Thanks for staying batshit insane, Nintendo.

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El have you even played wind waker, OoT, MM, Zelda, or Link?

If you have you'd have to be damn near blind not to see the stories link up.....
 
Sabia said:
If you have you'd have to be damn near blind not to see the stories link up.....

Haha I made a pun!!'

zelda1.gif


PS: If I had a dick that wavebird would give me a boner
 
I've played all completely through except wind waker. I've played a bit of wind waker on a friend's system but that's it.

and Dirge... I'm just pointing out that Zelda doesn't change much. It really doesn't. Characters, Story, Gameplay, Music, World, all seem to stay the same. If that means they are linked in timeline than I wanna know how the stories link up when it's the same story over and over again. (Other than a few zeldas where there was a considerable change in over all story, I.E, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask) I did like wind waker's new gameplay compared to the others, it was a nice change. Finaly Fantasy does not retain the same characters, story, music, and world. Gameplay does change but not on a very drastic level. Really, there are few things reused. Names, some summons perhaps (mostly in names than and basic concept of what they are i.e Bahamut = dragon) are about the only thing the same from one FF to the next. That is why I consider Zelda and FF different. That's why I can be upset with Zelda unchanging and not upset with FF unchanging (cause it is always changing). I can see how MM and OoT are linked. I've been told Wind Waker is linked in the sense that Hyrule is in a bubble under the water and it is hundred or so years after. However I am not entirely sure if they are linked. If they are I'd like to know exactly how every Zelda game links with the next and how this timeline goes.

And no Dirge.. I don't have a problem if someone has a different taste than mine.. but you 4 or so tend to ignore when people throw the sales status world wide that are facts as proof of Nintendo not being so mighty compared to the other things.. and then get upset and make it seem as if Nintendo actually cares about you. Nintendo is a company like the rest.. they just want to keep getting money. And then, finally, rather get annoyed when people completely ignore when things like Mario just get rehashed over and over again into piles of crap and with no improvement on ANYTHING about it.
 
Elemmire said:
Zelda doesn't change much. It really doesn't. Characters, Story, Gameplay, Music, World, all seem to stay the same. If that means they are linked in timeline than I wanna know how the stories link up when it's the same story over and over again.

Characters: Link . . . umm only if you name him Link . . . Many different Links, many different Zeldas.

Story . . . most of the storys center around Gannondorf wanting to get his grubby mitts on Zelda because she has part of the tri-force, but not all of them . . . like I dunno . . . Minish Cap . . . 4 swords . . . Link's Awakening

but the entire series revolves around Gannon's quest for 1337 powerz!

Gameplay: Hrmm . . . Z-Target set the standard for action games to follow, Nintendo built on the in Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. Other games we Top down and employed a lot of interesting abilities to keep that area from stagnating through use of different quest items.

Music: Aside from the main Zelda theme each game's music varries quite a bit, listen and realize you're wrong . . . but I mean Final Fantasy never reused a song like that in I II III IV IX . . . no? something reminds me of crystals . . . but I can't place it.

World: Yeah Hyrule . . . cool place huh? when it's not over run by moblins and octorocks . . . notice how while the setting is the same the landscape is always different?? No . . . how about in Majora's Mask when you're in Termina and not Hyrule . . . still the same huh? hrmmm looks different, plays different . . . not a lot of symmetry here . . . oh well.

As for stories linking up (there's that pun again)

The ones that are very closely tied together are OOT > Majora's Mask > Wind Waker . . . now if you know your Zelda and you wanted to place the rest . . . well the rest all fall after those three . . . google a timeline for yourself!

Elemmire said:
I can see how MM and OoT are linked. I've been told Wind Waker is linked in the sense that Hyrule is in a bubble under the water and it is hundred or so years after. However I am not entirely sure if they are linked. If they are I'd like to know exactly how every Zelda game links with the next and how this timeline goes.

If you had bothered to read the story at the beginning of Wind Waker it uses word things to make it pretty clear what happened . . . And yes The Hyrule from MM and OOT is at the bottom of the ocean.

Elemmire said:
And no Dirge.. I don't have a problem if someone has a different taste than mine.. but you 4 or so tend to ignore when people throw the sales status world wide that are facts as proof of Nintendo not being so mighty compared to the other things..

Then why oh why do you need to shit on every post that says Nintendo if you are so fucking self important??

