THE Election 2008 Megathread!

[Valcristiel]

What's up with Obama not wearing a flag pin last night? Says he loves America, but...I don't get it...

Damn this election is gonna be great. My sister, a democrat, already said she wasn't going to vote for Obama. She's definately going to vote for McCain now.

 

[Brightblade]

I personally think its a great move. Obama always said people don't want all the same tired politics of old white men running the country and bashes McCain for being in office forever. Then he goes and gets an old white man whos been in office forever, so McCain gets a very new governer woman that is very popular (albiet in Alaska) with an 80%+ favorable rating, and goes against some of the grain.
I also think she will take away a lot of those Hillary votes because not only is she a woman, but more of a down to earth woman. I dont think her anti-abortion stance is gonna matter to much with the women in this country who have children. Anyone with a brain know that the vice pres mosy likely (see: won't) even have a chance to change the law, and shes the mother of a special needs child, and women do act on emotion (but everyone already knows that), so that could help too.
I thought I'd be happy if he chose Romney, but Im very happy with her.

 

[Javir]

Great move by McCain. He'll pull some Hilary voters now. She has a lot of great views and she's accomplished a lot at an early age. It also hurts Obama's arguement about McCain saying he doesnt want to change. By getting a female, McCain is saying he wants "change" as well.

When she debates the hardass Joe Biden, she'll get even more support.

Honestly, I don't get the whole inexperienced stance people keep saying about her. People are talking like Obama has a lot of experience. The fact is, he doesnt either, and he's running for President, not VP.

Maybe, but man, there are a lot of women that are a lot more qualified I think. Her lack of experience bugs me. The pro-life thing does not bug me as his VP most likely would have been pro-life regardless.

I am dreading the upcomming election more and more every day....

I feel like this is sort of a move of desperation. I think Obama scared him last night and this is a knee-jerk reaction, albeit a tactical one, to the responce from the convention. What better way to split the Democrats again than to pick up what they started but could not finish(getting a woman in the white house).

Also she is pro-life, and that is not going to help her pick up many of the female voters that are so highly contested right now. If the democrats were smart they would pound that point into the ground.

*edit* I also love how he says that Barak is not experienced enough and he picks someone even younger and less experienced for his VP*

I admit I wouldn't have follows this thread if not for the recent announcement by McCain.

As an Alaskan (lived here over 15years), I've followed Palin's political career. Let me say that while I am as surprised as most, there is not a single politician that I am aware of, that I'd rather have than Sarah Palin. In Alaska she has maintained over an 80% acceptance rating for over two years. The longest of any US governors if I am to believe the news stories I've read prior to the presidential races beginning.

Gov. Palin beat out our last Governor handily as well a respected former Democrat Grovernor. And the same arguments were made "she doesn't have the experience". She went strait from a Mayor of a relatively small city (even for Alaska) to perhaps one of the best Governors for the state of Alaska. Her format for governor being one of transparent government and political reform for all parties, most especially the republican party. Everything she campaigned with she has done or made strong apparent pushes to accomplish.

While my vote hasn't been secured by either party with still two months to see what both sides will offer, this has obviously gotten McCain a lot of points with anyone who takes an honest look at Sarah Palin's reputation and the opinions of her fellow Alaskans. I can tell you nearly everyone I know or hear about is extremely excited about this prospect.

Can't promise I'll follow this threat much further, but I figured I would offer my opinion as an Alaskan to give you an idea of our perspective. National media was so caught off guard they seam to be pushing mostly the negative opinions out there.

 

[Hexx]

Anybody else not wickedly wild on McCain's choice for VP?

I honestly think he's gone and tossed himself in the oven after his choice for VP. Honestly, if he wanted a female running mate, there are MANY more better qualified candidates from which he could have picked from.

 

[Celvantes]

All I can say is, I am *very* impressed by what McCain's campaign has done. This is a brilliant strategic move. Almost all of Obama's thunder has been stolen both due to the timing and the nature of his VP announcement.

