Teaching my daughter about death tonight

[Chasym]

This has been an odd night and i dont know why or how this is happening, but its hit us all hard.
We got twin kittens from my grandfather about two weeks ago, named them Rocky and Apollo.
My daughter loved them, i loved them...called em my boys.

I came home from work tonight at around 11pm, they stay in my gameroom together so my daughter doesnt get rough with them when no one is around to keep an eye on her.

I came upstairs, it seemed odd that they were not both on the bottom step waiting for me, my wife said its probly because she fed them already.

i came upstairs and they were both waiting around the corner from me just sitting there as usual.
Rocky followed me as i got changed, and then he went and sat under my futon.
Apollo disappeared, i think he was sleeping behind my ex room mates matresses.

Rocky SAT under the futon, he didnt lay down, he just sat there. nothing was odd about anything yet at all, they were both acting fine.

When about 45 minutes to an hour go by and im looking up stuff online and about to eat.
when i hear rocky let out a weird meow, and i turn around to see him stumble and fall over...then stand up and fall over...he did this until he reached my work pants and tried to hide in them, i picked him up and layed him down on his side.
His mouth was wide open and panting heavily, his eyes were pretty much like looking into emptiness.
he was struggling to breathe and would stop, i had to press on his chest to get him to breathe again, his heart rate was rapid and all he could do was pant.
my wife came running...but what i didnt expect was my daughter.
She saw him , shes 3, and immediatley asked "is rocky dying"
i told her yes and she began bawling her little eyes out saying she didnt want rocky to die, rocky then began taking his back paws to the back of his ears as if he was normally itching...which was following by what seemed like a mild seizure, i had my wife take my daughter downstairs.

I kept rocky breathing while i called my mom for help, or to come help comfort my daughter.
rocky then stretched out and began gagging...i thought he was trying to throw up...and couldnt.
so i gave a soft push on his stomach to help him out...but all that came out was blood...then he died.

There isnt ANYTHING in my game room that could have made him sick, they were downstairs for a short time lastnight, maybe 20 minutes tops, and like i said...seemed fine when i got home.

Then i went to find apollo, who was hiding behind the litter box...he looked sick too, was walking very slow and his eyes were spaced out too...everytime he lifted a paw to walk it was shaking.
besides that he was responding to us, rocky didnt respond to us.
he layed down and went to sleep, i took care of rocky.
My daughter asked if i had medicine for rocky...and if putting him in the box would make him feel better, i swear...i couldnt find the words, i couldnt only say "no...it wont make it feel better, because he cant...he cant come back"
she replied....tomorrow?
my wife tried to tell her he was with god, but she didnt understand.
but she...creeped me out.
when we said, Tell your nana (my mom) who rocky is with now.
She replied..."My Dzia Dzia"
which is polish for grandfather...and my dzia dzia died in 95, my daughter does not know that, or would have any reason to say that.
My dad is her dzia dzia but she calls him Gaga.

i wasnt sure apollo was going to be ok or not, so i didnt bury rocky right away, we just figured apollo was heartbroken and sad, and in shock about rocky.

so i decided to bury rocky.
I came upstairs and laid down next to the sleeping apollo and petted him and whispered "i laid him to rest pal"
when as soon as i said that, apollo jumped up and sneezed in my face and kept sneezing non stop.
i yelled for my wife and he began drooling badly, i knew from what ive learned he was having a seizure and i couldnt comfort him because he went insane, meowing loudly, pooping and flipping around the room.
Then he would rest...and minutes later have another seizure.
he has had 5 now so far...is still alive and resting right behind me, if i talk to him his breathing slows...so i decided not to mess with him or make him have to think or focus on me just incase it triggers another seizure.

I called the emergency vet, they are charging 75 dollars, i just started my new job...and my first check was sucked up in gas to get to work.
they told me to apply online for care credit and if approved i can come right in...but i was not approved, and my friend in iowa who was helping me over over chat on xbox live was not approved either.
Ive read if he had one seizure, make an appointment, if he had mroe than 1 in 24 hours to seek a vet IMMEDIATLEY, i just dont know what has happened to cause both kittens to take a sudden turn for the worse IN THE SAME NIGHT hours apart, While rockys seemed more digestive, as he didnt have much of any seizure, Apollos seems completley different.

Ive had people tell me heart worms, lung and heart failure, feline leukemia...and yeah animals around other animals can pass it, but both cats taken by it at the same time?

Im sorry im baffled, and my favorite little guy died staring me in the face, and i wont come home to them waiting for me...or wake up with them sleeping on me.
and i dont want to have to tell my daughter tomorrow that apollo died too.
i dont know how to make her understand.

and please, no reference to my previous post about the kitten/wall scenario, this is completley different and im very serious.
i asked god if he is going to take him to not make him suffer and just take him...but he is still suffering. this is going to keep me up all night.

