Teh 1337 Rdm debate.......

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Prothall said:
no.. rdm cannot take the place of a blm. Idc what gear you have, you will never outnuke a good blm as a rdm. Even if they are naked. RDM is not a tank, and RDM is also not a DD.

Same goes for whm.. You will never outcure a whm as a rdm. Though you can main heal, you can't do it as good as whm. The thing with whm is that there is a cap of how good a whm can be. That "how good" is just keeping everyone alive and hasted and not hold back chains, which a rdm can do in some setups.

*raise hand* Rdm 20-30 can out perform BlM's strictly due to Blm's inability to use -ga spells. I know, I out DD'd every BLM I played against in that area... I also tanked Garlaige Citadel as Rdm/Blm :D In fact I took less dmg than a Pld and did more dmg to the mob (nuking, no melee) I guess it's all situational but Uzor said it best with the swiss army knife analogy
 
Windy said:
*raise hand* Rdm 20-30 can out perform BlM's strictly due to Blm's inability to use -ga spells. I know, I out DD'd every BLM I played against in that area... I also tanked Garlaige Citadel as Rdm/Blm :D In fact I took less dmg than a Pld and did more dmg to the mob (nuking, no melee) I guess it's all situational but Uzor said it best with the swiss army knife analogy

In my honest opinion, this is BS. Iv taken RDM to 75, and while it can tank SITUATIONALLY, Garlaige Citadel is not one of those places.

Paladins can get chewed up in Garlaige, and you say your TANKING as a RDM/BLM, no voke, just nuking, no melee, and your out performing a PLD?

B U L L S H I T
 
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Windy said:
*raise hand* Rdm 20-30 can out perform BlM's strictly due to Blm's inability to use -ga spells. I know, I out DD'd every BLM I played against in that area... I also tanked Garlaige Citadel as Rdm/Blm :D In fact I took less dmg than a Pld and did more dmg to the mob (nuking, no melee) I guess it's all situational but Uzor said it best with the swiss army knife analogy

The swiss army knife wasn't my analogy <.<; As I said, someone else mentioned it in the thread, and I think it was a good one.
 
Rufus_Shinra said:
In my honest opinion, this is BS. Iv taken RDM to 75, and while it can tank SITUATIONALLY, Garlaige Citadel is not one of those places.

Paladins can get chewed up in Garlaige, and you say your TANKING as a RDM/BLM, no voke, no nuking, no melee, and your out performing a PLD?

B U L L S H I T

I still know my gear because I have memory issues...

Solid Wand
okay I forgot Shield.. sue me
Morion Tathlum
Baron's Chapeu
Black Silk Neckerchief
Morion Earringx2
Baron's Saio
Barion's Cuffs
Eremite Ring+1x2
Black Cape+1
Mercenary Captain's Belt
Savage Loincloth
Garrison Boots

Phalanx, Stoneskin
Thf pulls, War vokes, I line up, SATA me, I nuke, both blm's nuke. I nuke, both blm's nuke. New mob. Repeat.
 
granted RDM is the ultimate multi-tasker job, but they have certain limits.

(e.g.) Meleeing- duoing wise it's fab. as rdm/blm and Beka as blu/whm we can easily take on T-VT mobs without too much of hassle. Even get a chain 3-4 if we play our cards right.

As far as partying goes though, once I hit 51, between switching staves for appropriate enfeebs/MB's/emergency healing..etc i can't really see that as an option. Gear seems to change quite a bit, and landing hits on IT mobs in a party is a bit more complicated. Food wise we need to be concentrating on INT and MND food, but without ACC/STR food the chances of you hitting a mob are incresingly diminished.

Now, believe me, i held onto meleeing on RDM for as long as humanly possible, but once my MP couldn't keep up with the party's pulling speed/ my job duties in the party; even with Convert/Refresh constantly going, it's a hindrance to the party.

Now as far as what Kire said, like 10 pages back... a RDM has to be on par. They have a hundred things to do at once, and mostly, they can all be done. They aren't excluded to being a Refresh whore, casting enfeebs and healing. I MB every chance I get. MB's are what keep me awake in the back row of a party. >.>

And they aren't a waste of MP if you time them carefully. It's unrealistic to think you'll get to burst every skillchain, but I am confident to say i can pull of a decent - really good MB every other skillchain.

If Convert is up and everyone in my Refresh cycle is good. I'll nuke as much as i can, and get as many MB's as I can. (<3 Convert).. and Hasting, as far as I'm concerned, should be taken care of by a whm unless otherwise specified within that party situation.

It takes alot of patience and tolerance for other people to be a good RDM.. if someone sees a Crawler throw up Cocoon, for example, and it isn't Dispeled before the mob is finished casting, there is a birage(sp?) of "Dispel?" within the party chat... Yes, we saw that it threw up Cocoon, but it takes more then .001 seconds from the time the text hits the screen to the time the spell is actually cast....

RDM's as a whole I think are somewhat generalized as the party's everyman.. which is true in a sense. But in the same respect you can't fully replace any other mage job in a party. You can't outcure a WHM, and you can't outnuke a BLM..(unless they're bad.. then you probably could) Each job plays a role in the party that the other can't replace, doesn't matter how much multi-tasking potential you have. RDM has specific jobs traits/requirments just like any other job in the game. As a RDM I am required for spefic things to amke a party work. I can "fill in" for a lacking member, like a WHM or BLM.. but I couldn't replace them completely.

Backing off my rant, if you do it right, a RDM should have no problem keeping Refresh cycle, casting enfeebs/dispeling, EMERGENCY Healing, and bursting skillchains. And that's my two cents.. >.>
 
... feelings aside I have to say you're a good rdm to think that way and I think you will do very well on your way to 75.
 