Take a look at the two speeches done by the candidates and their VPs during the introduction. When Biden accepted his appointment, 1/2 of his speech was swinging from Obama's nuts, and the other 1/2 was tearing down Bush.

I would like to remind the audience that President Bush is not running for office, nor is McCain a reincarnation of him. For those who can remember back to 2000, McCain ran in staunch opposition to Bush and had it not been for the vast Bush political machine, he would have won the nomination. Furthermore, McCain turned down a VP possibility before it was even offered. McCain is NOT Bush III, and isn't even remotely close to the man based on his voting record.

Back to what I was saying. Now look at Palin's speech. First, she recognizes McCain, as she should, but she quickly moves to a self-introduction, followed by what she believes in. Then, instead of tearing down the opposition, she offers up to everyone what she has done in the past, and what she plans to do in the future, followed with a simple message of hope and an open appeal to women voters.

Nothing bad about the Democratic Party. Nothing bad about Obama or Biden. And she even compliments Hillary Clinton. I'll respect any Republican who can do that without choking or shuddering violently.

Obama has become markedly negative in the past couple weeks, to include his acceptance speech. I think people are starting to notice.

McCain, in the meantime, has been a gentlemen, congratulating Obama on his nomination and not even making a single negative remark the day after the Democratic National Convention. Not to say that he hasn't slung mud in the past, but he's refraining from doing so now, depsite the Obama camp already releasing negative statements about Palin.

Finally, contrast Palin and Clinton. Forget the age difference and look instead at the way each woman comports herself in public.

When Palin took the stage, I saw a woman of power and grace. I had no choice but to respect her, simply because I was awed not only by the way she carried herself but by the story of her life and how she has taken her values and applied them to politics.

There aren't that many places outside Alaska where a politician can fight corruption, win, and come out unscathed in the public eye. Furthermore, few orators have the poise to deliver the speech she did without notes or teleprompter.

Mark my words: in 8 years, assuming McCain wins this election, we'll be seeing the inauguration of President Palin.

 

[Halifirien]

I don't think the choice helps him as much as they're hoping. It reeks of desperation. Making a grab for Clinton voters with a conservative woman who stands pretty much opposite of everything Hillary Clinton stands for strikes me as amazingly silly, along the lines of dangling a shiny object in front of women and praying they're too dumb to work out the differences between them because they have vaginas.

McCain has been campaigning for months on the idea that Obama is Too Inexperienced To Be President In A Time Of War™, but he chooses as his running mate a person with zero foreign policy experience. It makes McCain look like a confused asshole along the lines of "Yeah, all that shit I said was so important about being ready for the presidency... not so much."

At McCain's age, Palin would be a lot closer than one heartbeat away from the presidency if he won it... maybe half a heartbeat or even a quarter. He really wants to hand off Iraq, Iranian and Korean nukes and "We're all Georgians now" to Palin? I look forward to hearing where she stands on all those issues, and I look forward to seeing the GOP hearing about her because they seem to have been caught off guard by the choice.

 

[Celvantes]

The GoP has been raving about Palin ever since yesterday. Focus on the Family has already endorsed her through their spokesman Dr. Dobson and Huckabee had ample praise when he was interviewed about her.

As far as experience goes, she's had more executive experience in a governmental position than *any* of the other candidates on the ticket. As Governor of Alaska, she's had direct command over the Alaska National Guard. Part and parcel of that deal is that she has the power to decide whether or not to send her guard troops over to Iraq in support of the US Army. She's been to Iraq twice as a commander, and now, one of her own sons is about to deploy over there.

Furthermore, her state borders Russia, and it controls a large majority of this nation's energy resources. With the exception of Texas, there aren't any other states that better emulate the experience of running an entire country.

Between roughly 180 days of working in the Senate (Obama) and two years of running our nation's largest state, I think Palin wins out in experience.

