THE Election 2008 Megathread!

Who are you voting for?

  • McCain

    Votes: 31 26.3%
  • Obama

    Votes: 77 65.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 10 8.5%

  • Total voters
    118
  • Poll closed .
Your point was originally that it wouldn't effect the US as much as Europe. Are you changing your mind or what?

I also like how it's ok for America to overthrow democratically elected governments because they are left wing in nature.

My point originally was that our trading partners get the majority of their oil from the Middle East (this is especially true for Japan). A drop in Mideast production would not hurt us *as much* because we get most of our oil from Central/South America. It would still hurt us, though, because the shock to our trading partners' economies would soon reverberate in our own.

While some European countries (like the UK) might be able to be self-sufficient, not everyone has oil reserves large enough to meet their demand. There's a very good reason why the Middle East is the world's top supplier. This could change a bit depending on how the Caspian Sea or the Arctic oil reserves pan out, but not enough to compare to the vast reserves that Saudi has.

As to Operation Condor... yes, it was some dirty business. But again, I remind you that it was the picking of sides against the lesser of two evils. The Cuban Missile Crisis was still relatively fresh in the mind of the US Government at that time. A Communist South America was something we really did not need. Cast in that light, I can understand why we would have provided intel support in such an effort.
 
The American Conservative magazine endorses Ron Paul.

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http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_02_11/feature.html

The presidential fields of both parties have narrowed, and the arguments about how we should move forward are now familiar. TAC believes that only one candidate has put forth a diagnosis of America’s current ills and has a vision to turn the country off its misguided course. That is Congressman Ron Paul, whom we endorse for the Republican nomination.

On the key issue of foreign policy, the differences between the other Republican contenders can be measured in microdots. All remain enthusiastic supporters of the invasion of Iraq and of maintaining a presence there for years to come. All speak as if it is America’s right and duty to station its armed forces over much of the world. All have embraced neoconservative paranoia about the “threat” posed by Iran, setting the table for another war. All, that is, except Dr. Paul.

He is the one candidate who sees how the realities of world power have shifted since the 1990s, the one who recognizes that the time of unilateral American hegemony is over—and can’t be maintained even if it was in our interest to do so. He alone understands that the ever expanding federal government is a far greater threat to American liberty than some tinpot dictator in the Caucasus. By speaking about the benefits of smaller government and limited executive power, he has introduced a generation of young Americans to a more traditional and true style of conservatism—to the movement and the country’s benefit.

Ron Paul is a libertarian, and his stances are very much derived from that minor party tradition. To many, his ruminations about sound money seem academic—if oddly prescient. He was sounding the alarm about dollar devaluation long before the current panic and broke with libertarian orthodoxy to oppose injurious free-trade deals like NAFTA and CAFTA. Conservatives also find common cause with his 30-year pro-life voting record and commitment to ending birthright citizenship.

Paul came by his congressional nickname—“Dr. No”—honestly. Anyone combing through his lengthy record will find many lone stands and idealistic statements that ignore the maxim that politics is the art of the possible. We are under no illusion that he has much chance of winning the GOP nomination this election cycle.

Nevertheless we urge a vote for him. This campaign sends a signal to both parties that a significant number of Americans value their country’s great Constitution, that many conservatives reject wiretaps, waterboarding, and senseless wars. There is far more realism in Paul’s analysis than can be found in those Republicans who believe that Washington’s policy of borrowing billions from China to pay for the occupation of a growing number of countries is desirable, much less sustainable.

Ron Paul has been a breath of fresh air in an otherwise desultory Republican campaign. Long may he run.
 
http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2008/02/ron-paul-nation.html

Ron Paul National Delegate Count Now 42 or More
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 6, 2008

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – With the results of many of the “Super Tuesday” primaries and caucuses now finalized, the Ron Paul campaign is now projecting that it has at least 42 delegates to the national convention secured.

While much of the focus in yesterday’s Super Tuesday contests focused on preference poll numbers, Ron Paul caucus-goers were focused on securing delegates to the national convention. With dedicated supporters and an organization focused purely on securing delegates, the campaign has secured more delegates to the national convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul than caucus straw polls might otherwise suggest.