Windy said:
... feelings aside I have to say you're a good rdm to think that way and I think you will do very well on your way to 75.

/blush.. and thank you. I try hard to be a good rdm, i've seen lots of bad ones leveling my other jobs >.>.. i'm lucky to have had all the help i've gotten from my Linkshell/friends, or i wouldn't know half the stuff i know, and am still learning.. lol..
 
Isollde said:
/blush.. and thank you. I try hard to be a good rdm, i've seen lots of bad ones leveling my other jobs >.>.. i'm lucky to have had all the help i've gotten from my Linkshell/friends, or i wouldn't know half the stuff i know, and am still learning.. lol..
Beka is a good rdm, he can help you through it but if you need additional advice and he doesn't know feel free to ask me. I have never been one to not help upcoming Rdm.. I'm not immensely experienced.. if I don't know though, I will look it up.
 
Courtney said:
You're actually claiming that you convert with >1168HP and 1168MP?

Where?
 
Bigboy said:

Well... here

Bigboy said:
Basically even if we ate the right food and wore all the best MND gear, I will still have over 200MP more than you to use it and my convert ratio is almost perfect just because of being a taru. I crunched the numbers, and if you are going for raw spell power and a deep MP pool, SE has made Taru better suited in everyway. Show me the INT equivilent of devotee mitts, a promise badge, or hell, even holy phial and you can start trying to pull that Elvaan superiority crap. But while you're eating pies to boost your INT and meak MP pool. I can dwarf you in all 3 stats by eating a goblin mushpot thats sold in the lower jeuno goblin shop for 1.4k

Sure you can have more MND but at the cost of everything else.

And looking at my sig:

jobs.gif


which basically would mean your need to have over 1,168 MP and HP for your statement to be true.
 
Uzor said:
Well... here



And looking at my sig:

jobs.gif


which basically would mean your need to have over 1,168 MP and HP for your statement to be true.

But you stated in another thread that all those numbers weren't atainable at the same time for you, you cropped the photo to incorporate the best #s you could get at the time.

Its not a real picture.
 
I'm betting he cropped the Int and Mnd... but the HP/MP are likely the convert macro
 
I'd assume he'd have those HP/MP when he converts though, which is the only place (apart from resting to full MP) that you can get a different amount of usable MP.

The way convert works actually puts Tarus at a disadvantage. Convert changes Actual HP to Max MP, which means that you can boost total MP before the convert and get the full amount. If you try to boost HP before convert though, you have to Cure yourself before convert as well as after, or you miss out on MP.

With Current gear, as well, it's far easier to boost total MP than it is to boost HP...
 
Windy said:
I'm betting he cropped the Int and Mnd... but the HP/MP are likely the convert macro

Yeah thats what I mean. I can break the max mind he has, while still holding more MP. Not keep a convert ratio and do so at the same time. But he can't reach his best stats and hold that convert ratio either. Unfortunetly the gear doesn't allow it.
 
Bigboy said:
Yeah thats what I mean. I can break the max mind he has, while still holding more MP. Not keep a convert ratio and do so at the same time. But he can't reach his best stats and hold that convert ratio either. Unfortunetly the gear doesn't allow it.

You don't have to though... you only need the ratio at convert...

As a RDM though, I'm interested in ways of getting more usable MP. In particular, how you keep saying that you have more usable MP as a Taru. All the calsulations I've ever seen have Tarus at a distinct disadvantage in RDM MP because of the difficulties in boosting HP to convert...
 
Bigboy said:
Yeah thats what I mean. I can break the max mind he has, while still holding more MP. Not keep a convert ratio and do so at the same time. But he can't reach his best stats and hold that convert ratio either. Unfortunetly the gear doesn't allow it.

oh, it does. And I can get more MND with my current gear. Like I said, that sig is outdated
 
Courtney said:
I'd assume he'd have those HP/MP when he converts though, which is the only place (apart from resting to full MP) that you can get a different amount of usable MP.

The way convert works actually puts Tarus at a disadvantage. Convert changes Actual HP to Max MP, which means that you can boost total MP before the convert and get the full amount. If you try to boost HP before convert though, you have to Cure yourself before convert as well as after, or you miss out on MP.

With Current gear, as well, it's far easier to boost total MP than it is to boost HP...

Yes, there is a slight disadvantage, but not really, if you look at what convert is doing for you, its getting you more MP. If I already have 200~ more and I keep myself full from refresh, aspirs, and whatnot I have alot more MP at my disposal, and I am doing it without replacing good stat gear with good MP gear. The nice part about it is, that my extra mp over other races can be used at full potentcy, since I am not wearing gear to contain it, but am doing it myself, with the gear that makes that MP matter most.
 
Uzor said:
oh, it does. And I can get more MND with my current gear. Like I said, that sig is outdated

OK, now I'm interested again...

What gear are you using to get both an 968 convert, and >+50 MND simultaneously?
 
Bigboy said:
Yes, there is a slight disadvantage, but not really, if you look at what convert is doing for you, its getting you more MP. If I already have 200~ more and I keep myself full from refresh, aspirs, and whatnot I have alot more MP at my disposal, and I am doing it without replacing good stat gear with good MP gear. The nice part about it is, that my extra mp over other races can be used at full potentcy, since I am not wearing gear to contain it, but am doing it myself, with the gear that makes that MP matter most.

Not at all. Usable MP (in all endgame situations, except for maybe one-off short fights) is really only related to the speed you can regenerate that MP.
Refresh, Refresh effects, Aspir, Clear Mind are unaffected by race. The only racial difference in MP regeneration is in the convert, which also provides about 50-70% of our usable MP...

And we're casting at full potency too... the gear that we use to maximise MP disappears after the curing to full (which requires only a Lightstaff)...
 
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