 

[Aaleel]

I don't know how much her pick helps McCain. He picked someone out of the blue that he has only met once before. So what were the reasons for the pick? We all know, to get Clinton Supporters and undecided women, BUT,

If women see this as a transparent attempt to put up a token woman up to try and get their votes, they may find it an insult to their intelligence, to Palin herself, and to women in general. And may also resent Palin for allowing herself to be used.

Then add to that it undercuts his whole argument against Obama, which was pretty much all he was running on. I don't get the pick at all, It has a higher chance of blowing up on him than it does for helping him

 

[Halifirien]

Furthermore, her state borders Russia, and it controls a large majority of this nation's energy resources. With the exception of Texas, there aren't any other states that better emulate the experience of running an entire country.

I'm not sure I'd be eager to buy into that as an argument that she's somehow more prepared to run the entire country. One of the few bits of foreign policy experience Bush did his best to tout when he was first running for president was that Texas borders Mexico. She's running a state with a population roughly the size of Austin. It'll be fun to see how the investigation into her possible abuse of power plays out.

As far as executive experience goes, I wouldn't shortchange Obama's abilities from running his campaign. It's been tight and fiscally-disciplined (more than you can say for Palin's term as mayor, from everything I've read so far), laying the foundations for greater Democratic infrastructure that would help the party for years to come even if he doesn't win the election. I think Obama's only had to cut loose one of his closer advisors (the woman who referred to Hillary Clinton as a monster), where McCain has had multiple shake-ups until he finally ended up with the Bush/Rove people.

But it doesn't surprise me that Dobson over at Focus on the Anus and rest of the religious right loves Palin so much. She's as staunchly against abortion as McCain. She's one of the mealy-mouthed "teach the controversy" anti-science creationists, opposes stem cell research and is dead set against civil marriage for gay couples. Her presence on the ticket is to reassure the right-wingers that they really would getting four more years of the Bush experience if they throw in with McCain. If they keep trying hard enough, they can chip away at abortion and then start working on taking away contraception.

 

[Brightblade]

and is dead set against civil marriage for gay couples.

Shes against gay marrige but shes not anti-gay. "She also opposes same-sex marriage, but has often sympathised with the concerns of gay community about discrimination and has implemented legislation ensuring equal benefits for same-sex couples" (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4635147.ece)

She's one of the mealy-mouthed "teach the controversy" anti-science creationists.

I honestly don't see the issue. Its never been disproven, but the meer mention of any sort of creation, and its like you slaughtered a goat in a room full of children. But thats just my personal belief.

If they keep trying hard enough, they can chip away at abortion and then start working on taking away contraception.

That's a little harsh. I don't see anyone making abortion an issue in this election other then the fact that she could have had one, but didn't because she stands by what she believes. Unfortunately so does Obama, but he stands against flag and this country as far as I'm concerned.

The republicans want to take away abortion? The Dems want to take away my hard earned money and give to lazy mfers who dont/wont work. They want to take away peoples incentive to work hard so you can become something in this world, they want to make you reliant on gov't.
I'm gonna stop now...

 

[Sandria]

I've yet to make up my mind on who my vote will go towards. Even tho I was pro-Hillary, I"m not the type of woman to see a woman on the ballet and pencil in my yes without getting an idea on what she stands for/her experience, etc. I was very shocked by McCain's choice considering he attracks a lot of the more conservative votes. Be it a move of desperation or not, it will definately shake up the White House regardless to who wins.

Where I am, I don't actually get to see a lot of media on McCain-- but its been very play by play on Obama. And I've been able to see so much to get a soured opinion. My biggest problem with him is his lack of patriotism. I take pride in our flag and our red white and blue, and his lack of consideration for it disturbs me. Vets had to practically persuade him to wear one for the brief time that he did--and with all this change he speaks of.. I wouldnt be surprised if he takes the flags out of the White House. He's very sophisticated and would most likely make a wonderful motivational speaker or even a preacher.. but I don't see where he plans to cut taxes for 95% of americans with all the other obvious problems that we are currently faced with. Our public school system is turned into a joke and barely can afford to operate and teachers are turned into baby sitters. But they want to make it to where everyone has a chance to go to college... equal health care, etc.. Where is he going to find funds to work on getting our country weened off fuel or the other concerns he has on the ticket? Trust me when I say that what he plans to do sounds absolutely lovely, it just doesn't seem to be completely realistic. Taxes are not as bad as they are made out to be-- I'd much rather them increase taxes to accomidate health care fund things like FEMA and such that contributes to the many natural disasters and to fund our energy concerns/research. It just seems to me that when you make such wide promises that you're just playing the the role of the piper.

