Thank you DynamisEpitome!

[jyakotsu]

In the end, my purpose of writing the flame wasn't to continue argueing with brick walls. I made this flame to be more of a rant. 30+ people were inconvenienced because of the leadership of another shell that believes ignoring is the better way to handle a scheduling conflict.

Just clarification of why I was so pissed last night about it when they tried to flame us. We had planned an attestation run for the night. We didn't even plan on taking all the extentions. In fact we didn't take 3 of them because they were too far out of the way to get to they wouldn't be beneficial. Just before we pull our first Attestation mob, they DEMAND we leave the zone because they had also scheduled the run. We killed the NM we needed and then went to kill another NM we could use.
We didn't even attempt the other extensions when we killed the first NM we needed with 40 min left on the clock. How fucking retarded are you to ask a shell right as they pull the pinnacle of the their run to drop glasses and leave because you are an impatient little bitch (which, as said earlier, would have done no one any good because you still couldn't enter)

I think this best explains why a leader might be a little busy during the run to answer your questions. You should be well aware the length of time beaucidine lasts, as well as the entry time that they should have entered. You AGAIN for the 20th fucking time, posted after DE.... Don't you think you could have changed your schedule.... I'm sure there were other zones available. So instead of your 30 people being inconvenienced... I'm sure you would rather have their 30 people inconvenienced instead? That kind of is a dick move as well... On your part.

 

[Achates]

After the dust settles Dynamis is first come first serve. All the rest is politics and bullshit. It's a game.

People need to let go of their virtual lives and live in a real society again. Jyak, seriously, let the game go or get your char back.

As for the OP, it happens. It will continue to happen. You are not the first; you woln't be the last. Smearing a dynamis shell for entering late is like telling the whole world to fuck off. It's really not effective in doing anything.

I do agree that standing on your personal morales is a good thing. You still cannot make people act how you want them to by pissing on a flameboard.

 

[RaidrX]

also, who cares who posted first, i dont see how that argument can go on for this long. If we all want to reread the scheduling guidelines, it basically says to post what your shell needs, then work around it from there, which is what zer did. If it was a first come first serve basis it would be hell to schedule anything.

It completely matters who posted first. If you see a shell posted their schedule and were planning to run at 6 itd be a pretty fucking stupid idea to post your schedule saying you want to run at 9 and then complain when they use there hour glass to the fullest and you have to wait. Thats kinda the whole idea behind having this forum so you can see when other people are planning to run and then plan your schedule around it.

Also when you say this in your flame:

Earlier this month, RidersOfRohan (dynamis) posted our schedule on QCDN as with all to other shells. Before our schedule was posted, I checked the other shells that run prior to us. I made sure that before our schedule was posted, there would be no conflicts to save the headache of having to ask another shell to rework their schedule.

A few days later, DynamisEpitome finally gets around to posting their schedule and a conflict is noted.

You can't say you checked for conflicts, then make up shit about how they posted after you (dates don't lie), and then shit bricks when they don't change their schedule.

As far as communication, their should have to be NONE. If zerayla had actually checked for conflicts like she said she had then you could have entered at 9:30 and no one would have had to have been inconvenienced. Talk about arguing with a brick wall, it seems like you guys think you're the only people who run dynamis.

If you really have problems with DE then switch nights for god sakes. Wed/Thurs/Sun all have the latest schedule groups going in at 8:00 EST giving you a 4 hour gap from when you currently run. Meaning a group could enter 30 mins late, hit every extension and you'd still enter on time.

Really not that difficult.

 

[Grandphoenix]

It's not easy either though because obviously they run on the day that's convenient for them and their lolreallife

 

[motley]

From the scheduling forum rules...

Why the short window:
This is not intended to be a first come, first served basis however the intent here is that schedules be in on time so that everyone can start ironing out the kinks together. What I am trying to avoid is having a situation where there are 6 shells on one day and two shells post early, then work out the split of northlands between themselves. Now when the other four shells show up additional adjustments must be made. Everything may start out easygoing but I can see things deteriorating into a "well we worked this out three weeks ago where were you?" situation. Especially if two, three or even four shells are always early and the other two or so are in more at the end of the month.

So the timestamps mean nothing, it is NOT a first come first serve system, but merely a window to post schedules so that shells can work out conflicts peacefully...

I have two questions:

First, why wasn't this handled by conflict resolutions?

Second, why didnt RoR just move their glacier run to 10/14, the only shell that has it is perse at 7PM, 5 hours before. , you also couldve done sandy on 10/7 because the Sandy run you would lose on 10/14 is being run by Insurrection.

So switching your 10/7 and 10/14 runs wouldve resolved ALL conflicts unless theres a minute detail im missing

 

[Marajade]

Its true, its not specifically a first come first serve. The issue is that they (RoR) Are claiming the arranged their schedule so as to work around all posted ones, and then DE came in and jacked their shit. This was proven not to be the case, then acts got stupid and started with the "they should change because its our timeslot" junk, and then we ended up here.

