ninja's you might come across are usually poor and just enjoy the thrill of the job. as you go up in lvls you dont have to spam Ni spells to hold hate as much. Your lucky if they dont get resisted as it is. 65+ you really shine on ninja, your actually doing damage and taking the hits from the mob. so your doing 2 jobs in one while the bard also increases the party as well like meeze said as well as i did making the party better as a whole.

a pld is more less just something for the mob to chuck on. they dont do the damage a nin can do and a rdm doesn't beef up the party like a bard does.

 

[Passions]

Personally I feel bad for BRD....must be a pain in the @$$.

i dont its one of the perks on the fast easy ride to 75 :biggrin:

hmmm thats a tough one a nOOb pld or nOOb nin :/

lol your right pld because he'll get spammed with cure untill the whm has hate and the pld doesn' know how to keep hate so the whm will die then the tank lol.

where as the nin will roll with his Ni's maybe get a ichi off but he's garenteed at least 8 free shots + 3-4 before dieing. how many does a pld get?

 

[meeze]

Woah there fella :shok: lol. I'm not downing NIN, just stating an opinion just like everyone else. Plus I'm not saying NIN can't do their job. Think about this tho....how many compotent people do you find playing their job as best they can?, job is irrelivant. If you put a noob NIN & noob PLD side-by-side just based on what the job comes with, the noob PLD has a higher chance of survival. Don't need a flame started over this, Sculli already moved this post once :biggrin: & actually the poll is all that's important here, our reasons are irrelivant.

Not a flame, I'm trying to find out what you are comparing. It seems you are talking about a spectacular PLD and all the shitty NINs you've xp'd with...of course I would go with the PLD.

A party full of compitent players I'll take the NIN BRD combo any day.

As far as noob PLD or noob NIN, definitely the PLD.

 

[Lanien]

Nin + Brd + Rdm

 

[Answa~]

I had a BRD, RDM, PLD, BLM, SMN, and something else party once. We owned. The PLD cured himself, I used my lvl 70 BPs. Goddamn, I missed that party...

 

[Isotope]

I once had a cannon pt of 5 blm & pld (me) gawd that rocked! Killing crabs in the tree for hours, sky rocketting.

Ok look out for next poll.... Fav job played. :biggrin:

 

[Xean]

a pld is more less just something for the mob to chuck on. they dont do the damage a nin can do and a rdm doesn't beef up the party like a bard does.

I guess 550+ damage Paladin Spirits Within doesn't count as a lot of damage. When I Haste Paladin, 300% is usually accumulated in two battles.

I prefer PLD + BRD when the party can communicate how to position members so the BRD can land Ballads on the PLD and mages but not the DDs.

Edit: This is talking strictly Tank + Refresh as the topic stated.

 

[Passions]

I guess 550+ damage Paladin Spirits Within doesn't count as a lot of damage. When I Haste Paladin, 300% is usually accumulated in two battles.

so you get one 550+ every other fight while a nin can pop 400+ blade jins along with there regular hits that do more damage then a sword in general and also swing faster

i did a ~650 jin on a toragen (bird) in bibki bay as a 60 ninja just the other day and averaged 300-450 on my jins

so a pld is not more of a damage dealer then a ninja i'm sorry you fail on that one