Then there are the issues of him preaching on women's rights, equal pay, equal jobs, etc but in my opinion when he didnt put Hillary on the ticket he made himself a bit of a hippocrite. That's not to say that his choice was bad.. it just means that McCain actually did what Obama preached about. Where as McCain could be a heart beat away from death, Obama's a shot away from being assassined. Death comes like a thief in the night even if McCain's age increases his odds. With us being at War, I would rather see someone more well rounded and more experienced-- and generally speaking with age comes wisdom. Even tho I am pro-choice, and will be voting in my state for gay marriage.. those are not my largest concerns at this state of our country. Despite Obama hitting my points of interest, I lack the trust in him to be willing to vote for him at this time.

 

[Halifirien]

I honestly don't see the issue. Its never been disproven, but the meer mention of any sort of creation, and its like you slaughtered a goat in a room full of children. But thats just my personal belief.

I don't care if people believe a god put us here, but I do care when they make decisions affecting science education which says conclusions drawn from hundreds of years of scientific experimentation and observation should be given equal weight with Christian mythology in a science classroom.

Who needs to muddy children's heads with stuff like how eyes or immune systems or bipedal motion evolved over millions of years when it's easier to say it's a result of magic? Always Christian magic, though. We wouldn't want to infect children with creation myths from Inuit tribes or voodoo or say maybe the Aztecs were right... 'cause if I'm reading your standards correctly, the jury is still out on those, too.

She ducked the question when directly asked if she believed evolution has happened, saying only that she believed in a creator. It's a garbage answer.

That's a little harsh. I don't see anyone making abortion an issue in this election other then the fact that she could have had one...

If you think abortion hasn't been an issue so far, you haven't been paying attention. There's been constant attacks from the anti-abortion crowd about Obama's votes on the issue during his time in the legislature. They say he approves of infanticide because he didn't support a bill that outlawed something that was already illegal simply because he recognized it as an attack on reproductive freedom.

I'm not arguing all Republicans are anti-abortion and anti-contraception, but the religious right members they constantly court as their "base" certainly are. Their outcry against HPV vaccines is a prime example, because they didn't think it was a good idea to remove the threat of cervical cancer because it might make women *gasp* want to have sex.

 

[Aaleel]

Abortion will be an issue for the simple fact that the next president is going to nominate 1 or 2 Supreme court justices and the ones that would leave are to the left. so more conservative judges will place laws or rulings in jeopardy.

As far as taxes. Someone is going to have to raise them. You can't keep wars going and keep cutting taxes, as well as keep running up all this debt, unless you're happy with a weak dollar and weak economy. I honestly can't think of another time that this has ever been done in our country. I'll probably have my taxes raised under Obama's plan, but the country can't keep running up this debt.

We're at a point where we can't cut rates because inflation is already getting bad, and we can't raise them because the economy would take a hit. One person is responsible for bringing us here, and anyone who thinks that the policies that got us here have for the most part been sound will not get my vote, I'm sorry.

 

[Draciot]

Abortion will be an issue for the simple fact that the next president is going to nominate 1 or 2 Supreme court justices and the ones that would leave are to the left. so more conservative judges will place laws or rulings in jeopardy.

As far as taxes. Someone is going to have to raise them. You can't keep wars going and keep cutting taxes, as well as keep running up all this debt, unless you're happy with a weak dollar and weak economy. I honestly can't think of another time that this has ever been done in our country. I'll probably have my taxes raised under Obama's plan, but the country can't keep running up this debt.