And also, while it is not in fact a first come first serve, I do believe that the group who posts their shedule up first does in fact have more leeway in terms of negotiating with other shells who post later. If I go to the effort of planning out my schedule ahead of time, I don't want to go back and change it again two weeks later when some other shell finally gets around to putting it up, forcing me to likely change how its posted on my LS calender, which may cause problems if I'm trying to schedule certain runs on specific days that my members can make it so they can get the wins, and thus access northlands/tavanzia/ect.

No, its not first come first serve, but the late poster shell has to offer the compromise, not demand the first shell change their schedule, as is what happened here.

So switching your 10/7 and 10/14 runs wouldve resolved ALL conflicts unless theres a minute detail im missing

I doubt they even tried to consider that, since they preferred to jump the gun and be all offended that someone wouldn't up and change because they asked.

Or because a leader or two had plans for 10/14 and didn't want a northlands run on a day they couldn't show up to lot gear.

Who knows?

 

[eiteen]

I do believe that the group who posts their shedule up first does in fact have more leeway in terms of negotiating with other shells who post later. If I go to the effort of planning out my schedule ahead of time, I don't want to go back and change it again two weeks later when some other shell finally gets around to putting it up, forcing me to likely change how its posted on my LS calender, which may cause problems if I'm trying to schedule certain runs on specific days that my members can make it so they can get the wins, and thus access northlands/tavanzia/ect.

this..

From the scheduling forum rules...
Why the short window:
What I am trying to avoid is having a situation where there are 6 shells on one day and two shells post early, then work out the split of northlands between themselves.

great job posting first but the point is not to have 'first dibs' you still have to go back and work out whatever conflicts have been made, which i personally think DE didn't put too much effort in resolving.

 

[acts]

So you think that because your'e the older shell noone should be running at the same time as you?

Compromises have to be made, but you've made a schedule without checking whether the zone was already taken, and then you've expected the shell that already booked the zone to just move. If you're communications were in anything like the tone you and Zeralya have used here, where you both seem to think you had a right to the zone, then I wouldn't have been discussing anything with you either.

This is coming from the oldest NA Dynamis shell on the server, and we don't have any more right to a zone than anyone else...

A) We did make a schedule that we had checked before posting to make sure it didn't conflict. apparently, since we posted at qcdn later (but already had our schedule resolved on our boards), it conflicted with DE.

B) We did make a communication with them on a positive note. It's the F U part coming back that gets us

C) We're getting conflicting information. First people tell us they post first, so they have right because it's first come first serve basis. If that's the case, then shouldn't our first come first basis scheduling at 9 PM have been honored? Now people are saying it's not first come first serve basis. Well, in that case, wouldn't it have been in their best interest to also try to talk with us better? How is it our fault and only our fault? Leaving us with a Screw You attitude, you guys [oldest NA Dynamis Shell] probably would have been mad, too.

 

[acts]

You know, this whole flame board thing is stupid and a big mess.

Half the people here don't have all the facts, and people jump in thinking they know this and that and it just creates a bunch of FUD.

Is there anyway to request via Admin to have this board locked please?

I'm one of the leaders of RoR and I'm going to contact the leaders of DE and have it resolved outside of the flame board.

This is my last post in this thread.

 

[Audino]

Just as an aside, I see users and even moderators getting things twisted in here. The dynamis system on QCDN is NOT a first come first serve basis. Just because someone posted a schedule a day before another shell does NOT automatically give people the rights to the zones. If there's a conflict, people are expected to be mature enough to work it out.

There are some shells though that always made my job much easier and would wait to post their schedules after seeing what zones everyone else took. You guys know who you are, thanks again for making that job easier!

 

[Tristam Green]

The only question I have in all this is:

On whom does the responsibility lie to begin resolutions when a conflict does arise?

I would *think* that the Shell with the later post/request would, and that just seems logical to me. As a Shell Leader, I would expect that when the words "posted to days" shows up from the Coordinator after my request, that's effectively end-of-story (unless I need to make schedule changes) from my end, and any conflicts that might occur after that point because of another Shell's request should be brought directly to me, not the other way around.

 

[Audino]

The only question I have in all this is:

On whom does the responsibility lie to begin resolutions when a conflict does arise?

I would *think* that the Shell with the later post/request would, and that just seems logical to me. As a Shell Leader, I would expect that when the words "posted to days" shows up from the Coordinator after my request, that's effectively end-of-story (unless I need to make schedule changes) from my end, and any conflicts that might occur after that point because of another Shell's request should be brought directly to me, not the other way around.

How is it end of story when "posted to days" is put up? I used to post that just so people knew I filled in their slot on the right day. That doesn't mean someone else might not want the same zone. Since most of us are adults here, why does the responsibility have to lie on one person? People just need to check their own threads every now and then to see if there was any conflict noted. If you notice it before whichever shell is conflicting, PM them asking to work something out. Its PM'ing about dynamis, I don't get why there's a level of pride or what have you here lol. Who cares who PMs who first?