As for sales figures show me evidence where I've done this and I'll recant my wicked ways.

Nintendo is 3rd in the console wars . . . REALLY!? I thought there was 12 GameCubes in every home!! THOSE NUMBERS ARE THE PRODUCT OF WITCH CRAFT I SAY!!

PSP and the DS are kinda teeter tottering . . . personally I favour the DS, good price point, I'm down with the touching *snigger* and Castlevania . . . nuff said . . . PSP is just a lot of shit I'd be paying for I'd never use, it would be either lent out at this point or collecting dust.

Elemmire said:
and then get upset and make it seem as if Nintendo actually cares about you. Nintendo is a company like the rest.. they just want to keep getting money. And then, finally, rather get annoyed when people completely ignore when things like Mario just get rehashed over and over again into piles of crap and with no improvement on ANYTHING about it.

First of all . . . I don't think Nintendo will be sending me any christmas cards this year . . . Sabia got a cool one from them last year though, I'm sure Carth did too.

And my position has nothing to do with corporate loyalty, or the hopes that one day I'll come home from work and Miyamoto will be in my kitchen cooking up dinner (though that would be pretty cool), again with the drifting . . .

Okay, you claim Nintendo is stagnant . . . I fail to see how. They're the only company that's trying to move from the wheel to something new and possibly awsome . . . while everyone else just wants to put bigger tires on their systems so to speak.

Now this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but without any new innovation in the gaming industry new graphics chips . . . and cell cpu's will only take you so far without something daring to push them past that.

Metal Gear will just get better graphics, but it will still always just be Metal Gear . . . stagnant . . . GTA will get shinier cars and more realistic ho beatings . . . but it'll still just be GTA . . . stagnant. You see where I'm going with this?? Accusing Nintendo of being stuck in a rutt is like saying chocolates and flowers suck around Valentines . . .

As for rehashing . . . Maybe just maybe you're wrong . . . call me a fucking lunatic but hey . . . maybe people like Mario enough to keep playing games with him in it.

I don't know . . . Sunshine while not the best Mario did some really cool things that set it apart from any other mario title . . . as did 64, Super Mario World . . . 3 . . . 2
 
For those who havn't acutally played the Zelda games and yet still try to convince us that there is no order to them here's a detailed history taken from Wikipedia. Some of it's up in the air but it's a pretty good explanation considering in wind waker the church where the master sword is sealed is surrouned by stained glass windows dipicting the sages from the previous OoT game.

Chronology

The chronology of the fictional Zelda universe is debated among fans. As time progressed and more games were released, the order of the games in an overall timeline became complex and heavily disputed.

On November 13, 1998, series creator Shigeru Miyamoto was interviewed by Nintendo Power Magazine. When asked where the Zelda games fall when arranged chronologically by their stories, his response was:

Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.

Official Zelda.com Old Interview,

(NOTE: This interview has since been revealed to have been mistranslated. Nintendo of America, Inc no longer endorses the quote and Shigeru Miyamoto says it is not the timeline nor was this the timeline he meant to convey) [If anyone could provide a source for this it would be greatly appreciated.]
Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

Despite how daunting trying to figure out the chronology of the Zelda games is today this was not always the case. It goes without saying that when there was only one game in the series, The Legend of Zelda, there was no problem. Its sequel, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link caused no problems either, simply taking place no longer than a short few years after the original game's story.

The third game in the series, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, is where the chronology of the series started to get interesting. This was actually a prequel, set in ancient times before the original two games (as was advertised on the back of the Japanese edition's packaging). The game told the origin of the series' villain, Ganon, and that he was once a thief named Ganondorf. The fourth game in the series, The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening was made clear in the opening prologue in the instruction manual to take place a relatively short time after A Link to the Past, this is supported in the game which features a few visual references to it.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time expanded upon A Link to the Past's opening prologue, showing Ganon back when he was merely the thief Ganondorf and how he first came into contact with the Triforce and was subsequently sealed into the tainted Sacred Realm by the Seven Sages. These events establish the game as a prequel to A Link to the Past. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask took place a short time after Ocarina of Time.

This was the last point at which the full chronology of the Zelda series would remain simple. The next games, The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons, which were released simultaneously and featured linked storyline through a password system, proved to be the most ambiguous Zelda games yet as far as the chronology of the series is concerned. They did not take place in the same era as Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, nor the era of The Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link, because they featured a different version of the character Impa.

