Teh 1337 Rdm debate.......

[Uzor]

lol you must be tired because thats not an excuse! You're not doing equip swaps in town right? And I have seen most of your gear when I have seen you in town, but not all. I've heard of equip swaps, but I'm not spaz enough to use them in towns for no reason. Are you? Cuz thats the only reason I can see you bothering to mention them...

Then maybe you can mention it since you've seen it all?

Either way, from how you say you play RDM "Convert doesn't matter, just use it whenever!", and just casting enfeebles and refresh, you don't seem like a very good one...

Just curious where you were since you werent at home to post proof less than 30 minutes before you said you were going to bed. Sleep over? or just dodging more?

huh?!

 

[Ewok]

You know what cost effient means? lol
say 100mp for fire3 (idk mp cost) does 200damage

haste 40mp on a nin = less need for cures as Uts is up and more DD power as they swing faster,

Saves alot more mp = less down time

Ok, I've argued in favor of AM MBing with people who said the same thing.... get over the damn MP effiency thing. If its so important, only use tier 1 nukes and drain, since they are technically the most mp effient nukes in the game (ok ok, excluding that damn 8k+ MB'd Burst II lol). Rdm's do great on MB's in exp parties. As long as other things like buffs, debuffs, and refresh dont suffer, let them contribute.

 

[Ewok]

Wow... I can't believe I'm going to say this... but Kire is right -shudders and dies a little inside-. a RDM nuking is pretty worthless MP waste. I just nuked til my Elemental Magic was capped just 'cause I wanted all my skills capped. But damage was shit and really isn't worth it.. SURE RDM's do have nukes and can use them but why? We have so much other things to worry about then to toss a Thunder III MB for 50 dmg.

And on a side not... Kire seems to know as much as Khidir -misspelling- since it seems he has /SMN. Thats as good as seeing a RDM/NIN in the party.

Were you killing mobs too high for your party? 50 seems kind of low, I've seen more at lower lvls from lower tier nukes(200+ at lvl 50 I believe, was on my BLU at the time, its only currently 53)

 

[Ewok]

So in your own little world... since a DRK has Black Magic... they should Magic Burst everytime too? RDM nuking is worthless in a party. It's mainly there for soloing purposes.

Drk doesnt get to rest nearly as often, because their melee IS important and useful, unlike RDM's. TP> MP on DRK.

 

[Ewok]

But if everyone is hasted, and fights only survive one SC, what are you gonna use that MP on? Nuking just cuts down the time melee's need to get TP for the next fight. Sometimes its good to remember other jobs need to do things to be effective, and we can't interfere too much. Biggest mistakes I see RDMs make is burning their MP before convert and leaving the melee without enough TP to start the next fight. Another big one is spamming buffs and confusing WHMs. It all sounds like a good idea at the time, but I try to play on a different level. My convert is used so I can always do the same things at an even pace and never ever run out of MP. I don't need to squeeze the last last drops out of my MP pool and convert timer, because I have already done everything.

Maybe I just play on a different level than most, but it seems like being fluid and efficient is more effective to me, at least thats what my XP per hour shows me.

Actually, this is a good point, I've actually rested a little longer on blm for this reason, netting myself more mp and the melee more tp (only did it when the melee gave regular tp reports). Its justa balancing act.

 

[Prothall]

and Hasting, as far as I'm concerned, should be taken care of by a whm unless otherwise specified within that party situation.

/slap everone for missing this statement. What a load of crap. Sounds like a huge "not my job" statement to me. Kire is right, Hasting a lot more MP efficient for RDM to cast that magic. Although, since you can't haste people twice, once everyone is hasted- that leaves you open to do other less MP efficient things to do with mp, such as nuke.

Now I realize you might not have enough time to do that in a normal party situation with you as the only refresher. But if you are partying with a bard past 55 or a cor past 40ish, you will definitely have enough MP to main heal and nuke in the same party. Especially since cor has random deal and gives you back your vert sometimes.

 

[Ewok]

Oh yeah bigboy... Nuking is a useless waste even when MP is no issue. riiiiiight. Because when the mobs die faster.... the melees can't get TP! What is the point of not speeding up this kill, just so they can TP for the next fight? Maybe if you have a THF or /thf that wants to do SATA sc in the beginning for hate. But otherwise, you may as well finish off the one you are fighting, and start building TP while you are fighting the next one anyway.

