Teh 1337 Rdm debate.......

[Bigboy]

I'm suprised everyone who talkedd about nuking used such small #s. If I nuke, its almost always over 600 raw. But I suppose taru INT and HQ staves make that difference. I'll admit I don't burst on every SC though. But I also PT with people who are pretty elite so bursting on every one of them would eat through my MP in a snap. I can usually run out of my MP if I nuke outside of MBs (and I am only working with 2 other people).

No matter how good of a RDM you are, you're still a support job and you can easily run out of MP, so nukes are the more obvious thing to cut from my "to do" list. While I disagree with the #s I am seeing, I believe Kire is right in that it is often too wastefull to waste MP on free-nuking. Resting is often an impossibility for me as well, when I do the things I do, so yeah.... that ain't happenin' but I wont hesitate to pop a squat if there is nothing to do. I usually am not waiting on my convert timer though, so I'm prolly just a bad RDM and not utilizing my full potential. I'd rather not have to rely too heavily on convert if I don't have to. I know my limitations, but rarely do I get a PT that comes close to making me break a sweat.

RDM is an easy job. Any loaf can do it right. If you can set priorities quickly and react with a cool head, you're fine. I always get a chuckle when people make it out to be this super hectic job where you're doing all sorts of crazy shit at any given moment. If you ask me, NIN, while more strait-forward, is far more difficult than people make RDM out to be. I suck at NIN -.-;

 

[dedalius]

So in your own little world... since a DRK has Black Magic... they should Magic Burst everytime too? RDM nuking is worthless in a party. It's mainly there for soloing purposes.

There's one minor difference. Dark Knight meleeing would give greater return than Dark Knight MBing. At that point in time, the RDM MBing would be the best use of his time.

 

[Uzor]

If your RDMes can't break 200 damage on a Thunder III MB, please strangle them slowly to death. My Thunder III's do around 700 damage to IT mobs non-MB'ed unless they have magic defense bonus.

Although I have to admit, I prefer not MB'ing in merit parties. The mobs dies very fast anyway, and after the SC's, the mob should be close to dead anyway, meaning MB'ing anything (that is, if they are even SC'ing... most aren't) when the mob is at 5% HP is just a waste of MP.

If I wanted to MB in merit parties I would have gone BLM instead of RDM.

 

[Prothall]

edit: my rdm is only 60 mind you..

From experience, when my Convert is up, and I have extra MP- I have nuked away my MP. I was doing I think Blizzard II(76 MP)- and was doing 250 on Hits (75%ish accuracy) and around 100ish on misses. This is sooo much better than meleeing/doing nothing/waiting around to run out of MP.

 

[Kire]

From experience, when my Convert is up, and I have extra MP- I have nuked away my MP. I was doing I think Blizzard II(76 MP)- and was doing 250 on Hits (75%ish accuracy) and around 100ish on misses. This is sooo much better than meleeing/doing nothing/waiting around to run out of MP.

you get to convert 6 times a hour, i think most where talking about useing magic with or with out convert rdy

 

[Bigboy]

If your RDMes can't break 200 damage on a Thunder III MB, please strangle them slowly to death. My Thunder III's do around 700 damage to IT mobs non-MB'ed unless they have magic defense bonus.

Although I have to admit, I prefer not MB'ing in merit parties. The mobs dies very fast anyway, and after the SC's, the mob should be close to dead anyway, meaning MB'ing anything (that is, if they are even SC'ing... most aren't) when the mob is at 5% HP is just a waste of MP.

If I wanted to MB in merit parties I would have gone BLM instead of RDM.

Seriously, thats how it works. I dunno what these other people are talking about. 200MB wtf ever! My resists do more than that. -.-

If you're nuking in a Merit PT, you should be replaced by a BRD, cuz you're not finding enough usefull things to do with your time. You could be out pulling something.

 

[Uzor]

in a non-merit party though, the RDM should be MB'ing to speed the battles up.
Most people believe a RDM's job is to enfeeble and be a MP battery. That is wrong. a RDM's job is to speed the battles up, and make chaining mobs easier, thus increasing the exp/hr. We can do this through all of our tools

First being enfeebles. By enfeebling the mob, we can both decrease the damage taken by party members, thus saving the healer some MP. we can also increase the damage the mob take (Dia II).

Secondly, we can refresh those who need to effectively boost their MP, thus decreasing downtime.