According to campaign projections, a minimum of 24 delegates were won in yesterday’s contests. When added to projected delegates coming from strong showings in Iowa (4), Nevada (8), Louisiana (3) and Maine (3), that brings the total delegate count to 42 delegates or more.

“Our goal has always been to walk into the national GOP convention with as many delegates as possible,” said Ron Paul 2008 campaign manager Lew Moore. “The number of delegates we won yesterday could very well be the difference in a Convention where no one has a first-ballot majority. With Dr. Paul’s home state of Texas coming up, we feel we can enter the convention with a substantial number of delegates.”

In an agreement first reported by West Virginia television station WSAZ, three Ron Paul delegates were secured through an agreement with the Mike Huckabee campaign at the West Virginia state convention early Tuesday. Ron Paul delegates to the state convention swung their sizable support to Huckabee – putting Huckabee over the top – in exchange for the delegates.

According to campaign projections from last night’s results at least 3 delegates were won in Alaska, 5 delegates were won in North Dakota, 9 delegates were won in Minnesota, and 4 delegates were won in Colorado.

Additionally the results of the Louisiana Caucus may still change in favor of Ron Paul, where an ongoing legal challenge may result in most of that state’s delegates going towards Ron Paul after state GOP officials violated their own rules to improperly put delegates from other campaigns on the ballots.
 
Multiple Choice Mitt dropped out. Someone console Celvantes...
 
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Don't worry Celv... were not going after dont ask dont tell
hunk1.jpg
 
well Romney dropped out, I have no one I want to vote for now. Screw Huckabee and McCain.
 
Team Hillary!
 
Well, all I can say is that there is no more place in the Republican Party for conservatives. I'd get mad at Huckabee, but even if all his supporters backed Romney, it still wouldn't have been enough to beat McCain.

And for the record, while I immensely respect John McCain as a military officer and a real war hero, I will never trust him as a politician. When it came time for him to stand his ground as a conservative Republican in the Senate, he sold out and he did it for no good reason that I could see.

I'm going to do something I thought I'd never, ever in my life do:

I'm going to vote for Obama in the primary (I'm from Washington State). McCain is all but assured. I don't like him, but he's better than the alternative. The important thing now is to stop Mrs. Clinton.

Depending on how McCain appeals to the conservative right, I may or may not vote for him in the general election. If he runs against Hillary, I'll definitely vote for him. But if he runs against Obama, I may vote for a Democrat. I'll have to get really really drunk to do it, but I'd rather an honest liberal run the country than a "progressive" Republican.
 
When it came time for him to stand his ground as a conservative Republican in the Senate, he sold out and he did it for no good reason that I could see.

If you're talking about the "Gang of 14" thing, it was to preserve the power of the Senate minority to impede the majority as needed. The rationale at the time was that Republicans were not going to be the majority forever, so it would be the height of foolishness to remove their ability to obstruct Democrat progress later because of Republican overconfidence now.

Considering how badly Karl Rove and George W. Bush have hobbled the Republican party for the next few years -- roughly twice as many people voted in the Dem primaries on Super Tuesday than Republicans, to give you a taste of how the general election might go down -- I'd say McCain made the right call.

One of my own senators, Robert Byrd, was in on that. Say what you want about him, but the man reveres the Senate and isn't going to see it hamstrung for the ideological purity of either side. I'm not pleased by some of the confirmations that went through because of them, but I understand why they did it.
 
If you're talking about the "Gang of 14" thing, it was to preserve the power of the Senate minority to impede the majority as needed. The rationale at the time was that Republicans were not going to be the majority forever, so it would be the height of foolishness to remove their ability to obstruct Democrat progress later because of Republican overconfidence now.

I disagree. The country was founded on the principle of majority rule with RESPECT to minority rights. This applies to both the congress AND the people it governs. However, in the last century, special interest groups have been shifting the focus almost all the way to minority rights and the entire concept of majority rule is (in my opinion) vanishing.

What do you have when any minority has more pull with government than the majority? You have the very type of government our founders were trying to avoid.