It is established in the two Oracle games that the Triforce is whole and resting in Hyrule Castle and that Ganon is dead and needs to be revived through magic. Ganon had been killed in two of the previously released Zelda games, The Legend of Zelda and A Link to the Past, and the Triforce was united by the forces of good at the end of two previously released games also, The Adventure of Link and A Link to the Past, so the Oracle games were likely intended to take place at one of these points. Also of note is that the prologue to The Adventure of Link tells of a time when the King of Hyrule ruled the land with the whole Triforce, which would take place chronologically an unspecified amount of generations before the original The Legend of Zelda game.

There has been some debate as to what relationship the Oracle games have with Link's Awakening, and by extension A Link to the Past. The final scene in the true ending to the Oracle games showed Link leaving the land on a small ship that resembles the ship Link is travelling on in the intro sequence to Link's Awakening. The ship in the Oracle games' true ending sequence is also being followed by seagulls, which are of great symbolic significance in Link's Awakening. The references to the defeat of Ganon in Link's Awakening's prologue and the visual reference to Agahnim within the game itself could, in theory, be retroactively applied to the two Oracle games with no problem. This leaves three possibilities:

1. The Oracle games feature the Princess Zelda from A Link to the Past and star the Link from A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening, taking place chronologically between the two games.
2. The Oracle games star the Link from Link's Awakening and retroactively cut the ties Link's Awakening originally had with A Link to the Past. This could be because the developers of the Oracle games wanted all of the Game Boy and Game Boy Color Zelda games to feature one unique Link who does not star in Zelda games on other consoles.
3. The Oracle games do not star the Link from Link's Awakening and the ending sequence was a coincidence or a mistake.

It should be noted though that in the two Oracle games Princess Zelda does not seem to be familiar with Link and has to introduce herself to him, whereas they had already met in A Link to the Past where Link saved her and Hyrule from the clutches of evil. Furthermore, it can be inferred from dialogue in A Link to The Past that Zelda already knows link in that game, perhaps placing Link's Awakening before A Link to the Past, and the Oracle duology before it, with Ganon requiring reviving due to his death in 2003's The Wind Waker

Also of note is that whilst Link shares the same design in the official artwork of both A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening, the Link of the two Oracle games has a slightly different clothing design in the official artwork. They do however all share the same design of shield in the official artwork, which only features in these three Zelda games.

Curiously, in the Game Boy Advance version of The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, only one sprite was altered from the original version; the witch's assistant was changed drastically in order to resemble Maple - the assistant of the witch named Syrup in the two Oracle games. This may or may not provide a clue as to when the two Oracle games take place chronologically.

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords was a bonus multi-player game included on the cartridge of the Game Boy Advance version of The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. The designs and art style used for Link and Zelda borrowed from the then yet to be released The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker game. The storyline to Four Swords was relatively simple but introduced two new important pieces of lore to the series; the Four Sword and the villain Vaati. In this game Link and Zelda were childhood friends, other than that little is known of what kind of time period this game takes place in, but it is generally assumed that this game introduced a new Link and Zelda, not featured in any previous games. Completing the game allows access to a bonus dungeon named Palace of the Four Sword in the other game on the cartridge, A Link to the Past. The Palace of the Four Sword could be found in the pyramid in the Dark World and was a new addition, not featured in the original version of A Link to the Past. In it Link must collect the four separated versions of the Four Sword and then battle four shadowy counterparts to unite the Four Sword once again.