We're at a point where we can't cut rates because inflation is already getting bad, and we can't raise them because the economy would take a hit. One person is responsible for bringing us here, and anyone who thinks that the policies that got us here have for the most part been sound will not get my vote, I'm sorry.

Raising taxes won't help us. For a long term solution we must stop our rampant spending. It's out of control and someone has to put a stop to it.

 

[Halifirien]

As Governor of Alaska, she's had direct command over the Alaska National Guard. Part and parcel of that deal is that she has the power to decide whether or not to send her guard troops over to Iraq in support of the US Army. She's been to Iraq twice as a commander, and now, one of her own sons is about to deploy over there.

I completely forgot about this bit, but it's an absurd assertion. She's not directing troops any more than my governor, Joe Manchin, is. Witness this delightful bit of carnage:

 

[alanon]

Raising taxes won't help us. For a long term solution we must stop our rampant spending. It's out of control and someone has to put a stop to it.

This is the issue for me. I HATE both candidates. Obama's spending for social programs would reach new heights. I am not wealthy by any means, but I am smart with money and make good decisions. Call me greedy or evil or selfish or whatever but I am sick of the government having their fingers in my life and their hands in my pockets to pay for the constant mistakes that others make. I reserve the right to change my mind after the very important upcoming debates, but at this point I see myself voting against Obama.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I love political cartoons because they're so obviously biased, but sometimes they make me chuckle.

Still, as a young, first time voter I must go out there and weigh the facts between the two candidates!

Or take the easy way out and write-in Santa Claus.

 

[Draciot]

This is the issue for me. I HATE both candidates. Obama's spending for social programs would reach new heights. I am not wealthy by any means, but I am smart with money and make good decisions. Call me greedy or evil or selfish or whatever but I am sick of the government having their fingers in my life and their hands in my pockets to pay for the constant mistakes that others make. I reserve the right to change my mind after the very important upcoming debates, but at this point I see myself voting against Obama.

I hate Obama, but I only dislike McCain. For me this election epitomizes the term "lesser of two evils".

 

[Celvantes]

I love political cartoons because they're so obviously biased, but sometimes they make me chuckle.

Still, as a young, first time voter I must go out there and weigh the facts between the two candidates!

Or take the easy way out and write-in Santa Claus.

Regen: Defeated Communism by out-spending the Soviet Union. Cold War never happened. Create debt or sacrifice lives... hmm....

Oh, and he also oversaw the largest economic expansion this country has ever had. Virtually every blue chip stock today either started in the 80s or fully established themselves in the 80s.

Bush: Finished bringing down the wall, executed in 90 days a war that used to take 5 years. Kept 1/3 of the world's oil supply *out* of the hands of Saddam (you think oil prices are bad now...)

Clinton: Created budget surplus by, instead of doing something about our largest government expenditure (social security), raping the defense budget to the point where we're still recovering eight years later. Oh, and shit-ass tax and spend fiscal policy helped set *part* of the stage for the tech bubble that burst at the start of Bush's term. Oh, and let's not forget having bin Laden *literally* in the crosshairs of US Special Forces and refusing to give the kill order. Thanks, Bubba.

Bush II: Tax cuts created growth where there otherwise wouldn't have been anything, especially after being handed an economy already reeling from the tech bust and summarily flattened by 9/11. You think it's bad now? It would have been a lot worse had we maintained the Clinton tax system.

I'm not saying the Republicans who came before Slick Willy were perfect. EVERYONE from Truman on SHOULD have done something about social security. But it pisses me off when people give Clinton credit for a budget surplus when he did it the easy way by ripping apart the DoD's budget instead of kicking congress' ass to reign in pork-barrel spending. Or, you know, maybe addressing the 500 BILLION + we piss away every year into a system that DOESN'T WORK.

/rant.

 

[Aaleel]

You can't fund two wars and keep cutting taxes, I'm sorry, you just can't. And over spending isn't going to stop, if it hasn't by now with the number of Republican presidents we've had it's not going to.

People just must like having a weak dollar, I don't know.