If any party, Republican or Democrat, wins enough seats in government by the will of the people, they should be able to pass whatever legislation they promised without any hinderance. The President's judicial nominees should have been given (according to law) a fair up or down vote with a 51% majority required for confirmation. Because of the threat of the Senate filibuster, that majority was effectively raised to the cloture minimum. McCain should have stood with the rest of the party and removed the precendent for filibuster on judicial nominees, but instead, he gave power to the opposing party that they hadn't won in the previous election.

Considering how badly Karl Rove and George W. Bush have hobbled the Republican party for the next few years -- roughly twice as many people voted in the Dem primaries on Super Tuesday than Republicans, to give you a taste of how the general election might go down -- I'd say McCain made the right call.

Which is exactly why conservatives don't like him. We want someone with the balls to say, no, democrats - this is the *right* way to do something, I'm not compromising. Every since Bush the First, Republicans have caved to Democratic pressure even when we held the majority, and the conservative base has hated them for it. The reverse has never been true. I'll say that about Pelosi. As much as I may personally despise her, she stands by her own principles and doesn't compromise.

I dislike the current President in some ways for the same reason. He's done the same thing on border security that his father did on taxes. His father at least had the excuse of a first-term president trying to get re-elected. Bush II has no such excuse.

And for the record, had I been old enough to vote in the 2000 primary, my candidate wouldn't have been Bush, it would have been Alan Keyes.

One of my own senators, Robert Byrd, was in on that. Say what you want about him, but the man reveres the Senate and isn't going to see it hamstrung for the ideological purity of either side. I'm not pleased by some of the confirmations that went through because of them, but I understand why they did it.

The ideological purity of either side is why they win votes - and the voters who support them want to see that take effect in government. So far, even with bulldogs like Newt, it hasn't happened.

Were I the RNC chair, I would have made sure that the Republican members participating in the Gang of 14 had signed their own political death warrent. I would have personally made sure that strong republican opponents were groomed in their own state, and I would have brought the full power of the party against them the next time their senate seat was up for grabs.
 
All that stuff I said about at least respecting John McCain for opposing the torture of prisoners... I take it back. He screwed that particular pooch today by voting against the Feinstein amendment.
 
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I normally dont like this guy but i thought that this was a fairly good rant.

 
Saw some isolationist discussion above - gonna show my ass and say I haven't kept up with this thread. However, I find it highly pertinent to the latest development in Kosovo.

Why on God's green Earth is president Bush, mind you republican, making statements so bold as to say Kosovo is an independent state? Does he not understand this policy Republicans are supposed to hold in high esteem? Does he not understand the need for the U.N. to make that address and not a unilateral police state? Granted, our membership in the U.N. also goes against isolationism.

It saddens me to see it, but Bush's response really validates the world view of America as a police force. Kosovo may want our support, but I fear the degrading relations with Russia are about to get far worse.
 
If you have been listening to any statements by putin lately it is fairly plain that the russians are starting to beat the drums against america.
 
If you have been listening to any statements by putin lately it is fairly plain that the russians are starting to beat the drums against america.

I know, and that worries me. However, Bush rhetoric probably not gonna alleviate tensions...
 
All that stuff I said about at least respecting John McCain for opposing the torture of prisoners... I take it back. He screwed that particular pooch today by voting against the Feinstein amendment.
McCain voted against the Feinstein amendment because there was alot more then just water-boarding on the table.
 
......I'm going to do something I thought I'd never, ever in my life do:

I'm going to vote for Obama.......stop Mrs. Clinton.....

You know what, I have had the very same thought. Except for the opposite candidate. Obama scares me, honestly. He stand for nothing, but the masses treat him like a rock star. He has charisma for sure, but no foundation from which to run on other then intangible concepts such as "change", and turning the US into a nanny state. Mrs. Clinton wants to also turn this country into a Nanny state, and thereby bankrupting it. Or taxing us into Sosialism in the process.

I may just find myself not voting for any candidate and (I dont want any retarded comments) find myself on my knees praying to God that the right candidate makes it into office on election day. I am seriously at my wits end on this topic since Romney dropped out.

In June of this year I am going to be re-enlisting into the Army on Indefinite Status, meaning Uncle Sam owns my ass until I retire. The current field of candidates makes me question the decision to do that, even though I am doing it anyway.
 
Texas Primaries coming up.
Apparently this is a "must-win" state for Clinton, according to Bill?
Good luck. You'll need it.
 
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