 

[Trenma]

... That is so harsh man, I really feel for you.

Honestly can't think of anything else to say other then i really "really" hope apollo pulls through.

 

[Chasym]

thanks man, im prayin for him, hes still resting, hes breathing pretty heavy for just laying there though, and his tail looks like electricity hit it, its all puffed out and spiky, i cant sleep on the floor up here like i usually do incase he has another seizure and lands on me, his first one was very violent.
i just...feel so bad for him, just lost his brother and now going through his own struggle.
Im just racking my brains though, ive searched this room up and down and havent found anything they BOTH could have gotten, The only thing i can think of is their cat food was possibly contaminated, but i bought it at work and they have been eating it for...well since we got them, so it cant be that...

 

[hellstorm]

Wow, that would have be the most descriptive and saddish story I have ever read. There really not much you can do , but to tell her the truth, that they have gone to a better place and that Dzia Dzia will take care of them. Assuring her that she will she them some day again may comfort her some too. She will cry and grieve just like I'm sure you doing. A pet like yours is almost worse then a relative dying , just take it slow and comfort her, try answer any question she has about god and keep telling her that heaven is a good place.

Next thing you should do is figure out cause of the problem so you won't have same issue with next pet. It little coincidence that both your cats died only hours apart, they had to have digested something that caused a violent reaction. You said they was in you game room was there any meds or drinks down there that they could have gotten in to? Here a list of toxicities that your cat could have come in contact; follow symptoms of your cats to narrow down your search.

Also, and this is important it was not your fault, many cases people seem blame themselves for a death, but that not the case. You can not control the behavior of a cat.

I'm sorry to hear for your loss and wish you best of luck breaking the news to your daughter and in finding a new friend to greet you at the door.

 

[Trenma]

I'm guessing it's probably quite late for you atm, But i would suggest calling your Grandfather first chance you get and asking if their mother had any similar symptons or abnormalities.

Just sounds really bazaar as far i as i can tell, Considering you've checked out the room.

 

[Gerry]

Damn, thats harsh =(

I'm sorry for your loss man.

I really don't know what to say because Hellstorm pretty much said it all.

 

[Skaw]

It's okay. Rocky'll beat Apollo in the next one.

 

[Anttaru]

I wish someone had a solution for you. I think it's EXTREMELY important for you to find out what exactly happened to Rocky and Apollo. From food or water, they may have been poisoned by accident, or it can be something worse than that.

Things like this will make your Daughter stronger when her current emotional state passes.

 

[Chasym]

Wow, that would have be the most descriptive and saddish story I have ever read. There really not much you can do , but to tell her the truth, that they have gone to a better place and that Dzia Dzia will take care of them. Assuring her that she will she them some day again may comfort her some too. She will cry and grieve just like I'm sure you doing. A pet like yours is almost worse then a relative dying , just take it slow and comfort her, try answer any question she has about god and keep telling her that heaven is a good place.

Next thing you should do is figure out cause of the problem so you won't have same issue with next pet. It little coincidence that both your cats died only hours apart, they had to have digested something that caused a violent reaction. You said they was in you game room was there any meds or drinks down there that they could have gotten in to? Here a list of toxicities that your cat could have come in contact; follow symptoms of your cats to narrow down your search.

Also, and this is important it was not your fault, many cases people seem blame themselves for a death, but that not the case. You can not control the behavior of a cat.

I'm sorry to hear for your loss and wish you best of luck breaking the news to your daughter and in finding a new friend to greet you at the door.

i checked that list, nothing like that laying around, i dont keep stuff like that around here because my daughter is up here alot with me, the only meds i keep around are my prilosec/antacids.
and those are in a box, out of their reach.
the ONLY thing i can think of is i spackled this crack in my bannister over a month ago, and some of the pieces of it came off and are on the floor, small little crumb size pieces, i dont think something that small would have such a big outcome though.
ive rummaged through the garbage can, checkd everything...cant figure it out, unless within that 20 minutes they were running around downstairs lastnight they both got into something...but why would they wait until i got home from work to take the turn for the worse?
and its even scarier when apollo flipped out after i told him i buried his brother, i felt horrible for waking him up because his seizure happend the moment i woke him up.
then his head stayed staring at the ceiling and he was swatting the air like something was there, back and forth with both paws like he was playing, he looked happy but his body didnt look like he was in control, he could see me and see my hand waving, but was swatting at invisible objects.

Hes still resting, hes not responding to me at all, ive called him, clapped, tapped on the floor and touched his head, but he wont budge or open his eyes, just breathing heavy and laying there, at least no seizures in awhile.