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker firmly established itself as taking place many centuries after Ocarina of Time, making many big references to it, as well as a few small references to Majora's Mask, but also proved to be the most controversial game in the series when it came to the overall chronology. This was because it was seemingly irreconcilable with A Link to the Past. In A Link to the Past Ganon was still trapped in the Dark World after being sealed there centuries ago by Seven Sages (as later shown in Ocarina of Time). In The Wind Waker however Ganon is said to have escaped the seal by means unknown, which lead to the Gods flooding the whole of Hyrule and sealing it away from the world. Hyrule became but a faint memory carried by legend and the descendants of its royalty lived as normal people. By the end of the game it seemed as though Hyrule, Ganon and the Master Sword were gone forever. One could assume that The Wind Waker was the last game in the series chronologically and every other game, including A Link to the Past, happen long before it. However that leaves a lot of awkward problems as well, because only Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are referenced, as though none of the other games had happened. One of the most notable incidents of this is the situation with the Triforce; Ganon possesses the Triforce of Power and it is implied that he had kept it in his possession ever since he first obtained it in Ocarina of Time, the Triforce of Wisdom was passed down through the descendants of the Zelda from Ocarina of Time and it is implied that it never left the possession of the royal family in that time and finally the Triforce of Courage was said to have left the Hero of Time (Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask) when he embarked on another adventure and was split into eight pieces which the Link in The Wind Waker had to recover. With that in mind it seemed impossible for the events of the other games in the series to take place between Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker, they certainly couldn't take place before Ocarina of Time either and if they were to take place after The Wind Waker it would have left a very large gap and a lot of anomalies that couldn't be satisfactorily explained. This left a lot of fans divided on the issue, with the following possibilities proposed:

1. The Wind Waker occurs chronologically before A Link to the Past. Some time after The Wind Waker either Hyrule is recovered or a new Hyrule is founded, Ganon somehow recovers and ends up trapped in the Dark World again along with the Triforce and the Master Sword is recovered.
2. Every other Zelda game occurs chronologically between Ocarina of Time and Hyrule getting flooded whilst The Wind Waker occurs last chronologically. The legend of the Hero of Time is held on to more so than any other legend and the Triforce pieces somehow end up with the owners they belong to in The Wind Waker.
3. The Wind Waker takes place in a separate continuity from the rest of the series.
4. The Wind Waker takes place in an alternate timeline created when Link returned to his childhood at the end of Ocarina of Time.

The latter and most controversial theory originated from fans’ interpretations of an interview with Eiji Aonuma, the relevant extract is as follows:

Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?

Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well. Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from? Aonuma: From the end. Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a... Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina. Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.

[NOTE: The translator of the interview incorrectly opted for the interpretation of “one hundred” rather than “hundreds” as is evidenced in the game.]

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures was a sequel to the first Four Swords game, and like the original the character designs of Link and Zelda borrowed from The Wind Waker, but the rest of the game’s graphics borrowed heavily from A Link to the Past. The game took place an unspecified amount of time after the events of the first Four Swords game, leaving it uncertain as to whether or not it featured the same Link and Zelda from that game.

Four Swords Adventures’ place in the overall chronology of the series proved confusing because of its depiction of Ganon. In this game Ganondorf had only recently departed from the Gerudo tribe, who seem to have known of him since his birth. This seemed to conflict with the origin and history of Ganon shown in Ocarina of Time. Whilst it was very common in the Zelda series for different versions of characters to exist over many centuries, Ganon was the exception; in all of the games Ganon appeared in it was always the same character, unlike Link and Zelda. Four Swords Adventures seemed to present a new Ganondorf who had a different history with the Gerudo and sought after a different power.

Later in the game it was told that Ganondorf had taken a trident from an ancient pyramid. The inscription on the resting place of the trident read as follows:

"… … … Seek …you…the world? Seek you…power?

Does your…soul…despise Peace and… thirst for… More?

Does you soul…cry… For…destruction and… Conquest?

We…grant you… power to … ruin…the world. The power of…darkness.

Evil… spirit of Magic trident.

You are…the… King of Darkness."

Later in the game when Princess Zelda met the trident-wielding Ganon (in his pig form, the only one shown in the game play) she referred to him as an “ancient demon reborn”.

This knowledge of an evil creature named Ganon from long ago would seem to suggest that Four Swords Adventures chronologically takes place an unspecified amount of time after Ocarina of Time, as does the existence of the Dark World in Four Swords Adventures, which was known only as the Sacred Realm until Ganon tainted it with his evil in Ocarina of Time.

Ganon had previously wielded a trident in A Link to the Past, BS Zelda (a remake of the original The Legend of Zelda game) and both Oracle games. Some fans had theorised that the magic trident in Four Swords Adventures is the very same trident from the previous games and that the “evil spirit of magic trident” was the spirit and power of the original Ganondorf. They further theorised that the Gerudo named Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventures was a different one from the other games and that once he acquired the ancient trident he was imbued with the original Ganondorf’s spirit and power.

The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap was a prequel to Four Swords, chronologically taking place many generations before. If the Palace of the Four Sword dungeon in the Game Boy Advance version of A Link to the Past is to be taken as canon then The Minish Cap would have to predate that by generations also.