You act as if killing the mob faster isn't your job, and helping DD is a complete waste of time.
[sarcasm]Maybe I should hold back killing mobs on my BLM so that melees can get TP. I think that would be awesome.[/sarcasm]

edit: edited first line cause it didn't make sense.
Last I heard the way to cap exp was to kill mobs faster.

Just want to point out, having thf or /thf in party is usually when i held back, lol.

 

[Prothall]

Yeah, i dunno if it's just me, but i haven't been partying much with SATA in the expansion. The fights usually just go so quick there that it just isn't useful enough.

 

[Uzor]

Actually, this is a good point, I've actually rested a little longer on blm for this reason, netting myself more mp and the melee more tp (only did it when the melee gave regular tp reports). Its justa balancing act.

In a normal party situation, anything past around 100 TP is rather useless, as you'll want to SC with the other melee soon as possible, and thus, nuking won't really matter (as you won't want to use your TP at the end of a fight anyway, as the BLM's MB will be wasted).

/slap everone for missing this statement. What a load of crap. Sounds like a huge "not my job" statement to me. Kire is right, Hasting a lot more MP efficient for RDM to cast that magic. Although, since you can't haste people twice, once everyone is hasted- that leaves you open to do other less MP efficient things to do with mp, such as nuke.

Now I realize you might not have enough time to do that in a normal party situation with you as the only refresher. But if you are partying with a bard past 55 or a cor past 40ish, you will definitely have enough MP to main heal and nuke in the same party. Especially since cor has random deal and gives you back your vert sometimes.

You should already be hasting people, so its not more MP efficient. And as for someone elses "just stick to tier-1 nukes" statement. MP efficiency is not about casting stuff that costs as little MP as possible. Its about doing as much damage as possible with as little MP as possible. And AM spells are, by far, the least MP efficient nukes in the game. You could do the same damage they do with other spells and still waste less MP when you first get them. But that's a whole other topic.

Hell, AM-2 isn't that MP efficient either. Tier-4 spells are far more MP efficient if you're going by a normal party situation.

a RDM's job is to increase the exp/hr, not to be a refresh whore (alhough refresh whore is one of the parts included). Every job's job is to increase the exp/hr actually, and that is what all jobs have in common.

 

[Bigboy]

Then maybe you can mention it since you've seen it all?

Either way, from how you say you play RDM "Convert doesn't matter, just use it whenever!", and just casting enfeebles and refresh, you don't seem like a very good one...!

I've never known you to just make shit up outta no where. >.>

Wow, you've fallen dude.

The whole thead I have repeated to you that I completely take over other people's jobs and still have MP, and I mention my MBing as well. And from that you draw those conclutions and present them as fact?

Sad.

 

[Uzor]

I've never known you to just make shit up outta no where. >.>

Wow, you've fallen dude.

The whole thead I have repeated to you that I completely take over other people's jobs and still have MP, and I mention my MBing as well. And from that you draw those conclutions and present them as fact?

Sad.

Um, since when did you say that? Earlier you said you don't MB because it slows the melees TP gain down. You also said the only reason you nuked earlier was to cap elemental magic.

So what you're saying is that you're repeating things you've never said? Right...

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Can we please quit arguing? We all know RDM is the best job and that even those BLM pale in comparison. XD

 

[Bigboy]

Um, since when did you say that? Earlier you said you don't MB because it slows the melees TP gain down. You also said the only reason you nuked earlier was to cap elemental magic.

So what you're saying is that you're repeating things you've never said? Right...

I was the first in the thread to say RDM elemental magic wasn't 200 DMG nuking and that I do MB. I just dont free-nuke.

Wow... I can't believe I'm going to say this... but Kire is right -shudders and dies a little inside-. a RDM nuking is pretty worthless MP waste. I just nuked til my Elemental Magic was capped just 'cause I wanted all my skills capped. But damage was shit and really isn't worth it.. SURE RDM's do have nukes and can use them but why? We have so much other things to worry about then to toss a Thunder III MB for 50 dmg.

The above was not said by me.

 

[Rufus_Shinra]

Wow... I can't believe I'm going to say this... but Kire is right -shudders and dies a little inside-. a RDM nuking is pretty worthless MP waste. I just nuked til my Elemental Magic was capped just 'cause I wanted all my skills capped. But damage was shit and really isn't worth it.. SURE RDM's do have nukes and can use them but why? We have so much other things to worry about then to toss a Thunder III MB for 50 dmg.