I don't know. When I had Encore people were always fast to get in touch with me about conflicts and I was always fast to reply or get in touch with them first. Hopefully things haven't changed too much!

 

[Stine]

From what Audino posted I think it's safe to say that shells should try to read what other linkshells have posted as their schedule and work around it. Also, practice common courtesy and good shell relations (especially those that run within the same time frame) by contacting the other shells if there is a problem. Yes I know not everyone is going to get along and several shells might want the same zone but everyone should be adults and find a good solution that works for everyone. It makes it easier on everyone including the dynamis coordinator.

 

[Lavi]

Should also note that even if that previous group did enter on time, they can still run for up to 4 hours (maybe more?) going over the next group's time slot by at least one hour if they entered on time. That should be pretty obvious, but no one bothered to contact the other group until they had already gone inside and were over that time where there is the LEAST options to negotiate.

 

[Isollde]

Should also note that even if that previous group did enter on time, they can still run for up to 4 hours (maybe more?) going over the next group's time slot by at least one hour if they entered on time. That should be pretty obvious, but no one bothered to contact the other group until they had already gone inside and were over that time where there is the LEAST options to negotiate.

Actually no. I posted the conflict in both shell's threads, as I posted their runs to their days, and I pm'd them, with more then enough time to come to a compromise.

I have to side with Zer in this point. Dalkiel had more then enough time to work with Zer's ls, and he just didn't bother to. DE had 3 Glacier runs scheduled this month, I really fail to see how hard it wold have been to just switch a few days around.

 

[Grandphoenix]

Should also note that even if that previous group did enter on time, they can still run for up to 4 hours (maybe more?) going over the next group's time slot by at least one hour if they entered on time. That should be pretty obvious, but no one bothered to contact the other group until they had already gone inside and were over that time where there is the LEAST options to negotiate.

That's a crock of bullshit read the thread and the dynamis scheduling threads there was plenty attempts of negotiation.

 

[Lavi]

Actually no. I posted the conflict in both shell's threads, as I posted their runs to their days, and I pm'd them, with more then enough time to come to a compromise.

I have to side with Zer in this point. Dalkiel had more then enough time to work with Zer's ls, and he just didn't bother to. DE had 3 Glacier runs scheduled this month, I really fail to see how hard it wold have been to just switch a few days around.

Actually, yes. On that DAY, perhaps you did do that, but if I look at other days, you neglected them. I know this because I've had to exit early BECAUSE of this. I can look at dynamis scheduling and find multiple instances especially in previous months (I know you just started, but you missed some too) where nothing was said to any of the groups.

I don't know the exact details, but Zer's not exactly innocent, it was her responsibility to do something before and nothing came of it. If it was Dalkiel who basically monopolized the zones because there was nothing to stop him, then I might agree. However, he only had 1 glacier on a Tuesday run which makes a whole hell of a lot of difference compared to that 3 you mentioned. That means RoR had 3-4 other days in which they could have scheduled a glacier run without problems with this shell.

 

[Amerie]

All this drama over dynamis scheduling?

 

[Courtney]

You know, this whole flame board thing is stupid and a big mess.

Half the people here don't have all the facts, and people jump in thinking they know this and that and it just creates a bunch of FUD.

Is there anyway to request via Admin to have this board locked please?

I'm one of the leaders of RoR and I'm going to contact the leaders of DE and have it resolved outside of the flame board.

This is my last post in this thread.

We only have the facts that you guys brought in. You started the flame.

 

[Isollde]

Actually, yes. On that DAY, perhaps you did do that, but if I look at other days, you neglected them. I know this because I've had to exit early BECAUSE of this. I can look at dynamis scheduling and find multiple instances especially in previous months (I know you just started, but you missed some too) where nothing was said to any of the groups.

I don't know the exact details, but Zer's not exactly innocent, it was her responsibility to do something before and nothing came of it. If it was Dalkiel who basically monopolized the zones because there was nothing to stop him, then I might agree. However, he only had 1 glacier on a Tuesday run which makes a whole hell of a lot of difference compared to that 3 you mentioned. That means RoR had 3-4 other days in which they could have scheduled a glacier run without problems with this shell.

Dalkiel had 3-4 other days that they could have changed their run to as well. I didn't even get an acknowledgement from Dalkiel in reguards to the conflict when I intially told him of it. Zer let me know she saw the conflict and also let me know she made the intial step to try and resolve and come to some sort of agreement.compromise.

I can't make the leads of these shells switch their days and runs so that there is comnpromise, that is their responsibility. Yeah, I'm sure there were and will be times when a past mod, or myself will miss a conflict, but I think those times are few and far between compared to the ones we see and get in contact with the conflicting shells/runs.