The mother of the cat is actually...one of my cats.
The family cat i had when living at my moms as a kid, had kittens, my dad wouldnt let me keep them and i wanted the calico one badly, so my grandpa said he would take her till i could move out...but when i moved he had become too attached to her and i let him keep her, a stray cat mated with her, a stray cat that is at my grandpas all the time and he takes care of as well. the first kitten of the litter died because the mother never removed the sac, the only one left is the calico cat, i dont know its current state or if it has had troubles either.
the mother, has had no issues i know of.

as for finding a new friend, i think it will be a long time. I actually waited a long time before i decided it would be okay to get another kitten, and instead i couldnt bring myself to break two twins up...and brought home 2. i grew attached to them quickly and they were always around me.

Worst thing is my daughter...blames herself.
She kept saying "I Killed Rocky, I scared him" while she was crying.
because i would always say "Leave them alone, your scaring them"
i explained that he got sick and everything, but she still doesnt understand much.
but i hope this makes her understand down the road why we get upset when she gets into things she shouldnt or tries climbing on things she could fall and get hurt on, we would tell her before she could get hurt and die...but she never understood.
this is my longest week ever...

 

[Chasym]

It's okay. Rocky'll beat Apollo in the next one.

lol yeah, they used to box all the time together too. and they even looked like a rocky and apollo.
Round 2 in the sky.

 

[Chasym]

I wish someone had a solution for you. I think it's EXTREMELY important for you to find out what exactly happened to Rocky and Apollo. From food or water, they may have been poisoned by accident, or it can be something worse than that.

Things like this will make your Daughter stronger when her current emotional state passes.

i think i have no use for that cat food right now and wouldnt feed him it after this, how could i go about getting this food checked?
my wife did give them food and water before i came home, and they were fine for a short time.

There was some spray up here for removing pet stains and odors, BUT the label says is it non toxic to pets and if it was in their fur, would not even effect them if they groomed themselves.
So i x'd out that possibility, and if its the water, i dont know...its tap water.
what ways can i get this stuff tested?
(ive already wondered about the water too)

 

[Legomyeggo]

It's okay. Rocky'll beat Apollo in the next one.

The only logical outcome is that an Ivan Drago kitten came and rolled them over night.

 

[Anttaru]

Well, you might want to contact the humane society, and tell then what happened to your cats and see what they'll say or do. I'd imagine they would conduct some type of investigation granted they get to test out the food and drink for your cats. Mind you the Humane Society is known to charge for services. ( This one time i was sprayed by a skunk caught in a trap. long story short, I had to free it cause my friends Father wanted to leave it there till it died cause the Humane Society would have charged $60 to handle it.)

Taking the pet food and the water from the bowl to a lab for analysis isn't cheap for you or the Humane society i reckon.

But something like this should/might be handled through taxes for the sake of the economy I think. I don't see a reason for you having to pay for the possible realization of contaminated water or pet food to hit the 6 o'clock news.

If all else fails, gather together some family and friends and plan out a cheap looking glass party, you'll be amazed how much information a squad of everyday people can retrieve. Contact the store (in person) and inquire if there were any other inquiries about the brand of pet food your cats ate. Talk to one or 2 workers shortly before talking to management about it, these days people try to sue others all the time, so be slick, and try not to let off the impression your about to slap a lawsuit on them.

Ask around and try to make contacts with other consumers. However you find out is on you, your cats fatal illness indicates you either have an unwanted set up without knowing, or you have a temporary unwanted guest lurking around somewhere that needs to be terminated. It's important to know.

When talking to the Humane society, be sure to let off the impression your ready to go public with this illness with mysterious symptoms. You'd be amazed how fast the media news will jump at you if you have a story for them, the Humane society shouldn't ignore what might turn out to be a public hazard.

 

[Chasym]

Well, you might want to contact the humane society, and tell then what happened to your cats and see what they'll say or do. I'd imagine they would conduct some type of investigation granted they get to test out the food and drink for your cats. Mind you the Humane Society is known to charge for services. ( This one time i was sprayed by a skunk caught in a trap. long story short, I had to free it cause my friends Father wanted to leave it there till it died cause the Humane Society would have charged $60 to handle it.)

Taking the pet food and the water from the bowl to a lab for analysis isn't cheap for you or the Humane society i reckon.

But something like this should/might be handled through taxes for the sake of the economy I think. I don't see a reason for you having to pay for the possible realization of contaminated water or pet food to hit the 6 o'clock news.

If all else fails, gather together some family and friends and plan out a cheap looking glass party, you'll be amazed how much information a squad of everyday people can retrieve. Contact the store (in person) and inquire if there were any other inquiries about the brand of pet food your cats ate. Talk to one or 2 workers shortly before talking to management about it, these days people try to sue others all the time, so be slick, and try not to let off the impression your about to slap a lawsuit on them.

Ask around and try to make contacts with other consumers. However you find out is on you, your cats fatal illness indicates you either have an unwanted set up without knowing, or you have a temporary unwanted guest lurking around somewhere that needs to be terminated. It's important to know.