Thirdly, we can heal in order to help the WHM out, thus decreasing downtime. We can also haste the melees to increase killing speed, increasing the exp/hour

And last, but not least, we can MB to speed the battle up, thus increasing the exp/hr.

 

[Remus]

magic bursting sure but normal magic? no

Once again Kire you show your total lack of understanding the discussion.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT A RDM SHOULD BE CHAIN CASTING ELEMENTAL MAGIC. THIS IS ABOUT MAGIC BURSTING.

As stated above by many of experienced RDMs, a RDM can MB for good damage, most choose not to because the kills are dying fast. Not that they don't have the MP to not be able to.

Yes it is a BLM's job to cast Elemental Magic, but a RDM can and should be more than capable of throwing out a GOOD MB here and there.

 

[Bigboy]

edit: my rdm is only 60 mind you..

From experience, when my Convert is up, and I have extra MP- I have nuked away my MP. I was doing I think Blizzard II(76 MP)- and was doing 250 on Hits (75%ish accuracy) and around 100ish on misses. This is sooo much better than meleeing/doing nothing/waiting around to run out of MP.

I dont see whats wrong with just waiting it out. ; ;

Nothing says you HAVE to convert just cuz its ready. I like to stretch my MP as far as it'll go.

 

[Uzor]

I dont see whats wrong with just waiting it out. ; ;

Nothing says you HAVE to convert just cuz its ready. I like to stretch my MP as far as it'll go.

but you SHOULD convert as soon as its ready. If you're sitting at 50% MP when convert is ready, there's a lot of things you could be doing to speed the battles up.

You could throw in some more MB's, you could take over some of the WHM's hastes, you could heal some more. You should ALWAYS try to time your MP so that it runs out as Convert is ready.

 

[Bigboy]

You don't know fun and excitement till you've been forced to use convert backwards to survive while running your tail off. Most people will tell you to just sleep whatever's chasing you, but we all know things sometimes dont work out as planned and you can suddenly find your face at risk of getting stomped before you're gonna be able to get a cure out.

Ask your RDM friends if any of them have had to do it. I never realized it was so rare till a friend commented on it after seeing my do it once. It's the worst cure ratio in the game, but it's instant, and thats what counts.

(Just felt like telling a story)

 

[Uzor]

You don't know fun and excitement till you've been forced to use convert backwards to survive while running your tail off. Most people will tell you to just sleep whatever's chasing you, but we all know things sometimes dont work out as planned and you can suddenly find your face at risk of getting stomped before you're gonna be able to get a cure out.

Ask your RDM friends if any of them have had to do it. I never realized it was so rare till a friend commented on it after seeing my do it once. It's the worst cure ratio in the game, but it's instant, and thats what counts.

(Just felt like telling a story)

I have done it once while running through a zone and getting aggro. But that's besides the point.

If you do it in a exp party, you'll just be selfish for trying to save yourself instead of covnerting to get full MP, chainspell and sleep/bind/gravity stuff and heal your own party members.

Chainspell really IS a life saver, for more then just yourself.

 

[Bigboy]

but you SHOULD convert as soon as its ready. If you're sitting at 50% MP when convert is ready, there's a lot of things you could be doing to speed the battles up.

You could throw in some more MB's, you could take over some of the WHM's hastes, you could heal some more. You should ALWAYS try to time your MP so that it runs out as Convert is ready.

But if everyone is hasted, and fights only survive one SC, what are you gonna use that MP on? Nuking just cuts down the time melee's need to get TP for the next fight. Sometimes its good to remember other jobs need to do things to be effective, and we can't interfere too much. Biggest mistakes I see RDMs make is burning their MP before convert and leaving the melee without enough TP to start the next fight. Another big one is spamming buffs and confusing WHMs. It all sounds like a good idea at the time, but I try to play on a different level. My convert is used so I can always do the same things at an even pace and never ever run out of MP. I don't need to squeeze the last last drops out of my MP pool and convert timer, because I have already done everything.

Maybe I just play on a different level than most, but it seems like being fluid and efficient is more effective to me, at least thats what my XP per hour shows me.

 

[Bigboy]

I have done it once while running through a zone and getting aggro. But that's besides the point.

If you do it in a exp party, you'll just be selfish for trying to save yourself instead of covnerting to get full MP, chainspell and sleep/bind/gravity stuff and heal your own party members.

Chainspell really IS a life saver, for more then just yourself.

I dont see how the situation would even occure in an XP party.

Chainspell wouldnt save you if you really neded to do this though, because that half a second you use to convert usually gets you hit, so swapping it with chainspell gets you dead.