Regardless, the exact order of the games and how many timelines exist remains a mystery. However, Eiji Aonuma promised he will do his best to patch it all up and hopefully reveal the timeline someday, and Shigeru Miyamoto publicly stated there is a master document containing the timeline.

Other fans say that the chronology of the series should not be so rigid. Just as real-world legends are retold with different variations, each game could merely be a different retelling of the same story. With each advancement in videogame hardware and the ever-changing desires of the consumer, the base story of Link saving Zelda from Ganon and recovering the Triforce is embellished, modified, and out-right changed. Just like any other legend, The Legend of Zelda changes as it is retold through the years.

Either way, the creators have repeatedly insisted Zelda has a set timeline, but due to the poor translation protocols in the 1990s and the constant debate over what counts as being canon, the timeline at this moment is not known and it is unlikely anyone will know it anytime soon.

The upcoming Nintendo GameCube game, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess is said to take place a few decades after the Ocarina of Time

Enjoy!
 
Im still confuzzed... but intreagued. I'm curious though as to what you look foreward to when waiting for a new Zelda game. For me its the gadets you get to use.

Zelda isnt like other games, because you end up doing the same thing in practically every one. I know the story will be the same (gannon comes back, Link just cant do it can he? Zelda gets in trouble, Link defeats Gannon and rescues Zelda) and I know the basic gameplay remains unchanged with maybe one or two things tweaked.

Its just strange to me that anyone can get that excited over a new Zelda game because you pretty much know what you are in for. I know when waiting for a new MGS game I get excited because the story is always well done and fresh (even if totally confusing). I just dont get that with Zelda.

I mean, I know its fun because it does work, but to me at least, it's starting to get old. With this new Zelda I just see WW, but instead of a boat you have a wolf instead.

So anyways, what do you look foreward to about it? I'd just like to know because aside from graphics updates and minor things, there isnt much difference in the actual games.

-Ham :shock:
 
I've always been excited about the Zeldas for two things:

New, expansive worlds to explore.

New puzzles and enemies to overcome.

Those are the reasons I keep playing the zelda games, and keep going back to the old ones. Even now just riding around Hyrule on Epona in OoT is fun for me, just because even if it is only a N64 game, it was pretty.
 
See.. that's why MGS or Legacy of Cain or Suikoden doesn't get old really.. because each game is an "expansion" really. It does really nothing more than evolve the world which it is in. Evolve the people, the story, the places. Over all the style of play stays the same (which is still fun to play) but the story is what keeps me going. Just has Ham said.. Zelda doesn't excite me too much. I know what to expect.. a new MGS, Legacy of Cain, etc excites me because I know there'll be new additions to the story, new twists, new characters, even new places. A game like GTA or FF I except new characters, new stories, new places (and yet.. GTA still links with each other for an over all bigger story D: zomg!!). Zelda and Mario I never saw any real change or over all story.
 
I enjoy the new dungeons and puzzles the most but I'd have to say I very much look foreward to a new storyline.

The goal may be the same ina LoZ games but it's just like FF.

I mean really, all they're doing is telling the same story in different ways. Rag tag bunch of heros out to save the world, pretty basic storyline but it's all in the way you tell it.

Same goes for the LoZ series, WW had an incredible storyline.
 
Actually, my friend sent me some stuff on the revolution controller from ign. Apparently, Cubs(along with everyone else, but I forget your names and I') was completely wrong in saying that Nintendo was going to isolate third-party developers with this new controller.

According to this link:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651304p1.html
They've got developers like Ubisoft, THQ, Activision and Electronic Arts excited about the new technology.

There's another page with a transcript of the controller presentation that showed Hideo Kojima(Creator of the Metal Gear series) and the President of Square-Enix were both excited about making games for the new system. I can't find the video on their site at the moment, but as soon as I do, I'm posting the link. Either way, developers are obviously excited about the new technology and even if they weren't, they could still make games for the system using the same technology that sony and microsoft are using.

EDIT: I found the page, but it's not a transcript, but more of a breakdown of the events during the presentation. You can also check out the video on the page. The very last point on the page, right before the 3 pictures at the bottom, is "Praise for Revolution controller from Hideo Kojima and Square Enix." found here:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651320p1.html

Video:
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651383/vids_1.html
 
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