When talking to the Humane society, be sure to let off the impression your ready to go public with this illness with mysterious symptoms. You'd be amazed how fast the media news will jump at you if you have a story for them, the Humane society shouldn't ignore what might turn out to be a public hazard.

i actually work at the place i bought the food from, the dish from, and the three little stuffed toys i got for them, ive examined the toys and it seems that nothing was ripped or punctured so none of the insides came out. i will ask around at work today, i cant afford to pay for any services, i couldnt even afford to take him to the emergency vet tonight, we wont have money and be OFFICIALLY back on our feet till next week...this is just a bad time for this.

 

[Anttaru]

In a way that is a good thing. The company you work for can have the analysis done on the brand of cat food to say the least, and write it off as a business expense.

Be sure, NOT to insist it actually is the food or any product from your work. Depending on how your boss is, I'd hate to hear they treated you as an employee as a burden. Just if they do investigate, please ask them to keep you informed, and you have no intention of suing them or their partners that distribute the product. This is your job, you want them to stay nice and comfy with you.

 

[Stine]

I'm sorry to hear about what is happening. I hope that you figure out what did it to them.

 

[Chasym]

when i woke up he had moved some, so he may of had another seizure, but i didnt hear anything while i was asleep.

Now this is whats strange, he didnt move, he didnt respond all night, didnt open his eyes unless he was having a seizure, it was almost as if he was in a coma in between.

But two of my friends stopped by to say goodbye as they take their trip back to texas, when all of the sudden i heard meowing.

Somehow, Someway apollo built up the strength to follow me down the stairs, i opened the door...and he stumbled out, barley able to stand into the downstairs hallway, i picked him up to take him back upstairs and he went into another seizure.

i went to get him back up here using a dustpan so he would be laying flat and my hand wouldnt push on his chest or anything when i pick him up, and he suddenly stiffened up and tried to get off of it, and two stairs before getting upstairs i thought he was gonna have one on the stairs so i ran to grab the blanket hes been using and picked him up and swaddled him in it, hes very stiff and still but breathing and swaddled in that blanket.

I called my parents, asked my dad if he could just put the cat out of its misery.
I know i cant do it, i just cant kill something, my dad has...my dad has killed my sick pets before, but i dont know yet...hes just fine when not seizuring...

 

[Novolo]

damn man i would hate to have to tell my 3 year old niece about death, id probly start crying

 

[Zephayra]

About teaching kids death -

First, it's always a natural for people to feel guilty or blame themselves when a death occurs, whether its human or animal. She might feel guilty, but it'll be up to you to comfort her and tell her that sometimes animals get sick and there isn't anything people can do to save them, as hard as they may try.

Second, she may react later by feeling sick and not wanting to do anything. This again is also normal, but if it starts to get serious or prolonged, she might need to go to the doctor. There are countless grief books that say feeling sick to the stomach, tightness of the chest, dizziness, fatigue and other digestive problems can all come from the stress of grief, but if they last for awhile, you shouldn't ignore it.

Teaching children about death is important, and everyone has their own way of doing. However, there are a few things key things"
- Never teach anything that may have to later be retaught ex: the kitten is just sleeping (Obviously this doesn't really apply to you, since you didn't tell her that)
- Only teach religious examples if this is your belief
- Let them know that getting sick doesn't mean they'll die too. This is one of the hardest aspects due to a child's thought pattern, depending on their age. Sometimes if you tell them that someone/something has died because it was sick, they will think they will die whenever they are sick.
- Be honest and answer any questions they have. Remember "I don't know" is an acceptable answer if you really don't know.


Its really hard in your case because of her age. At her age, there isn't really a concept of the finality of death just based on how children think at that age.

I'm gonna see if I can find a pamphlet on how to talk to children about the death of pets that one of my classmates made, to see if it has any additional advice. Good luck and I hope things turn out better for you.

 

[Chasym]

thanks zeph, i had been telling her he was sick, ill stop that.
ill clear it up more for her, she seems fine now and keeps telling me that "Rocky died daddy and my dzia dzia is gonna take care of him" which when she said that when i got home from work tonight, i started to tear up a little myself.

i expected to come home to bad news that apollo either passed away or was still in bad shape, i came home to the complete opposite.
apollo is up and running around like normal, he was running around to keep up with me, he was trying to play with my daughter (which i wont allow yet just incase, i want to make sure hes recovered, i mean...he did just have 7 seizures) he walks a little funny but hes acting fine, hes eating like hes never eaten before (tuna, not that cat food i had), but as soon as i get my money i will still be taking him to the vet, i hope he does well until then.
Sad thing is ... hes been walking around sniffing and looking for rocky, its obvious that hes looking for him because he will run a few steps, stop, look around, run a few more, stop, sniff look around, back track...its sad.