 

[Uzor]

I dont see how the situation would even occure in an XP party.

Chainspell wouldnt save you if you really neded to do this though, because that half a second you use to convert usually gets you hit, so swapping it with chainspell gets you dead.

No, it won't get you killed. That's what stoneskin is for.

A mob will NOT kill you if you convert with stoneskin up, especially not with chainspell as Cure IV will go off instantly. It is just not possible. And your whole party would die anyway if you just used Convert to get your HP back to full. It is a selfish act, and I can assure you that no one likes selfish people.

And if the melees kill the mob within 30 sec, you're most likely in a lvl 75 merit party. And as I said earlier, you should not try to MB in a merit party. But as I also said, you could do better things with your MP, like healing for an example. And take over the WHM's hastes.

 

[Kire]

lol Uzor is a very good RDM and a better WHM can go with out refresh and only ballad 2 hitting high chains i got to say he be #1 person to know when to convert

 

[Bigboy]

No, it won't get you killed. That's what stoneskin is for.

A mob will NOT kill you if you convert with stoneskin up, especially not with chainspell as Cure IV will go off instantly. It is just not possible. And your whole party would die anyway if you just used Convert to get your HP back to full. It is a selfish act, and I can assure you that no one likes selfish people.

And if the melees kill the mob within 30 sec, you're most likely in a lvl 75 merit party. And as I said earlier, you should not try to MB in a merit party.

Once again, I don't see how this would happen in a PT.... and you're right, it would be retarded to convert backwards in a PT. I didn't think that was up to debate, I dont know why you keep bringing that up. And chances are, the kind of emergency that warrents it meant stoneskin did jack. Ive had to do it a couple times in dynamis after no one voked mobs I had slept (most likely they had, but were killed before they woke).

And I just recently hit 75 so have only spend the last 3 levels of it in Merit PTs. But even before that, the same rules hold true. You're usually doing yourself a disservice to not let the melee handle things. I dont just toss spells out because my convert timer is up, I use them because they need to be cast. And a Blizzard 2, at level 55 with my convert timer up, and half my MP, doesn't need to be cast. The same examples carry over to other levels. I keep my MP at a reasonable level so I can always cure when needed, or we can pull when people go afk, or whatever. Walking the line with you're MP leaves you with less options, should anything unfavorable happen. And the time and XP saved from that is always better in the long run. I could bust nukes out my ass till I run out of MP when convert is up, or I can just sit on it. One is disruptive to everyone's groove, while the other maintains chains and keeps everything smooth.

The issue of tossing out spare buffs is moot, since there should be no such thing. If you think they should get it when you convert, they should be getting it all the time instead. There should never be extra stuff to do, since you're already doing everything a RDM does.

 

[Bigboy]

lol Uzor is a very good RDM and a better WHM can go with out refresh and only ballad 2 hitting high chains i got to say he be #1 person to know when to convert

I've played RDM, and pretty much ONLY RDM for 2.5+ years and have taken the time to play the job without snagging every PT I could get so I know its full effectiveness at all levels of play on RDM.

I like to think I know what I am talking about too Kire...

 

[Uzor]

Its not a moot point. Most of the time the WHM and RDM share hastes. And you could take over the rest of the WHM's haste cycle instead.

And spending 20 min before you convert is useless, as when you drop to 100 MP after 19 min, it still puts you in the same situation as it did when you had 100 MP and 1 min left on convert timer.

You should always try to time it right, as taking over more of the WHM's jobs means he'll have more MP over, meaning he'll have to rest more, meaning less downtime.

And as for the chainspell -> convert thing. It do happen. An example is the puller pulling a link, and a mob popping in camp at the same time. It often does not lead to a bad situation, as Sleep II and Sleep should keep them busy, but with some bad luck, it can turn in to a bad situation. Chainspell have saved my own and my party's life more times then I can count from 1 to 75 on my RDM.

As for convert, you should always have stoneskin up when you convert anyway, so I don't see why that's an argument? A bad timed AoE attack can kill you during convert. Stoneskin will pretty much never cause you to die during a convert.

 

[Kire]

I've played RDM, and pretty much ONLY RDM for 2.5+ years and have taken the time to play the job without snagging every PT I could get so I know its full effectiveness at all levels of play on RDM.

I like to think I know what I am talking about too Kire...

never exped with u and never said u did not but i seen uzor exp so i know whats hes talking about (we should merit some time ^.^)