Because a little extra damage, no matter how small, is still extra damage. And if you can't free nuke or MB and still do your regular duties, then your not a very good RDM at all.

RDM have the most free MP to use next to SMN. I look at Convert as giving you an extra mana pool to use if you use Convert properly.

So nuking, even for minor damage, is still damage. And you can do it without suffering in your other areas if your good. But again, if you cant nuke and do regular duties at the same time, your a shitty RDM.

 

[Bigboy]

Because a little extra damage, no matter how small, is still extra damage. And if you can't free nuke or MB and still do your regular duties, then your not a very good RDM at all.

RDM have the most free MP to use next to SMN. I look at Convert as giving you an extra mana pool to use if you use Convert properly.

So nuking, even for minor damage, is still damage. And you can do it without suffering in your other areas if your good. But again, if you cant nuke and do regular duties at the same time, your a shitty RDM.

Of course, if you have the MP and time to do that, it's prolly better used pulling/sleeping/debuffing the next mob for chain.

 

[DarkMagnus]

Last few pages have been me vs. you, kinda funny.

 

[Uzor]

I was the first in the thread to say RDM elemental magic wasn't 200 DMG nuking and that I do MB. I just dont free-nuke.



The above was not said by me.

You said you didn't MB either.

And no one said a RDM should free nuke -.- that's just stupid.

Of course, if you have the MP and time to do that, it's prolly better used pulling/sleeping/debuffing the next mob for chain.

yeah, because the RDM should be pulling in a normal exp party?

 

[Bigboy]

You said you didn't MB either.

And no one said a RDM should free nuke -.- that's just stupid.



yeah, because the RDM should be pulling in a normal exp party?

I've done it. You were so fond of that swiss army knife analogy a little bit ago, a change of heart perhaps? If I am the only one with sleep, it kinda makes me the only one who can do that doesn't it? XD

I'm suprised everyone who talkedd about nuking used such small #s. If I nuke, its almost always over 600 raw. But I suppose taru INT and HQ staves make that difference. I'll admit I don't burst on every SC though. But I also PT with people who are pretty elite so bursting on every one of them would eat through my MP in a snap. I can usually run out of my MP if I nuke outside of MBs (and I am only working with 2 other people).

This was my first post in the thread (first paragraph). It explains why I dont always MB and covered pretty much all the things you accused me of. No where in there does it say I dont MB.

 

[Uzor]

I've done it. You were so fond of that swiss army knife analogy a little bit ago, a change of heart perhaps? If I am the only one with sleep, it kinda makes me the only one who can do that doesn't it? XD

Only one who can do what? Pull? I'm sure the THf, RNG, or someone else, would love to pull.

This was my first post in the thread (first paragraph). It explains why I dont always MB and covered pretty much all the things you accused me of. No where in there does it say I dont MB.

the reason I argued with you abotu it was 'cause of your offensive tone about the whoel subject. I don't care who it was that mentioned things, you still talk about not doing them. And also about it "being better" to nuke after 20 min instead of 10.

 

[Prothall]

/slap everone for missing this statement. What a load of crap. Sounds like a huge "not my job" statement to me. Kire is right, Hasting a lot more MP efficient for RDM to cast that magic. Although, since you can't haste people twice, once everyone is hasted- that leaves you open to do other less MP efficient things to do with mp, such as nuke.

Now I realize you might not have enough time to do that in a normal party situation with you as the only refresher. But if you are partying with a bard past 55 or a cor past 40ish, you will definitely have enough MP to main heal and nuke in the same party. Especially since cor has random deal and gives you back your vert sometimes.

You should already be hasting people, so its not more MP efficient. And as for someone elses "just stick to tier-1 nukes" statement. MP efficiency is not about casting stuff that costs as little MP as possible. Its about doing as much damage as possible with as little MP as possible. And AM spells are, by far, the least MP efficient nukes in the game. You could do the same damage they do with other spells and still waste less MP when you first get them. But that's a whole other topic.

First off... that was said by me- quoting him. Second, we are arguing the same point uzor. I said you should be hasting people since it's a more efficient use of your time. Then you come back and say, "You should already be hasting people, so its not more MP efficient", which makes no sense really.

You said you didn't MB either.

And no one said a RDM should free nuke -.- that's just stupid.

It isn't stupid if you have nothing else useful to do with your MP. This happens a lot with partying with COR when you get random deal resetting your Vert timer and refreshing you as well.